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Topic: Li-ion Battery Life (Read 747 times) previous topic - next topic

Li-ion Battery Life

I know some of the forum members have upgraded the house batteries to li-ion.  I suppose all of you expect li-ion to last longer and maybe recoup the cost of the extra investment.  With any type of lead acid battery for long life the reasoning is to keep the batter fully charged and not discharge it below 50% or as little as possible and still have the battery serve a useful purpose.  Reading about li-ion battery life on the Battery University website, longer life is achieved by not fully charging the battery.  Some li-ion manufacturers may add electronics that prevent a full charge, even though the battery is considered to be fully charged.  I know the main battery in my Volt does that.  When the car is plugged in, even with the battery fully charged, the AC compressor may come on at a slow speed to cool the battery.  It did that yesterday when the temperature in the garage was about 85.  Maintaining the battery at about 50% SOC also extends the life of the battery.  I have only done this a few times when we were away for more than 2 weeks. 
Edit: I should have allowed only one voting option.  Tried to change it but could not.  Only one vote please.
Jerry Whiteaker former owner 96 U270  36' #4831 Austin,TX-Owner Mods LCD TV w/front cabinet rebuild - LCD TV bedroom - Dual Central AC, either can cool coach w 30 amp - Skylights at roof AC openings - Drop ceiling for ducting of AC - Shower skylight white gelcoat/wood/epoxy frame - Air Springs/Shocks replaced - 2014 CRV - 8K Home Solar - Chevy Volt

Re: Li-ion Battery Life

Reply #1 –
The knee is very important in charging and discharging

14.4v no higher

Depending on battery specs 10v is usually cut off .. and that is low

When not in use for long periods of time( haven't heard what LONG  is yet) 50% or a I have read 13v

Re: Li-ion Battery Life

Reply #2 –
Elon Musk responded to Model 3  owners last year when asked about battery charging.
He said the different size batteries in the Mod 3 [as opposed to the other models] support a different charging profile. He recommends charging to 90% every day, or when possible, and charging to 100% and discharging to 0% once a month, although some suspect this part is more to keep the "miles left per charge" number accurate and balance the cells.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5t1YOHQhlc
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Li-ion Battery Life

Reply #3 –
Mine was setup  by AM solar and so far I have not messed with it. I would PREFER to keep them at 80% most of the time, and not discharge them below say 30% most of the time, but haven't yet messed with the settings, so, right now they usually stay at 100%. Which I know is not the best way to store them. But in the end, I don't think it will matter to much, so I don't worry about them.
I guess I trust in Victron energy management to keep them ok.
I have taken them down once to where the BMS shut them down, running the AC when I thought the coach was plugged in but I forgot to set the transfer switch to shore....  but that's a different story. As  we all know, better to use these things then let them sit.
'99 U320 40 WTFE
Build #5462,
1500 Watts Solar 600 amp Victron lithium
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Hemi
Instagram bobfnbw
Retired

Re: Li-ion Battery Life

Reply #4 –
Jerry,
I have 600 AH of LiFePO4 Battle Born GC2 batteries in my coach. 
Here is what Battle Born said in a phone call this morning:
  Their batteries are good for 3000-5000 cycles.
  They consider a cycle 100% SOC to 0% SOC.
  If you discharge from 100% SOC to 50% SOC and recharge to 100% SOC they consider that 1/2 cycle.
  Charging to 100% SOC every day is no problem no matter where you start.
  Charging from any SOC to another is OK.  No memory issues.  So 40% SOC to 80% SOC is fine.
  Partial cycles (100% to 50% and back to 100%) tend to get more total cycles.
  Charge according to their recommendations.
 
  Their minimum ambient cold temp spec is <25 degrees F for charging batteries not in use.
  Adding self powered heating pads (36 watts per battery) as I did will practically remove that lower limit.
  Batteries in use generate internal heat which will practically remove that lower limit.

  If one was going to be where battery temperatures are >135 degrees F they suggest air conditioning the battery space and providing better ventilation.

My solar will get them to 100% almost every day especially in the summer. 

When you consider that each day might be 60% of a cycle, even 3000 cycles gets you 5,000 days of use full time.  That is 13 years. Best case scenario perhaps.  But that is easily two sets of AGM or GEL batteries.  $ per useful amp hr per year of expected life and LiFePO4 batteries start looking pretty good.  I expect to never have to replace house batteries again.
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN

Re: Li-ion Battery Life

Reply #5 –
Agree with Roger The BMS built into each battery makes it almost impossible to damage a battery.
Perhaps that"s why Battle Born can give you a full 10 year replacement warranty.
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Li-ion Battery Life

Reply #6 –
Is LiFePO4 the same as Li-ion?
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Li-ion Battery Life

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
Is LiFePO4 the same as Li-ion?


LiFePO4. Individual LiFePO4 cells have a nominal voltage of about 3.2V or 3.3V. ... So lithium iron phosphate battery packs with the same capacity of a lithium ion cell, will be larger, as it requires more cells in parallel to achieve the same capacity

The practical difference between Lithium batteries and Lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries is that most Lithium batteries are not rechargeable but Li-ion batteries are rechargeable. From a chemical standpoint Lithium batteries use lithium in it's pure metallic form.

Lithium-Cobalt-Oxide (LiCoO2 ) characteristics:
A lithium-iron battery is also a rechargeable type of battery but made with lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) as the cathode material. While lithium-iron is a newer version in the lithium battery family, its anodes are also made up of carbon in batteries.

Pulled from the Entraweb

Re: Li-ion Battery Life

Reply #8 –
There are many types of Lithium Ion batteries. LiFePO4 is the iron- phosphate type that is very Jim
Jim Frerichs
2002 U320 42'

Re: Li-ion Battery Life

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
Is LiFePO4 the same as Li-ion?
Short answer is yes.  Many different types of li-ion batteries with the composition of the chemicals being the main difference.  LiFePO4 is considered to be one of the safer types.  Other chemistries may store more power, but are not as safe.  Life of the battery may also vary according to what it made of.  It's complicated.  Boeing went with a high energy type on the 787 that caught fire a couple of times, but fortunately did not cause a crash.  Cell phone and lap top companies have had similar problems.
Jerry Whiteaker former owner 96 U270  36' #4831 Austin,TX-Owner Mods LCD TV w/front cabinet rebuild - LCD TV bedroom - Dual Central AC, either can cool coach w 30 amp - Skylights at roof AC openings - Drop ceiling for ducting of AC - Shower skylight white gelcoat/wood/epoxy frame - Air Springs/Shocks replaced - 2014 CRV - 8K Home Solar - Chevy Volt
 

Re: Li-ion Battery Life

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
Is LiFePO4 the same as Li-ion?
Well I would say no they're not the same. They do have some similarities. Lithium ion and lithium iron share the fact that they both have lithium in the battery but the energy densities are different. The lithium iron phosphate battery has a much lower energy density which is wider safer the no lithium ion battery. Why we use a lithium iron battery at my coach oh, I would never use a lithium ion battery do to the safety issues.
'99 U320 40 WTFE
Build #5462,
1500 Watts Solar 600 amp Victron lithium
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Hemi
Instagram bobfnbw
Retired