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Topic: 8D AGM East Penn Bulk charge rate setting (Read 1068 times) previous topic - next topic

8D AGM East Penn Bulk charge rate setting

I'm unable to translate the "30 %..... or 6 times....." from the following attachment from East Penn for what bulk charge at.

Can someone please help translate these instructions for me to set the bulk charge parameter on my 250ah AGM  8D's in my solar controller and my charger/inverter.

Now I am using 14.4 for Bulk and Eqlz., 14.1for Absorption, 13.5 for Float.

I'm using an adjustable with temp sensing Xantrex SW 2012 100 amp charger and adjustable Victron 150/85 TR Solar Charger.

Attachment is document from East Penn.

East Penn Solar Renewable Energy Charging Parameters
97 U295 40, Build #5040, 6C8.3 325 HP
Oregon Continuous Traveler
Samsung Residential #RF20HFENBSR,
Xantrex SW2012, (3)AGM8D Hse, (2)AGM Grp24 Eng, Victron BMV-712, 1800w Solar 4 LG & 2 Sunpower
Extreme Full Body Pt w/hdlmps, new furn/floor, 4 down Lexus 2004 GX470 AWD curb weight 4,740 lbs
Prev: 1990 Barth, 10L 300 2 yrs; 91&92 Monaco Signature, 10 yrs, 10L C 300 &  6C8.3 300; 1997 ForeT 6C8.3 325 since May 2017.  Employed by Guaranty RV 14+ yrs.  Former VW New Car Dlr/Service Dlr, Sales Mgr, Rv Sales, and Service Adviser from 1968-2017
"Don't criticize what you can't understand" Bob Dylan

Re: 8D AGM East Penn Bulk charge rate setting

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Jack Lewis –
Can someone please help translate these instructions for me to set the bulk charge parameter on my 250ah AGM  8D's in my solar controller and my charger/inverter.  I'm unable to translate the "30 %..... or 6 times.....".

Up to now I've used 14.4 for bulk and absorption settings.  13.5 for float.

Attachment is document from East Penn.

East Penn Solar Renewable Energy Charging Parameters

Lead acid battery numbers are somewhat "soft."  All you need to read on the East Penn document are the 12V constant voltage figures.  I am assuming of course that you are running the 12V batteries in parallel for 12V.

If you have a three stage charger use14.4V for Bulk or Fast charging, your charger will reduce voltage to keep the amount of current it can deliver in check.  Maximum time 4 hours.

Use 13.6V for the absorption charge or 13.5. Maximum time 36 - 48 hours.

If you have this option, 13.2V for float.  This is just enough voltage to keep the battery from self discharging.

If you want to fine tune this, I can go into more detail. But this will get you started.
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: 8D AGM East Penn Bulk charge rate setting

Reply #2 –
I use the settings that Old toolmaker uses, on my East Penn AGMS. If your charger has a temp sensor your float voltage will vary slightly depending on the ambient temp.
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: 8D AGM East Penn Bulk charge rate setting

Reply #3 –
East penn requires a battery temp  monitoring for their batteries,  my 97's freedom 25 was too early of a serial number to be able to hook one up.

Changed to a newer full sine wave unit.

All the voltages and times are then automatically set if you add a magnum me-arc control panel.

No way to get the settings correct unless you manually change the settings constantly as the battery temps change.

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: 8D AGM East Penn Bulk charge rate setting

Reply #4 –
Quote from: bbeane –
I use the settings that Old toolmaker uses, on my East Penn AGMS. If your charger has a temp sensor your float voltage will vary slightly depending on the ambient temp.
My partner of some 30 years insists that I cite my sources.  Always.

This is the way my Progressive Dynamics 9260 is (fixed) programmed, and it kept a used set of Deka deep cycle batteries alive for 8 years.  The most I ever did was check to see if it was on bulk mode when I started the generator and push the button if it wasn't.

As I've said before our U225 came with a PD 9160 and when I realized it was stuck on 13.6V I added the Charge Wizard to give it the automatic capabilities of the PD 9260.

We have a simple Foretravel, live a simple life and all we envision added are a couple of local inverters for the DVD player, LCD TV and the NTSC converter for the original equipment TV.
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: 8D AGM East Penn Bulk charge rate setting

Reply #5 –
Quote from: bbeane –
I use the settings that Old toolmaker uses, on my East Penn AGMS. If your charger has a temp sensor your float voltage will vary slightly depending on the ambient temp.
Bruce,

I think the temp sensor comes into play mostly for bulk charging. While charging the battery heats up from all the excited electrons moving around. The issue is that if they get too hot it can break down the electrolyte and cause a short. This is especially bad in a gel or agm where the electrolyte is fixed in place. A wet cell can take much more heat since the water based electrolyte can circulate due to convection to prevent a hot spot. This is why wet cells can be charged a higher rate than gels or agms. The temp sensor cuts back the voltage as the battery warms to prevent this. When you do get a short... even if it's only a micron wide it will leak electrons across. Now the next time you are in charge phase the electrons will take the easiest path which will be across the short which will cause it to heat up again breaking down more electrolyte. Eventually you will have a  bad battery. :( At least this is how I imagine it working in my head. :)

BTW: I push 14.7 volts bulk into my wet cell batteries when boon docking on solar during winter when I have shorter days to charge. Think of volts as the pressure pushing amps into the batteries. Higher voltage means more amps in in less time at the price of more heat. In summer I dial it back to 14.4 since I have a longer charge day. I've started turning off my solar when I have 120v in a campground since I'm charging 24/7 it can be much more gentle. The solar with it's more aggressive profile was taking over during the day. 

Jack,

Since you have agms I'd use the 14.4 for bulk and 13.5 absorption and 13.2 on float. These are nice conservative numbers. If boondocking with solar you might want to bump these numbers a little. Do your research and access your risk/reward.

Edit: change absorption from 13.7 to 13.5.

see ya
ken



The selected media item is not currently available.ken & dori hathaway & Big Agnes
🍺1992 U300 GrandVilla WTBI #4150 FOT FBP 2011
✨6V-92TA DDEC Parlor Coach 350HP Series 92
🏁2011 Nissan XTerra Pro-4X

Re: 8D AGM East Penn Bulk charge rate setting

Reply #6 –
The battery temp monitoring system alters all the voltages.  Including float.

At 100 degrees at the battery the auto system might be close to 13 volts.

At zero degrees that same float voltage might be close to 14.

https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/sites/default/files/product/manual/64-0007%20Rev%20F%20%28MS%20Series%29_Web_0.pdf

Page 50 shows the needed chart if you want to temp charge your batteries.

The anecdotal life on non temp compensated charging is interesting.  More likely that a large increase in battery life would have occurred if the manufacturer required temp charging had been used.

My experience is that incorrect charging lowers the batteries capacity fairly quickly.

I prefer to maximize the "good" high capacity battery life as long as possible.

Using the old battery "boilers" single stage long ago the flooded cell "good" life was so short I changed out every battery in every used coach my store sold.

The multi stage helped.  The temp charging and multi stage and the auto settings have optimized the battery life.

The magnum me-arc has no "time" for any of the charge stages.  No "max." As needed.

You obviously can get by with the older non temp units if you manually alter the voltages if your temps change.

Hard to be perfect.  Less perfect. Shorter life. Quicker loss of capacity.  More gen run time.  More solar? More batteries?

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: 8D AGM East Penn Bulk charge rate setting

Reply #7 –
As I understand it both of the temp sensors (charger/lnverter, solar charger) control both the high charging and float voltage. Right now at 90+ mine are floating at 13.05 in lower temps 20-30s float will go as high as 13.50/60 volts. In the 70s 13.20. Personally I don't think temp sensors make much difference to my batteries as we don't stay in extreme temps for very long. Battery's are not as fragile as we believe they stand a good bit of abuse.
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country
 

Re: 8D AGM East Penn Bulk charge rate setting

Reply #8 –
Quote from: bbeane –
As I understand it both of the temp sensors (charger/lnverter, solar charger) control both the high charging and float voltage. Right now at 90+ mine are floating at 13.05 in lower temps 20-30s float will go as high as 13.50/60 volts. In the 70s 13.20. Personally I don't think temp sensors make much difference to my batteries as we don't stay in extreme temps for very long. Battery's are not as fragile as we believe they stand a good bit of abuse.
Even antique mechanical voltage regulators on automobiles vary the charge voltage according to temperature, but I agree that lead acid technology is fairly robust.  However Lithium Ion technology is temperature sensitive, sometimes critically so.
Going from one extreme to another, the tiny starting, lighting and ignition Li Ion batteries require warming at colder temperatures before they can deliver enough current for starting, so we run either the headlight or heated grips for 30 seconds on cold mornings.  At the other extreme Li Ion batteries burst into flames from thermal runaway.  That being said Li Ion batteries both accept and give up their electrons much faster then lead acid, which to be kind, are sluggish at both.
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.