Surge protectors

Topic: Surge protectors (Read 1640 times) previous topic - next topic

Surge protectors

May 20, 2020, 08:17:15 pm

Looking at portable ems with emergency power off (epo). Looking at progressive, surge guard and hughes. The down side to me on the progressive unit have to go outside to see what is happening. The down side to the hughes is the long tail might be a problem unless you tie it up but love the blue tooth. Hughes has a changeable module that is cheap to have as spare. Surge guard not much fault except not so weather resistant as the progressive unit. With the surge guard you can get a wireless module. All suggestions are appreciated.

PS. Didn't want hardwired unit because if failed would have to do wiring change to get power back ater fault taken care of.

Ken

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #1 – May 20, 2020, 08:46:31 pm

I've been very pleased with my Progressive 50amp ems - surge protector. It comes with a lifetime guarantee to the purchaser if you save yourreceipt. I don't think I've ever had to make a special trip to check it. If I did have a problem I'd go outside to have a look anyway.

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #2 – May 20, 2020, 08:58:30 pm

Having had a 'meltdown' from a bad pedestal that fried the cable connections and crawled into the ATS and almost set fire to the coach, I bought a $400.00 Progressive pedestal mount. Big deal walking back to see what happened; gonna have to do it anyhews! Progressive Industries EMS-PT50X

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #3 – May 20, 2020, 09:10:15 pm

I have used this since August 2019: The Hughes Autoformers PWD50-EPO, Power Watchdog. It has smart bluetooth, a user replaceable surge protector circuit, and EPO, emergency power off, witch gives you auto shutoff and restart after 90 seconds with either a low or a high voltage situation. Low voltage is 104 or lower, high is 132 or higher. This is the 50 Amp portable version.

Amazon.com: Hughes Autoformers PWD50-EPO Power Watchdog Smart Bluetooth...

This is the hardwired version.
Amazon.com: Hughes Autoformers PWD50-EPO-H Power Watchdog Smart Bluetooth...

It has worked flawlessly. Last year I had extended time in a site where every few days the power would cause the unit to throw a fault for low voltage, after a 90 seconds automatic restart all was up ang going just fine. The power company even replaced the supply transformer to the park, it though it did not fix the problem. They ended up saying it was a loose connection in the parks underground system.

So yes, I am totally satisfied with this portable unit. Especially like the bluetooth phone application. I also have the Progressive Industries hard wired unit between ATS and circuit breaker box to protect against both shore and generator issues.

There is no way for 100% protection against theft, however I have not heard of one being stolen. Just in case, I have a HD 3 ft security chain with the most secure Master lock. An electric cutting disk could cut this free easily, but would make a lot of noise. A security cable is no real security because a bolt cutter would enable it to be taken quietly.

If doing it over I would have purchased the hard wired Hughes unit for protection from generator and shore mounted between ATS and circuit breakers instead of Progressive Industries unit because of bluetooth app. No regrets with portable Hughes unit. I used the screeprint from my phone to show the faults I was getting to the rv park owner, it helped with credibility. By having a portable unit on shore pole you are protecting your entire shore power erupt including the wiring, plugs, ATS, etc. You do also need the interior one to protect from faulty generator voltage. By having both you double up by adding the joules capacity togeather for both units.

kpbowser, You say "Didn't want hardwired unit because if failed would have to do wiring change to get power back ater fault taken care of." This is not true as the hardwired units both from Hughes and Progressive reset, once you have proper voltage.
If you have a surge, then yes, you need to remove and replace.

If later you put a hard wired unit inside, to protect gen and shore power, I've enclosed below a pdf installation manual that tells you how to wire to protect from both gen and shore power.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uj65wh6jos0te11/ZX480%20%282%29.pdf?dl=0

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #4 – May 20, 2020, 09:14:12 pm

I second everything Jack stated. Been happy with our Hughes Autoformer Watchdog. Works great and being able to monitor the KW hrs used is nice as well.

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #5 – May 20, 2020, 09:45:13 pm

I still have our portable progressive EMS. Hard wired another one after the box to protect from either gen or shore power failures.

Plus added a hard wired Hughes Autoformer in the reel compartment. I used the Hughes bypass plug in the area so if it fails from a surge I can unplug it and replug the power cord into the coaches system bypassing the Autoformer.

Any surge would have to go through the Hughes first to knock out the progressive. Both have somewhat similar surge capacities as far as I know.

Not heard of a wired in progressive failure that could/ would require an emergency rewire which, of course, is a possibility.

Seen posts here about overvoltages from bad gen power boards many times. Decided that the whole coach protection was more needed than leaving the gen side unprotected versus that the hard wired progressive fails.

Like I said a Hughes in front of it. If I was really paranoid I could plug in the retained portable progressive first then the coaches systems with the Hughes and hardwired progressive.

Even paranoids have enemies.

Good info

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #6 – May 20, 2020, 10:44:45 pm

I found this short 20 minute explanation useful to give my friends that have questions about protecting their rv from low or high voltage. At the end he even explains the Progressive Industries unit and visually shows how to check a pedestal for low or high voltage, or to see if it is wired correctly. Remember, this is 110 V. If you do not feel qualified to do what he shows, hire an electrician.

https://youtu.be/z-ATOr25oxs

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #7 – May 21, 2020, 02:33:24 am

He carefully covers the 2020 NEC code restricting use of Autoformers.

He thought a internal max amp restriction maybe should have been incorporated. Breaker...

Mine is out of sight behind the glenndinning power reels hose storage bin.

My bypass plug is reachable around the rear side of the cord storage bin so I can bypass the Autoformer if rules state it's not useable for whatever reason.

Sitting both the Autoformer and the EMS outside the coach plugged in the power cord is a lot of money sitting out side.

Yea I used the cable lock. Medium security. Keep honest people honest I guess. Both units are water resistant. Supposedly.

Way better installed out of sight especially as the code change occurs........

Thanks to many here who posted their installations they did a while ago. Info was helpful.

Had my guru buddy replace my ATS with a much stronger unit as we wired in the Hughes and EMS and installed the blue seas M2 oled power panel where the old powerwatch meter was. With a bit of wiring work both sides of the coaches system are shown.

Unit has adjustable alarms if wanted.

Seems done. Now for silicone li-ion batteries I mentioned here a year or more ago. I said it was coming.

Need to load test with my adjustable load cells all the coaches batteries individually. 7 years old. We will see what we see.

Bet the house gels test very well as the amp hours used on the xantrex power watch gauge match the SOC voltage fairly closely.

I added the magnum shunt to the system which basically duplicates the Xantrex but on the Magnum screen.

Both are on the same panel as is the blue seas M2 dual circuit monitor. It shows hertz.

Need the source and $$$ on the silicone li-ion batteries

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #8 – May 21, 2020, 10:31:33 am

Thanks to all that replied. I welcome all suggestions as the way to go. I am going with the hughs portable for now then putting in a hardwired unit later. Hardwired unit maybe in gen bay.

Ken

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #9 – May 21, 2020, 11:39:58 am

Just ordered the Hughes pwd50 epo. haven't installed my power reel yet so I didn't put in my progressive EMS which I'll now put in between my manual transfer switch and the panel covering both shore power as well as the generator. I'll use to use as intended at the pedestal. This will replace a older model leftover by the previous owner which I never cared for. The LED lights went one lights up they all light up from inside making it difficult to see what actually is going on. maybe now I'll get my ass in gear and get that power reel installed..

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #10 – May 21, 2020, 11:43:52 am

Quote from: Caflashbob – May 20, 2020, 09:45:13 pm

Not heard of a wired in progressive failure that could/ would require an emergency rewire which, of course, is a possibility.

Had a failure while out this Winter with a HW50 Progressive in line after the ATS showing low voltage and shutting down when in fact AC power was clean and steady at 118 volts from the generator. Since we do not rely on AC power this wasn't deal breaker. Called tech support at Progressive he walked me through a voltage adjustment sequence with no change, decided it was a bad circuit board. To my surprise Progressive installed a jumper wire that was zip tied along with other wires to over ride the computer letting the voltage pass. So no emergency rewire just connecting a small jumper wire for an easy fix till we were home and could receive a new circuit board.

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #11 – May 21, 2020, 01:06:32 pm

Doug is that wire in all units ready to be used if needed?

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #12 – May 21, 2020, 01:22:05 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – May 21, 2020, 01:06:32 pm

Doug is that wire in all units ready to be used if needed?

Not sure on all units but on mine it's a blue 14 gauge wire with a female terminal hidden under the inbound connections. Connects to a open double male spade under the center line.

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #13 – May 21, 2020, 07:20:12 pm

Progressive Industries hard wired has a model with remote panel that will bypass unit if failure to force unit to close and stay closed. Competitor EPO hard wire does not have this bypass capability.

Even though some have not heard of theft of $400 outside plugged-in devices, thefts occur without being publicized.

The inside EMS meter is a big help by displaying in a common area like kitchen Amps, Volts on each leg and frequency, along with any fault codes.

Also hard wired EMS can protect from failing generator voltage regulators, something that protected our coach a few years ago.

A popular option is to use a 50-amp extension cord with female end in a locked compartment. Then plug in autoformer &/or portable EMS into the extension cord within the locked compartment. Then plug in a short 50-amp cable with a coach matching (SmartPlug or Hubble-type twist) female end. We made this short cable with a Lowe's dryer/stove top unit pigtail and have used it many times. It also keeps these expensive devices out of the weather, too.

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #14 – May 21, 2020, 11:12:22 pm

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – May 21, 2020, 07:20:12 pm

Progressive Industries hard wired has a model with remote panel that will bypass unit if failure to force unit to close and stay closed. Competitor EPO hard wire does not have this bypass capability.

The inside EMS meter is a big help by displaying in a common area like kitchen Amps, Volts on each leg and frequency, along with any fault codes.

I agree 100% with Barry and Cindy's above post. In this thread, Reply #3, I already expressed my preference for the Hughes Power Watchdog unit over the Progressive Industries unit and why, primarily the bluetooth app feature for ease of reading data, and the user replaceable $35 mosfet surge circuit board. I also stated I am using one from each manufacturer and why. I believe both manufacturers are putting out high quality, useful products, each with similar and each with different features.

When ordering on line make sure you are ordering the product you want, it is too easy to make a mistake, as each mfg has multiple models.

For instance the Progressive hard wired units that have a remote panel included, will be the EMS-HW50C and the EMS-HW30C.

The EMS-LCHW50C and the EMS-LCHW30C do not have a remote panel, instead of having a remote panel they have the display built in on the hardwired unit itself. These Progressive units cannot have a remote display, they do however have an optional "Remote Bypass" available for $25-$35.

From Progressive website.
"Q: Can I add a second remote display to the wired in models?
A: Yes, but only to the EMS-HW30C and EMS-HW50C models. An additional remote cannot be added to the LC-HW30 and LC-HW50 models."

So do your research, take your time, so you get equipment that meets your needs and expectations, not mine or others.

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #15 – June 09, 2020, 09:13:29 pm

I just ordered 2 Hardwired Hughes Power Watchdog for my coach. I will be installing one outside after the reel and one at the foot of the bed coming off of the transfer switch. The inside will give me extended shore coverage and generator coverage. We had the Progressive Industries hardwired unit outside in our wet bay for 7 years. We were very happy with it until it got fried from the inside of the coach. I'm looking forward to using the Bluetooth connection with the Hughes.
John M.

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #16 – June 10, 2020, 12:38:43 am

John, keep us informed. We also have two EMS like you for the same reasons.

I had a concern when the Hughs product came on the market with only one issue, how to bypass in case you want relay closed and the system says no, maybe from a fault with the unit.

PI-EMS has the bypass switch on the remote readout. I like the Watchdog. Wonder how two separate units will work with one smartphone.

We don't have a lot of information from Foretravel users of the Watchdog

Thanks,

Barry

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #17 – June 10, 2020, 01:24:49 am

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – June 10, 2020, 12:38:43 am

......I like the Watchdog. Wonder how two separate units will work with one smartphone.
We don't have a lot of information from Foretravel users of the Watchdog.

Two separate units will work fine. You name the Power Watchdog Smart Surge Protector + EPO (emergency power off) when you connect to the cell phone application. So you just name them with different names and connect to that unit, when you power up the application. When you access the cell application, it asks you if you want to connect, with 2 units it will ask you which one you want to connect to.

Last year I was in a park that every few days would go below the 104 volt turnoff voltage for less than 90 seconds. The outside Hughes unit would shut off, without tripping or showing a fault, on the PI unit I have wired between my ATS and circuit breaker panel. This was because my inverter would transfer to on in approx 20ms, and then approx 90 seconds later the Hughes unit always reconnected. Since this went on every few days with low power, the Hughes protecting my residential refrigerator, microwave, tv, etc., I have no problem saying I like the Hughes equipment.

I chose not to move rv sites. The power company even replaced the incoming power transformer with no change. They ultimately concluded the problem was most likely a loose underground connection. The owner of the park spent a lot of money with an electrical contractor, digging up various sections underground to no avail. The Hughes unit protected me flawlessly.

As far as not being able to bypass the unit, with the cost to replace all my AC appliances because of low or high voltage, I am hard pressed to think of a situation where I would want to bypass that protection. I do have the PI unit mounted between my ATS and circuit breaker panel. When it becomes convenient, I'll replace it with the Hughes unit as the bluetooth application makes monitoring so much easier.

My post from four months ago.
Help - NO shore power into coach

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #18 – June 14, 2020, 01:41:38 am

Thanks Jack for the 2 on 1 app answer.

Is there anyway to force a hardwired Hughs to close /bypass when it detects a fault, like the PI units have?

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #19 – June 14, 2020, 04:51:45 am

Barry and Cindy, no way to bypass that I know of. I can not think of a situation where I would want to chance a bypass after getting a fault.

If after 90 seconds the device gets proper voltage it resets to connect. As I said, that process was tested repeatedly during my stay for several months at a rv park that had an intermittent loose connection on the system every few days. The portable Hughes unit tripped, and then automatically reset, protecing and never once allowing my PI unit to show a fault. By doubling up on EMS protection, I have more than doubled the joules amount of protection against a surge, as they are then combined, and the Hughes unit has a little higher joules rating. That said, I still unplug when I can, during a lightning storm. I do not unplug during all storms.

If voltage is too low, or too high, or with another fault code, why would you want to bypass? If you think the unit is faulty, such as with blown mosfets from a power surge, then the Hughes unit has a user replaceable board, which I carry, available for $35. The PI unit has to be sent back to the mfg for free replacement to the original purchaser. (Thank you Doug W., I stand corrected, now you fill out an online form, provide proof of purchase, a picture of the internal contacts or portable plug, and they may decide to/or not send you a replacement.) If neutral shows over heating on contacts or portable plug, according to their website, it will not be replaced.

Warranty Claim Form | progressiveind

I think both the PI and the Hughes unit are excellent. I prefer the Hughes unit because of the bluetooth and the user replaceable mosfet, surge board. I use both the PI unit hard wired between ATS and circuit breaker panel to protect from shore and generator, and I have the Hughes portable Watchdog with emergency power off. When I ordered the PI unit the Hughes unit had just come out.

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #20 – June 14, 2020, 09:42:13 am

Quote from: Jack Lewis – June 14, 2020, 04:51:45 am

The PI unit has to be sent back to the mfg for free replacement to the original purchaser.

Progressive Industries just sent me a new replacement HW50 unit last week, just filled out their warranty form. They stated in their email no need to send the old unit back.

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #21 – June 15, 2020, 12:02:53 am

Jack,

Thanks for answering about Hughes bypass. Knew about no bypass when it first came out, and wondered if they made any changes.

No special reason to bypass, just that PI offers it, which puts a PI portable on par with PI hardwired, with same easy way to get electric if unit decides it does not want to close.

We have two PI hardwired and one time found about 130 volts causing PI hardwire to protect, where we decided to temporarily allow. That was the only time I saw little too high situation. Low voltage is more common.

But when gen volt reg started to fail our PI hardwire saved our bacon when voltage temporarily went up to 160. Nice part of PI was even though it opened the relay to turn breaker panel off, the PI display still showed the high voltage level, which was very good to know what was going on.

Barry

Re: Surge protectors

Reply #22 – June 18, 2020, 08:20:47 pm

Well, we recieved our 2 Hughes Power Watchdog and we were able to install and set them both up. Installation and programming was a breeze. As any bluetooth device, connectivity has its distance limitations. We were able to add both devices to the app and name them separately. Below is the pictures of the devices and their screens.
John M.

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