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Topic: HWH Active Air Gone wacky again.  (Read 746 times) previous topic - next topic

HWH Active Air Gone wacky again.

Not sure problem is related but drove in the rain Friday.  Sunday drove half way home and  then on the last part of the trip the right rear would air up to 100%  The Active Air status page would show the RR as HIGH.    When I would reboot system the rear will come down and after a time it will go back to 100% full. 

Last Thanksgiving on way home I had the same problem  it was the left side and of course going on trip it was raining.  Have used the coach a number of time in between, no rain, and no problem.  AA worked perfect.

After messing with the system I have figured out  that if I dump all of the air the Right Drive bags will start filling up after the dump leading me to believe that the valve is not shutting off.  The other problem is the AA should  be dumping the air with the sensor showing high which it not. 

I looked and the valves are way up in the underside and look like almost impossible to get to unless coach is over a pit. 

Waiting on HWH to help solve the AA problem  Does anyone know how the valves work and do you think the rain caused the valve to hang open with no power from AA.  In looking at the picture of the system I think they are different then the older coaches.

2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: HWH Active Air Gone wacky again.

Reply #1 –
Quote from: turbojack –
...do you think the rain caused the valve to hang open with no power from AA.
I know nothing about the AA system on your 2014 coach...however, there would seem to be a clear causal connection between driving in the rain and erratic system behavior.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: HWH Active Air Gone wacky again.

Reply #2 –
Studying the PDFs, it looks like Active air has normal raise and lower solenoids like older Foretravels, but replaces ride height valves and travel solenoid systems with a "high flow raise" valve and pressure transducers.

There is a note on the drawings that the "ground supply wires" (as an E.M. engineer, what the heck is "ground supply???") for the pressure transducers cannot be interchanged.

I think if I had to try and look into this myself while I wait for HWH, I'd make sure the ground connections for everything were clean and tight (and possibly coated with dielectric grease), since the system sounds sensitive to moisture.

FYI I did recently read on iRV2 that HWH has temporarily ceased Active Air installs due to loss of employees due to illness, primarily Covid-19  Active air install***suspended - iRV2 Forums  I don't know if that might also impact response time specifically on Active Air support.
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: HWH Active Air Gone wacky again.

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Michelle –
Studying the PDFs, it looks like Active air has normal raise and lower solenoids like older Foretravels, but replaces ride height valves and travel solenoid systems with a "high flow raise" valve and pressure transducers.

There is a note on the drawings that the "ground supply wires" (as an E.M. engineer, what the heck is "ground supply???") for the pressure transducers cannot be interchanged.

I think if I had to try and look into this myself while I wait for HWH, I'd make sure the ground connections for everything were clean and tight (and possibly coated with dielectric grease), since the system sounds sensitive to moisture.

FYI I did recently read on iRV2 that HWH has temporarily ceased Active Air installs due to loss of employees due to illness, primarily Covid-19  Active air install***suspended - iRV2 Forums  I don't know if that might also impact response time specifically on Active Air support.
  I believe the high flow raise are used when you are in a turn and the coach is trying to lean over where it puts air in the side bags to try and keep it level. 

The pressure transducers are just telling the system what the pressures in the bags are.  I believe that part is working correctly based on looking at the pressure page.  The below picture was taken before the problem sitting on the driveway after system went to travel height.

I don't know how the problem can be rain related since the height sensor seems to be reporting back to the control what it thinks and I agree when it says the coach is high the coach is high.
2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: HWH Active Air Gone wacky again.

Reply #4 –
This picture is the status page.  When AA thinks the location is correct height it will  say changing.  If High computer should let air out of the bags if low should put air in the bags.

The coach only has 3 height sensors.  1 Front connected to the sway bar in the middle of coach,  1 at each side of the drive axle.  The tags do not have any sensors.  The computer decides what the tags should have in them based on what the LR or RR sensor is showing.  There is also another page that tells you when the computer is supplying power to the different valves.  Problem is you need to be watching this page and the other page at the same time but you can not.
2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: HWH Active Air Gone wacky again.

Reply #5 –
Quote from: turbojack –
  I believe the high flow raise are used when you are in a turn and the coach is trying to lean over where it puts air in the side bags to try and keep it level. 

The pressure transducers are just telling the system what the pressures in the bags are.  I believe that part is working correctly based on looking at the pressure page. 

The thing that's weird is that there are no travel solenoids on the Active Air manifold.  There are raise, lower, and high flow raise solenoids (plus pressure transducers).

On a non-Active Air, there are raise, lower, and travel solenoids instead. 

That's why I interpreted it as the high flow + pressure transducers as a replacement for the travel solenoids.  They are the unique bits in that Active Air manifold drawing.  Perhaps they are on a separate manifold not shown?
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: HWH Active Air Gone wacky again.

Reply #6 –
Still have not heard back from Randy with HWH after leaving multiple messages, in 3rd week now.  Sent an email to a guy that worked for HWH that I got his information from IRV2, but he sent back that he was not allowed to give advice unless he talked to a tech first.

Got appointment set with FOT on June 28, soonest they could get me in. I have sent FOT an email with everything I have observed as to what system is doing and not doing.

Last night I started looking around under coach to see where the air manifold was located.  Found it in front of the drive axle.  I will have to drive up on blocks in order to get under the coach to check out the connector that I have in attached picture.  To me it looks like it is loose with the cap not even threaded on the threads. Could be good way for water to get in connection.  I was not able to get a picture of the other connection to see if that one looked the same.  Anyone know what this connection is to look like when tight?
2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: HWH Active Air Gone wacky again.

Reply #7 –
Closeup of the connection.
2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: HWH Active Air Gone wacky again.

Reply #8 –
FYI in the closeup pic, up at the top of the photo it looks like you can see a second one of those connectors...  but with the angle, you can't tell if you can see any threads on the second one or not.  If you can get a better shot maybe you can see if it's got the same thread "reveal" or not.
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: HWH Active Air Gone wacky again.

Reply #9 –
Looks like a typical aviation type cannon plug. Any unused hole will have a silicone plug pushed into it. They require pin release tools to remove a pin and wire assembly individually. Yes you can unscrew the barrel on the left. Appears to be assembled correctly. Typically there will be a witness line that is covered indicating that the plug is fulling tight that will show once you start removing plug. Once you have both half's separated look to see signs of corrosion also look for the pins and plugs are all at the same level. It's not uncommon to find a pin that the tech didn't seat correctly. If you find one try to push wire from back side of connector in. I use small smooth jaw needle nose. For that. New installation you actually feel them seat and lock. I have a set of the basic push removal tools at work I can send if you can figure out what style you have, but you will need replacement pins, male and female if you find a issue.
1 remove and inspect for corrosion
2 check for pushed pin
3 spray with electrical contact cleaner on inside once separated.
4 check backside for loose wire
5 be gentle
Scott

Re: HWH Active Air Gone wacky again.

Reply #10 –
Also attempt not to damage the anodized finish on the connector itself. Will become a point of future corrosion. We use padded canon plug pliers whenever possible. Also note if the face of the connector is a soft silicone or hard
Scott

Re: HWH Active Air Gone wacky again.

Reply #11 –
Drove to Mother Ship for 6/28 appointment.  AA worked perfect except for twice having to press the reset button. Once when going down the road teh tags only had about 5 lbs of air in them. Second time because drivers side drive axle was low.  Other then those two times all was good until I went to park and level.  I hit manual level and screen turned green.  Tried stop, reset, and home and screen would go back to green.  With the screen green there is no response from any button besides reset, stop, and home.  Tried shutting off engine, restart and same green screen.  We will see what happens tomorrow.
2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago
 

Re: HWH Active Air Gone wacky again.

Reply #12 –
Turns out the green screen was the HWH's version of Window blue screen of death.  Had to get a new dash display.  They checked out the wiring. James and I talked about replacing the valve solenoid  for the right rear since they were working properly.  He said if not broken don't fix it. So I agreed and bought two to have.  After 2.3 coach bucks got two hours away from Naco in the rain and AA started going wacky again.  Thought about turning around but wife was not feeling good so continued on home.  Below is what I wrote to Alan for them to try and figure out what is causing the problem.

As you are aware aprox. 2 hrs into trip home in the rain the right side drive started raising (leaking) again on it's own.  When it is doing this for some reason the computer will not let air out but will  go and open the raise valve for the tag thus both will be close to max air or at max.  While the computer is putting air in the RTag the status will be showing high and will not get off high. The status page that shows solenoid action is showing "off" for the Rdrive the whole time.  I tried James trick of raise and lowering but that did not work to try and clear the valve.  If the leaking one is the High Volume one I know of no way to manual activate it. 

This is now the third time it has done this during or after driving in the rain. What can cause a valve to start leaking after a rain?  If the coils are getting a constant hot and switched ground I could see a ground connection getting wet and thus putting power to the coil.

Before I head back up there and while the  system is acting up I want to go and put my volt meter on the two raise solenoid wire to see if one of them has 12 volts and causing them to be leaking air.  After doing that I will call and see if you can get us back in to repair or do more trouble shooting.

I am also wondering if the height control is getting wet and causing it to send signals to the computer and the computer does not know how to handle them, thus causing it to go wacky.

I will update when I find something out or problem gets solved.

2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago