Ride height valve to six pack functionality

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Ride height valve to six pack functionality

March 30, 2021, 07:13:13 pm

Could someone please explain the relationship between the ride height valve (front) and the six pack? The ride height valve is seemingly just controlling the air (on/off) to the six pack. So, when the ride-height arm turns the valve ON, air is delivered to the six pack to inflate the front bags, right? Does the air just pass straight through the manifold to the bags at that point or is there a solenoid on the manifold also controlling air to the bags?

I'm wondering if a solenoid could be momentarily sticking causing pressure loss when I hit bumps. If I understand the schematic correctly, if the ride height valve is functioning properly, that should cut air off to the six pack completely and thus eliminate the six pack as a possible suspect in this scenario?

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #1 – March 30, 2021, 07:55:54 pm

Quote from: Elliott – March 30, 2021, 07:13:13 pm

Does the air just pass straight through the manifold to the bags at that point...

Yes.

In "Travel" mode, the 6-pack is basically doing nothing.

When you are in "Travel" mode, the Travel solenoids on the 6-pack are open. Air passes (in both directions) from the Height Control valve, straight through the Travel solenoids and the 6-pack manifold passages, then out to the bags (and from the bags back to the Height Control valve).

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #2 – March 30, 2021, 07:57:32 pm

Your close, but have ride height valve backwards.

The 6 pack goes into bypass with the travel solenoids, and puts air to ride height valves. Then the coach becomes just like any other air ride system.

When you level, the ride height valve is locked out, and either raise or lower puts air into the bags as needed.

I had a raise valve leaking, and the coach would actually lower.

Chris

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #3 – March 30, 2021, 08:02:49 pm

Be careful, had a front valve go bad (solenoid quit), so it didn't air up correct. Hit a bump, and split my windshield top to bottom.
Chris

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #4 – March 30, 2021, 08:21:43 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – March 30, 2021, 07:55:54 pm

Air passes (in both directions) from the Height Control valve, straight through the Travel solenoids and the 6-pack manifold passages, then out to the bags (and from the bags back to the Height Control valve).

So is it then conceivable that when I hit a bump, it compresses the front bags and pushes air back past the ride height valve and it leaks out my leaky Norgren valve?

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #5 – March 30, 2021, 08:41:24 pm

Quote from: Elliott – March 30, 2021, 08:21:43 pm

So is it then conceivable that when I hit a bump, it compresses the front bags and pushes air back past the ride height valve and it leaks out my leaky Norgren valve?

I had a bad Norgen valve for step cover go bad, and coach would hardly air up. You can go under step area, and turn the regulator off to both valves (step and cover), to see what happens. This will take them out of the system.
Chris

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #6 – March 30, 2021, 10:00:05 pm

Quote from: Elliott – March 30, 2021, 08:21:43 pm

So is it then conceivable that when I hit a bump, it compresses the front bags and pushes air back past the ride height valve and it leaks out my leaky Norgren valve?

Doubtful. The ride height valve is a 2-way valve. Air can only travel through it one direction at a time. If the valve did happen to leak, the air would go out the exhaust port. It would not travel "backwards" past the height control valve to other devices "upstream" of the valve.

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #7 – March 31, 2021, 12:02:02 am

Quote from: Elliott – March 30, 2021, 08:21:43 pm

So is it then conceivable that when I hit a bump, it compresses the front bags and pushes air back past the ride height valve and it leaks out my leaky Norgren valve?

Great I've owned this coach 3 years I've traveled at least 10,000 miles to two countries during an epidemic and now I find out that I don't know what a norgren valve is. And that is all my coach ready to leak out my leaky air.

But on a more serious note, a shout out to all of you guys with more knowledge than me about some of this stuff that I learned from you. This is the place to learn about foretravels. I have a Instagram account that I add to on a regular basis and it goes to
Facebook. and I'm a member of the Facebook foretravel owners group. And I see people asking questions and I think why didn't they come here to ask that question or to look up the answer.
I don't know the answer to that. And don't really even want to know I guess but I appreciate the knowledge that is passed down in these forums so that we can keep these coaches running for as long as possible.
Guess I'll Google it.

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #8 – March 31, 2021, 05:19:37 am

Norgren is a brand name of an air regulator,good quality.

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #9 – March 31, 2021, 09:44:24 am

The Norgren valve is an electrically controlled 2 way air valve that make an air piston cylinder mover one way or the other. They are used to operate the air cylinders that make the step cover slide extend or retract and the front step to fold down or up. Air is supplied to a pressure regulator, the Norgren valve and the air cylinders from the front service tank after the Pressure Protection Valve.

This is the air schematic for my 2001 U320 single slide. Most parts are common to many coaches.

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #10 – March 31, 2021, 10:23:02 am

Quote from: Journey, Roam, Explore – March 31, 2021, 12:02:02 am

Great I've owned this coach 3 years I've traveled at least 10,000 miles to two countries during an epidemic and now I find out that I don't know what a norgren valve is.

That just means your coach has been less problematic than mine!

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #11 – March 31, 2021, 10:53:08 am

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – March 31, 2021, 09:44:24 am

The Norgren valve is an electrically controlled 2 way air valve that make an air piston cylinder mover one way or the other. They are used to operate the air cylinders that make the step cover slide extend or retract and the front step to fold down or up.

Roger's comment got me to thinking about how air pressure can be used to move the piston in an air cylinder.

As he noted, air pressure can be used to "push" a piston in and "push" it out. This requires an electric solenoid valve that can direct air pressure, as required, down two different air lines connected to the air cylinder.

There is a simpler way to achieve the same result. Use air pressure to move the piston in one direction and a spring to move it in the other direction. The air cylinder on the Bendix air throttle/cruise control system on our coach uses this method, which only requires one air line connected to the piston.

Why would a system designer pick one method over the other? Perhaps the Forum engineering gurus can shed some light?

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #12 – March 31, 2021, 11:09:35 am

Chuck, comparing 20+ years ago with today is challenging. You have to put yourself in the place of the designers 20 years ago and understand what was available then and what their objective were then. You and I are old enough to do that. My guess is with a two way air cylinder and a pressure regulator and a Norgren type valve they could control the rate at which the step cover slide moves If air pressure fails the cover stays where is is. With a spring you would have to over come the spring force and all the friction to extend the cover. If you lost air or exhausted it the cover would snap back without any control. Pretty much the same with the step itself.

At the time electric actuators might have been much more expensive or not as reliable. Over time the air cylinders, the Norgren valves and the pressure regulator leak or wear out. Electric actuators available today might be less trouble in the long run. I wonder what the new coaches today are using?

An NC 12v electric solenoid valve in the air supply line is an easy way to just turn off the leaks.

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #13 – March 31, 2021, 11:43:59 am

My brothers 2005 Monaco uses electric actuator for the step cover.

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #14 – March 31, 2021, 12:19:52 pm

Quote from: craneman – March 31, 2021, 11:43:59 am

My brothers 2005 Monaco uses electric actuator for the step cover.

Does it move the cover as quickly as the air cylinders on our coaches?

I like the idea of electric powered steps and covers. Would eliminate the hassles we have when our air pressure bleeds off and stuff stops working.

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #15 – March 31, 2021, 01:09:12 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – March 31, 2021, 12:19:52 pm

Does it move the cover as quickly as the air cylinders on our coaches?

I like the idea of electric powered steps and covers. Would eliminate the hassles we have when our air pressure bleeds off and stuff stops working.

Moves just as quick and stops both ways where it should. As they leave the coach for a short time they close the slide so the dog (very small) doesn't fall in the well.

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #16 – March 31, 2021, 04:15:33 pm

Linear actuators are plentiful these days. Find a nice waterproof one with appropriate ends and there you are.

PROGRESSIVE AUTOMATIONS Linear Electric Actuator 12V (18in. 33 lbs.) High...

Might actually be cheaper than a new pressure regulator, Norgren valve a and air cylinders

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Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #17 – March 31, 2021, 04:26:01 pm

I personally thought about using a simple small (Hong Kong Freight )compressor, dedicated to the step and slide cover. That way you could use them any time you want, even when heaven forbid you are low on air.

Compressor would activate with a separate switch. If I thought about it a while, might be able to have the compressor activate when the switch is activated.

I'm sure someone on here like Roger could dream that up.

Actually, I'am pretty sure I posted this plan a couple years ago.

Chris

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Ride height valve to six pack functionality

March 30, 2021, 07:13:13 pm

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #1 – March 30, 2021, 07:55:54 pm

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #2 – March 30, 2021, 07:57:32 pm

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #3 – March 30, 2021, 08:02:49 pm

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #4 – March 30, 2021, 08:21:43 pm

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #5 – March 30, 2021, 08:41:24 pm

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #6 – March 30, 2021, 10:00:05 pm

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #7 – March 31, 2021, 12:02:02 am

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #8 – March 31, 2021, 05:19:37 am

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #9 – March 31, 2021, 09:44:24 am

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #10 – March 31, 2021, 10:23:02 am

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #11 – March 31, 2021, 10:53:08 am

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #12 – March 31, 2021, 11:09:35 am

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #13 – March 31, 2021, 11:43:59 am

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #14 – March 31, 2021, 12:19:52 pm

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #15 – March 31, 2021, 01:09:12 pm

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #16 – March 31, 2021, 04:15:33 pm

Re: Ride height valve to six pack functionality

Reply #17 – March 31, 2021, 04:26:01 pm

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