Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Topic: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches. (Read 1004 times) previous topic - next topic

Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

October 13, 2020, 04:59:27 pm

And before I joined the forum I had never herd of Dunning...

I picked it up from Chuck& Jeannie's signature and had to google it.

But know I can prove with this example that I have much too high of an opinion of my technical expertise. Took the Coach to diesel mechanic that worked for years on Camping World large rigs, he serviced the Aquahot and ordered a part for the automatics water drain. We also found a generator belt that needed replacement.
Then discussed the logistics of replacing all the air bladders ( I am planning to do that before my first large trip) and got a quote from Les Schwaab for two Toyo steering tires. ( $ 1260) On these I need to evaluate further.

My philosophy is that I want to have a 17 year old coach, where the items that contribute mostly to breakdowns are updated to the newest state.

When he asked me is there anything else right now my answer was "the only thing I can think of right now are some inside 12V wall lamps, that did not work, surely I do not need a specialist for that, I own at least 3 electrical meters! And how difficult can it be to troubleshoot a lamp, anyway?" (Dunning-K raising its head)

Pic 1625 shows on of the two lamps in question, Pic 1623 shows the connection after I took it off. No voltage there. Pic 1624 is the topside of the port slide out, and to my surprise there were two more in built lamps I had not noticed before and also two switches, all deader than Dixie.

So, if all of these are on the same supply side, it is a feed problem and if the cable is damaged somewhere, that would explain it. After all, the cable is inside a moving slide out and I have no idea how to locate it without tearing into the wall, which I am not going to do. I looked at the 12V fuses, they are all looking fine, next I will measure continuity, my eyesight is not that great anymore.

If it is not a feed problem, then a switch or combination of switches is the culprit. What are the switches in Pic 1224 for?

I am quite sure that I will receive the tip from forum members that will solve this particular question.

Afterthought

I should have enrolled in an 48 month apprenticeship as a toolmaker ( the most demanding and respected of all apprenticeships in Germany in the 60's) before going to university for Mechanical Engineering, where only a 9 month practical pre-course was required.

But then Engineering has served me well, how else would a poor refugee kid from Germany end up in the US with two horses, four dogs, two cats, a money pit vineyard and now a Foretravel Coach.

Greetings

Klaus

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #1 – October 13, 2020, 05:47:43 pm

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia
Yes I must say very interesting If one is sure they are not subject to it. Must say it explains a lot of what happens in the world. At least my world.
Scott

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #2 – October 13, 2020, 05:50:15 pm

Quote from: dsd – October 13, 2020, 05:47:43 pm

Yes I must say very interesting If one is sure they are not subject to it.

I'm not......I'm almost positive of that.

I would know if I was...........right?

Or would I....

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #3 – October 13, 2020, 05:54:23 pm

Do you have your factory manuals with wiring diagrams? That is were I would start at the beginning of the circuit power supply
Working a similar problem my self on our coach
Scott

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #4 – October 13, 2020, 05:56:51 pm

Countless hours of entertainment on this subject Chuck. Certainly something I will recall after forgetting all the useless other crap. Lol
Scott

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #5 – October 13, 2020, 06:21:24 pm

Do you have the schematics in the owner's manual for your coach?

I have 6106's which is a few units before your 6145. Trying to recall where the electrical feeds a LR slide in a 2003....

12V breakers are in the basement, streetside. Ours was breaker #17 for those lights

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #6 – May 29, 2021, 01:40:58 am

I watched an episode of an extremely popular German TV show : "Tatort" tonight.

The episode played in the town of Muenster ( normally rarely makes the German news, but the treaty ending the 30 years war between the Lutherans and the Catholics was signed there in 1648) and portraits a bragging medical professor.

When he made a big mistake in the investigation, he referred to Chuck & Jeannie's Signature," ...Dunning- Krueger..."

We Forum members know what it means!

Regards

Klaus

Klaus

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #7 – May 29, 2021, 07:43:57 am

Quote from: kepeters – May 29, 2021, 01:40:58 am

When he made a big mistake in the investigation, he referred to Chuck & Jeannie's Signature," ...Dunning- Krueger..."

We Forum members know what it means!

Regards

Klaus

Klaus

Klaus, I have one question to ask, and I know that this may be obvious to one of your learning and achievements, but,

When you checked your electric lamps for 12VDC, What did you use for a ground reference? Did you use a wire that ran back to the battery?

Art

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #8 – May 29, 2021, 03:45:32 pm

Is the KD thing another pandemic?

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #9 – May 29, 2021, 04:30:21 pm

I now affectionately call that little stretch of off-roading I did near Sedona the Dunning-Kruger turn.

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #10 – May 29, 2021, 04:46:04 pm

Yes, very subtle pandemic. Unfortunately, not curable.

Münster was only 30 minutes north from my office in Dortmund. Pleasant city with lots of good cheese, University and all the bicycles that go with it.

Which "tatort?" Brilliant in house produced German PBS series. I had no idea what Notruf 110 was until I watched Bukow and König. It was always 112 to me.

Pierce

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #11 – May 29, 2021, 04:46:52 pm

Quote from: Elliott – May 29, 2021, 04:30:21 pm

I now affectionately call that little stretch of off-roading I did near Sedona the Dunning-Kruger turn.

None of us learn when everything is going smoothly, Elliott. To steal an image from the television series The West Wing, you ran into the wall full throttle and left an Elliott shaped hole in the wall.

Have you received approval for the front end alignment?

Regarding Klaus, after sleeping on what he's done, I realized he may have assumed that the ground was good, when all it is after all is said and done, is a steel and aluminum connection.

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #12 – May 29, 2021, 05:06:48 pm

Quote from: Old Toolmaker – May 29, 2021, 07:43:57 am

Klaus, I have one question to ask, and I know that this may be obvious to one of your learning and achievements, but,

When you checked your electric lamps for 12VDC, What did you use for a ground reference? Did you use a wire that ran back to the battery?

All of the lights that aren't working are in the LR slide, correct? In an '03, with the slide in, I think you can see the electrical bundle for the slide lights and dinette outlet if you look behind the end fanfold "curtain". I'm trying to see if I can find any photos.

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #13 – May 31, 2021, 10:12:55 am

Stupid question, but heck I'll throw it out there anyways. Is there a way to contact the manufacturer for assistance? Can you ask for a wiring diagram for that year coach? Just a thought. Best of luck.

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #14 – May 31, 2021, 10:12:34 pm

Quote from: Grey Wolff – May 31, 2021, 10:12:55 am

Stupid question, but heck I'll throw it out there anyways. Is there a way to contact the manufacturer for assistance? Can you ask for a wiring diagram for that year coach?

Not a stupid question at all. Foretravel does provide some schematics at a cost, and original owners' documents/manuals had some of the key ones as well.

I would expect in Klaus' specific case, he has the wiring diagram on the CD he got from the previous owner (and if anyone else wants the data, it's in the Media section here: )

https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=media;sa=album;in=590

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #15 – May 31, 2021, 11:33:46 pm

My recent post was in reference to Dunning - Kruger bias. not to the electrical connections in the slide.
As Michelle has said, I do have all the technical info I needed for this problem.

It turned out, the little black on-of switches on all my five identical wall lamps (see picture on the bottom of the wall mount plate) are just worn out, sometimes you have to press them many times and wiggle them and then , if lucky, they come on.

I read the number (with a strong magnifying glass) on the switch, and I found an electronic parts supply dealer, but he sells wholesale in a quantity of 1000.

I will just look for new 12 V wall lights, suggestions and pictures are welcome.

Regards

Klaus

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #16 – May 31, 2021, 11:48:59 pm

Try spraying them with contact cleaner sometimes that is all that is needed.

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #17 – June 01, 2021, 06:56:18 am

I believe that's the same switch as this:

RV Designer S751 10A 125V SPST 8" Lead Roof Vent Push Switch

Yours may be a different color. I had to replace all of my for the same symptoms that you describe.

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #18 – June 01, 2021, 11:34:42 am

I will share a funny with you guys, as you all will prolly relate to my situation, YES I will gladly accept any and all criticisms and will endure your quips and arrows sent my way. I thought my water heater element was bad/non functioning. I would turn the switch on after turning the water pump switch on and the propane switch on. But no hot water. The red light on the switch would stay on which in my previous RV meant the water heater was on and functioning. Well I went all winter thinking I would have to tear apart the water heater to replace the bad element. I was at a trail ride with many other RVers. One of them needed work on his hot water heater. He let me know when the tech was going to arrive. After working on my neighbor's water heater the tech came to look at mine. I had looked at the paper work on my hot water heater but the one in my RV did not resemble the one in the paper work in the least. The tech took one look at the hot water heater switch, then went out side to look at the hot water heater. He asked me to shut off the switch, then turn it back off again. I did this three times and then WHOOSH out of no where the hot water heater came on. He explained to me that sometimes an air pocket would develop in the line if the hot water heater was dormant for a few months. All I needed to do was turn the switch on and off a couple times to get it working. Although I was thankful the hot water heater didn't need servicing, it did make me feel foolish. I did look through all the documentation that came with the coach, there was nothing in it about this situation. I'm not ashamed to tell you I still have much to learn about RV life. I'm also not ashamed to share my ignorance with you as I'm sure there are many in the same boat I ride in.

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #19 – June 01, 2021, 02:37:18 pm

Quote from: Old Toolmaker – May 29, 2021, 04:46:52 pm

Have you received approval for the front end alignment?

I have. I don't want to derail this thread though so I'll post an update in mine shortly.

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #20 – June 01, 2021, 02:59:11 pm

Quote from: kepeters – May 31, 2021, 11:33:46 pm

I will just look for new 12 V wall lights, suggestions and pictures are welcome.

Most decorative interior RV wall lighting is made by Gustafson (owned by Patrick Industries) in Elkhart, Indiana.

etrailer has some https://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-RV_Lighting-sf-Interior_Light-pt-Wall_Light-pm-Gustafson_Lighting.aspx

Gustafson used to have a pretty extensive online catalog, but I can't seem to find it.

Re: Now I know I suffer from Dunning- Kruger bias or the story of light switches.

Reply #21 – June 01, 2021, 03:47:54 pm

Try ITC-RV for lighting.

Lighting Archives - ITC RV

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