Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

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Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

September 16, 2021, 08:01:02 pm

Driving up the Baker grade last weekend in 110* temps, I watched all the fluid temps like a hawk. Oil temp got into my "yellow" zone, so I was wonder if anyone has added or considered adding an auxiliary engine oil cooler. I know the stock one is a water to oil unit mounted on the block, but perhaps an air to oil unit could be added to help with temps a bit and add a little more volume to the system.

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #1 – September 16, 2021, 08:08:01 pm

What was the actual temperature? My oil temp monitor on the VSMpc is going red at 207 and needs to be reset to around 225. Oil temps can go higher than coolant temps with no problem.

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #2 – September 16, 2021, 08:15:08 pm

Higher oil temps also mean longer fast idle cool down to keep the oil from coking in the turbo. Unless you run synthetic.

Upper limit recommended from Cummins Quickserve: Maximum acceptable oil temperature: 280F <-- that's really hot!

Pierce

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #3 – September 16, 2021, 08:15:30 pm

That's one reason some of us use a Amsoil bypass filter,can be used with or without synthetic oil.

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #4 – September 16, 2021, 11:23:36 pm

Quote from: craneman – September 16, 2021, 08:08:01 pm

What was the actual temperature?

Based on Cummins info, 280* is the limit, so I've set VMSpc to show red at 275 and yellow at 250. This weekend I saw 240. Since the stock cooler is water to oil, it becomes a vicious cycle...as oil temp goes up, heat gets transferred to the coolant and eventually that's the limiting factor. At 220*F of coolant temp, the stop engine light comes on. I watched coolant temps in the 210-220 range for that long grade as well. I'm thinking anything to help bring down temps is a good thing.

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #5 – September 16, 2021, 11:32:08 pm

Quote from: WS6_Keith – September 16, 2021, 11:23:36 pm

Based on Cummins info, 280* is the limit, so I've set VMSpc to show red at 275 and yellow at 250. This weekend I saw 240. Since the stock cooler is water to oil, it becomes a vicious cycle...as oil temp goes up, heat gets transferred to the coolant and eventually that's the limiting factor. At 220*F of coolant temp, the stop engine light comes on. I watched coolant temps in the 210-220 range for that long grade as well. I'm thinking anything to help bring down temps is a good thing.

We went up that Baker grade last Sunday 104 in Baker at the time. Oil temp 214 coolant temp 203. I will get my oil yellow set at 115 and red at 130

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #6 – September 16, 2021, 11:56:09 pm

I have been setting oil temps to go to yellow at 215 and red higher. The Cummins tech folks told me the ISM internal oil cooler begins to cool when the oil gets to 225. I know some have been seeing higher oil temps so I started setting the yellow level to 215 in the last year. Make this change in the Parameter Editor for the Oil Temp gauge. Set high yellow to 215 and high red to 225 or higher if you are comfortable with that.

If your oil temps and coolant temps are high consider going to one gear lower. Maybe not quite as fast but higher rpms mean better cooling for everything. If you are running at engine loads close to 100% you need to downshift.

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #7 – September 17, 2021, 10:34:58 am

Quote from: craneman – September 16, 2021, 11:32:08 pm

We went up that Baker grade last Sunday 104 in Baker at the time. Oil temp 214 coolant temp 203. I will get my oil yellow set at 115 and red at 130

What was your speed up the grade? Do you set cruise or pedal it?

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – September 16, 2021, 11:56:09 pm

If your oil temps and coolant temps are high consider going to one gear lower. Maybe not quite as fast but higher rpms mean better cooling for everything. If you are running at engine loads close to 100% you need to downshift.

Pulling grades, I typically run in 5th or 4th depending on the speed. Hit the bottom of Baker at 70, in 5th this is about 1750rpm or so. I ran most of the way up the grade before pulling back to 1500rpm ish, around 55-60, where I downshifted to 4th to get the R's back in the higher teens. Coolant temp maintains pretty well, but oil temps just keep climbing.

So it sounds like no one has added an additional cooler. Roger mentions the stock cooler doesn't even go to work until 225, so an auxiliary air to oil would be working all the time and probably help things out. Does anyone know what the pump volume is? Need to make sure the aux cooler will flow enough GPM.

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #8 – September 17, 2021, 10:45:48 am

Quote from: John44 – September 16, 2021, 08:15:30 pm

That's one reason some of us use a Amsoil bypass filter,can be used with or without synthetic oil.

I have the Amsoil bypass setup. The addition of two large remote oil filters in addition to the engine oil filter does allow some additional cooling of the oil.
The added benefit of the extra oil filtration and synthetic oil ( Rotela T-6) helps lessen potential problems.

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #9 – September 17, 2021, 10:59:44 am

Quote from: WS6_Keith – September 17, 2021, 10:34:58 am

What was your speed up the grade? Do you set cruise or pedal it?

Started the grade at 60 which is as fast as I go in Cal. towing. Always in 5th towing in Ca. Left the cruise on until oil reached 110 then down shifted to 4th. Noticed that more rpm only affected coolant temp. not the oil temp. Now that I know from some reading that oil needs to get to 220 to burn off contaminants I won't worry about it any more as it never has got that hot yet.

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #10 – September 17, 2021, 11:43:27 am

Quote from: Lon and Cheryl – September 17, 2021, 10:45:48 am

I have the Amsoil bypass setup. The addition of two large remote oil filters in addition to the engine oil filter does allow some additional cooling of the oil.
The added benefit of the extra oil filtration and synthetic oil ( Rotela T-6) helps lessen potential problems.

Can you post a link to this setup please?

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #11 – September 17, 2021, 12:14:26 pm

I think oil temp seems closely related to engine load. I don't know this grade so it might be a long hard pull and tht is going to make oil temps go up. We have done a lot of mountain driving and never seen my oil temp get past 210 or 212. But I know every engine is different, driven differently, and has different operating characteristics. Best thing is to keep track of what your engine does and watch for variations outside of what is normal. With VMSpc set the yellow to come on just above high normal ranges for your engine. Set high red a bit beyond that. Yellow tells you you are just above your normal range, time to consider an operation change. Red should be definitely time to pay attention and do something now.

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #12 – September 17, 2021, 12:22:47 pm

Baker grade is like 19 miles long and generally you are running with the prevailing wind. Baker exists for the sole purpose of providing overpriced services to travelers. Also home to the worlds largest thermometer
Scott
Ref. Baker Grade
In just 19 miles Interstate 15 climbs steadily from Baker (exit 246), 960 ft. above sea level, to Halloran Summit Road (exit 265), at 4,130 ft.
World's tallest thermometer - Wikipedia

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #13 – September 17, 2021, 01:13:07 pm

Not too far from Baker is the Kelso Depot. It has been restored and has a large parking lot with BBQ and tables. Good spot to overnight. Double train tracks so on rare occasions, trains will be going by at the same time in the opposite direction. Google Maps

The Kelso Depot building is presently closed due to Covid and an AC failure so you can't go inside the building until next year.

Kelso Depot - Mojave National Preserve - DesertUSA

Map and my thermometer photo below.

Pierce

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #14 – September 17, 2021, 02:18:55 pm

Quote from: WS6_Keith – September 17, 2021, 11:43:27 am

Can you post a link to this setup please?

AMSOIL Dual-Gard™ Bypass Filter System

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #15 – September 17, 2021, 02:38:54 pm

Lon and other who may have this type of filter system installed. Did you notice a decrease in the black soot that turns the engine oil black? After reading Amsoil's literature claiming a 39% reduction in soot particles less than one micron, I would think that there would be a visible difference.

Pierce

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #16 – September 17, 2021, 02:41:57 pm

Wonder if we're trying to solve a non-problem.

These same engines are used in 80,000 pound trucks. They drive the same roads. Their engine loads and therefore oil temperatures HAVE to be higher than in an RV. Yet oil-related engine failures are extremely rate in either RV pr 18 wheeler applications.

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #17 – September 17, 2021, 03:11:35 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – September 17, 2021, 02:38:54 pm

Lon and other who may have this type of filter system installed. Did you notice a decrease in the black soot that turns the engine oil black? After reading Amsoil's literature claiming a 39% reduction in soot particles less than one micron, I would think that there would be a visible difference.

Pierce

The Amsoil system was on the coach when I bought it, I have no before and after to compare it to.
Each filter probably holds at least 1 1/2 quarts of oil. The Amsoil filter system circulates oil very slowly thus holding oil in the filters for a longer period of time compared to the engine filter. The exposed filters might dissipate heat but I don't know how much.

Follow-ups
- AC gasket install

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #18 – September 17, 2021, 03:28:27 pm

Oil does stay cleaner longer.

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #19 – September 17, 2021, 03:36:53 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – September 17, 2021, 02:41:57 pm

Wonder if we're trying to solve a non-problem.

These same engines are used in 80,000 pound trucks. They drive the same roads. Their engine loads and therefore oil temperatures HAVE to be higher than in an RV. Yet oil-related engine failures are extremely rate in either RV pr 18 wheeler applications.

Not sure it's a non-problem, but I'm all about being able to use all the power I have as long as I want to...and last weekend I had to back out of the throttle due to oil and coolant temps. So I'm looking to reduce oil temps, which will also help keep coolant temps down by not putting oil heat into the coolant as soon/often.

Those 80k trucks you talk about are the guys going 30 on that same grade, when I went by at 70...then 60...then 50.

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #20 – September 17, 2021, 03:41:46 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – September 17, 2021, 02:41:57 pm

Wonder if we're trying to solve a non-problem.

These same engines are used in 80,000 pound trucks. They drive the same roads. Their engine loads and therefore oil temperatures HAVE to be higher than in an RV. Yet oil-related engine failures are extremely rate in either RV pr 18 wheeler applications.

Exactly, but many trucks have timers so the oil gets a chance to cool before shutting down keeping turbo maintenance down. As Blackstone Labs said, mixing brands is not an issue as long as it meets the specs. And the least expensive Walmart oil meeting specs will not void any warranty.

Synthetic does extend cylinder wall/piston life, go further between changes and won't coke.

Pierce

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #21 – September 17, 2021, 04:00:57 pm

Quote from: WS6_Keith – September 17, 2021, 03:36:53 pm

Not sure it's a non-problem, but I'm all about being able to use all the power I have as long as I want to...and last weekend I had to back out of the throttle due to oil and coolant temps. So I'm looking to reduce oil temps, which will also help keep coolant temps down by not putting oil heat into the coolant as soon/often.

Those 80k trucks you talk about are the guys going 30 on that same grade, when I went by at 70...then 60...then 50.

What gears? Rpm is your friend.
Scott

Re: Has anyone considered an auxiliary engine oil cooler for an ISM?

Reply #22 – September 17, 2021, 06:31:56 pm

Quote from: dsd – September 17, 2021, 04:00:57 pm

What gears? Rpm is your friend.
Scott

See reply #7. 5th at 70 (1750 or so), then as speed fell and RPM got back to 1500 or so, dropped to 4th for 1800-1900rpm at 55 or so.

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