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Propane valve

Happy New Year 🎈
The 12 volt valve at the propane tank does not have power. Must it have power to open? If so where is the source? There is no gas coming out of the regulator.
Rick and Julie
Grand Villa
Build #4689
1995 4000 U280SE WTBI
8.3L 300HP Cummins

Re: Propane valve

Reply #1 –
If OE, it is powered by the the PROPANE SENSOR/SNIFFER.

Look near the floor in the kitchen.  It is powered by 12 VDC and then sends the "open" signal to the propane valve.

I do not recall if the signal is 12 VDC, and that may depend on the model of sensor/valve you have.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Propane valve

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Rick & Julie –
`1. Must it have power to open?
 2. If so where is the source?

Rick,
1. Yes
2. It should come off one of the manual reset breakers hid behind the fiberglass cover over the basement breaker panel. With it being a 95 I still think that is where it gets 12VDC power.

Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Propane valve

Reply #3 –
Your propane sniffer is most likely turned off.
1994 U280, Build 4490
Deming, NM.

Re: Propane valve

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Twig –
Your propane sniffer is most likely turned off.

Or, has died. They do have a finite life.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Propane valve

Reply #5 –
Our hard wired sniffer died and shut the propane off a few years ago. We disconnected/removed it and added a battery run propane detector near the floor in the kitchen. We change the battery annually.
1993 U300 40ft GV SE
Build # 4344

Re: Propane valve

Reply #6 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –
It is powered by 12 VDC and then sends the "open" signal to the propane valve.
I do not recall if the signal is 12 VDC, and that may depend on the model of sensor/valve you have.
According to Barry, the original stock detector sent a variable signal to the valve.  Full 12 volts to open the valve - lower (?) voltage to hold the valve open.  See Reply #3 in thread linked below:

Replacement LP/CO Detector

1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Propane valve

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
According to Barry, the original stock detector sent a variable signal to the valve.  Full 12 volts to open the valve - lower (?) voltage to hold the valve open.  See Reply #3 in thread linked below:

Replacement LP/CO Detector




Thanks, Chuck.

That is why I mentioned it.  Could very likely burn out the  solenoid if supplied with 12+ VDC full time.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Propane valve

Reply #8 –
Rick & Julie,

As you have read above, the safety valve on the propane tank can malfunction for several reasons.  At one time, the safety valve was required to secure the builder certification seal issued by the RVIA.  I don't know if this is still true.  Regardless, the valve can be a troublesome device which often malfunctions at the worst possible time.  Many Forum members (myself included) consider the valve unnecessary, and have disabled it or removed it altogether.  It is up to you to decide if you wish to go this route.

It is very easy to disable the safety valve.  You simply close the main propane tank valve, take the safety valve apart, and remove the sliding "pintle" (the spring-loaded metal piece that moves up - opens - in response to the solenoid coil).  With pintle and spring removed, reassemble the valve body, and open the main propane tank valve.  Check for leaks.  The valve will no longer cause any trouble.  The OEM wiring is undisturbed.  The (original stock) propane detector will think everything is OK and will still be happy (and functional).  EASY!  :thumbsup:

Like I said, entirely up to you.  DWMYH

1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Propane valve

Reply #9 –
And most new propane sniffers don't even have the hookup for a valve.
Nitehawk,  Demolition Lady, & our NEW master, Zippy the speeding BB cat.
1989 Grand Villa 36' ORED
Oshkosh chassis, 8.2 DD V8
2006 Saturn Vue AWD

Re: Propane valve

Reply #10 –
Thanks foreforum group for the many informative prompt responses. I removed the pintle. Gas flow is at it should be!
Rick and Julie
Grand Villa
Build #4689
1995 4000 U280SE WTBI
8.3L 300HP Cummins

Re: Propane valve

Reply #11 –
Still a good idea to have a working propane sniffer in the kitchen.

Did you determine the age of your propane sniffer (should  be a date code on the back of it)?
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Propane valve

Reply #12 –
Thanks Chuck for the idea to check & attach my hand written calculations & drawing from 20 years ago...
 
Old style propane hardwired detectors had option to shut off propane flow on alerts.  Newer detectors do not offer the option.  We later physically removed valve from propane output brass tubing.  With every false alarm killing propane and the long detector reset time, something had to be done...

I think that early days, RVIA or some other regulator required the safety shutoff.  Then later regs were changed to not require them.

To 'manually' force solenoid open all the time, it takes 12 volts DC to open and 2 volts DC to keep open.  Continuous 12 volts will overheat solenoid coil.  Before removing valve, I had a push-button switch to flow 12 volts to solenoid to open solenoid.  And a toggle switch to feed 12 volts through resistors to flow about 2 volts to solenoid to keep it open.

Years ago, we bought a Safe-T-Alert surface-mount 12 volt hardwired detector and mounted it below fridge.  Also found that the 20+ year old OEM propane detector still works so it is still in place.  Nice to  have redundancy.  Both propane detectors have a small toggle switch next to each detector that kills 12 volt power source.  I found that by killing power for a moment, it is a better way to reset a detector.  All alarms have been false, from running propane gas hot water tank, so a quick reset takes care of the alert sound.



Re: Propane valve

Reply #13 –
I have replaced both the gas detector and carbon monoxide detector last year. Neither one worked at the time. Of course the replacement did not have the additional wires for the valve.  I did not realize the detector worked in conjunction with the solenoid valve. I am going to research detectors that incorporate the solenoid valve. The marine industry may have them available.
Rick and Julie
Grand Villa
Build #4689
1995 4000 U280SE WTBI
8.3L 300HP Cummins
 

Re: Propane valve

Reply #14 –
You would wise to deal with propane solenoid valve bypass options: remove coil, 2-volt hold-open, remove valve. For about 15 years RVs have not used the shutoff valve.

Forum has all options recently mentioned...

For Carbon Monoxide (CO), we recommend common surface mount battery operated with digital display. We have always had two in bedroom on opposing walls, figuring redundancy may be a worthwhile purchase to help guarantee we do not wake up dead. Without a workable CO detector, a neighbor running a gasoline engine generator may allow odorless killer gas put one to sleep...