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Topic: Automatic Transfer Switch and EMS Surge Replaced - no Shore power in Coach (Read 837 times) previous topic - next topic

Automatic Transfer Switch and EMS Surge Replaced - no Shore power in Coach

Hi there, We have a 2007 Nimbus 336.  I tried looking this up on the forum but could not locate a similar issue.
 
About 2 weeks ago we had a strong electrical smell and determined that our Intellitec 803-400 ATS had a short so we had it replaced with a LYGHT ATS LPT50CA - at that point power was metered and all legs were working, but not the EMS.  So no power in the Coach.

Today we (Mike) replaced the EMS-HW50C and shore power passes through the EMS  but generator power does not.  Coach does not have power inside - we tried 50,30 and the generator.  We do not see any breakers that are popped on the inverter, and the breakers under the bed have been flipped and appear to be working.

Also the AC in light on the 3012 Inverter does not come on.

We are currently in Parker, AZ.

Any ideas for next steps to troubleshoot?

Thanks,
Kath & Mike
2007 Foretravel Nimbus 336
Toad 2022 Jeep Gladiator Overland edition

Re: Automatic Transfer Switch and EMS Surge Replaced - no Shore power in Coach

Reply #1 –
Not knowing your generator I thought I might ask a couple questions.
Are you sure power is coming out of the generator when it is running? Maybe a breaker on the generator itself needs to be reset?
Nitehawk,  Demolition Lady, & our NEW master, Zippy the speeding BB cat.
1989 Grand Villa 36' ORED
Oshkosh chassis, 8.2 DD V8
2006 Saturn Vue AWD

Re: Automatic Transfer Switch and EMS Surge Replaced - no Shore power in Coach

Reply #2 –
Thank you for your question.  Yes power is coming out of our 8000 Onan but it does not pass through the EMS it was passing through the ATS when we checked it after install last Wednesday. 
Thanks,
Kath & Mike
2007 Foretravel Nimbus 336
Toad 2022 Jeep Gladiator Overland edition

Re: Automatic Transfer Switch and EMS Surge Replaced - no Shore power in Coach

Reply #3 –
What is the voltage coming out of the generator?
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Automatic Transfer Switch and EMS Surge Replaced - no Shore power in Coach

Reply #4 –
I was wondering the same thing. The EMS is seeing something it doesn't like. Are you getting an EMS error code?

E 0 - Normal Operating Condition
E 1 - Reverse Polarity (hot and neutral wires reversed)
E 2 - Open Ground (no ground wire connection)
E 3 - Line 1 High Voltage (line voltage above 132V)
E 4 - Line 1 Low Voltage (line voltage below 104V)
E 5*- Line 2 Voltage High (Line voltage above 132V)
E 6*- Line 2 Voltage Low (Line voltage below 104V)
E 7 - Line Frequency High (line frequency above 69Hz)
E 8 - Line Frequency Low (line frequency below 51Hz)
E 9 - Data Link Down (call technical support)
E 10 - Replace Surge Protector Module (call Progressive
Industries Tech Support)
* Code only apply to EMS-HW50C models
Peter and Tammy Fleming
1991 U300 GV 40 - Sold, owned for 4 years
Downsized to Roadtrek Popular 210 class B

Re: Automatic Transfer Switch and EMS Surge Replaced - no Shore power in Coach

Reply #5 –
I have a 2008 Phenix without the EMS but recently had a similar issue, in that My coach had no power from shore or generator. It turns out that after replacing the transfer switch the inverter would not switch to either power source when seeing them.  I found that the inverter a Xantrex had failed on its internal transfer switch.  I found after 15 years that the inverter could not be fixed in any reasonable time. So I found the current Xantrax Freedom version of my old one and installed it.  Everything worked but both transfer switch and inverter spoke a newer language so my Silverleaf Total coach would not show the values although everything was working. I sent the module that controlled these values to Foretravel where they updated the firmware and now all is working as before. If you can bypass your EMS directly to the transfer switch and then to the inverter you can see if the inverter internal transfer bit the dust like mine did.

Re: Automatic Transfer Switch and EMS Surge Replaced - no Shore power in Coach

Reply #6 –
Thank you for the recommendations-we will check the generator output tomorrow and let you know. Also we will try to troubleshoot the Freedom 3012 inverter.  Thank you again.
Thanks,
Kath & Mike
2007 Foretravel Nimbus 336
Toad 2022 Jeep Gladiator Overland edition

Re: Automatic Transfer Switch and EMS Surge Replaced - no Shore power in Coach

Reply #7 –
The inverter should be just your power for you plugs, microwave, and refrig.  Are you AC's also dead?  Got no power to main power panel. 

I had a problem over Thanksgiving where we got to the park the coach would not power up.  The Progressive outside at pole said everything outside was good but the transfer switch would not connect to the shore power.  Checked between each phase and ground got 120V, each phase and neutral and got 120, between phases got 240. Put my meter to checked continuity between the the neutral and the ground I was getting nothing.  I pulled the power pedestal apart and found it wired incorrectly.  The ground was only connected to a ground rod, it was good for my volt meter but not good enough for a continuity meter between each other.  I went and corrected the power pole wiring and the coach liked it by powering up.

Moral of story is when your new transfer switch was wired up they might have screwed up on the wiring. 

Take some pictures of the wiring and lets look at that. 

Give me a call tomorrow and we can walk through and figure out what is wrong.

2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: Automatic Transfer Switch and EMS Surge Replaced - no Shore power in Coach

Reply #8 –
In reading the manual for the EMS it says 

Bypass
This switch is located on the remote panel, and allows the user to bypass the computer circuit in
the EMS in the event of computer failure, this allowing AC power into the RV. This does not
disable the surge protection portion of the EMS; however, all other features are disabled.

Have you tried that?
2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: Automatic Transfer Switch and EMS Surge Replaced - no Shore power in Coach

Reply #9 –
Thank you yes we did it did not change anything.  We also metered the main breaker and there is no power going into the main breaker.  We metered power at the transfer switch and the generator and shore power metered correctly.  When we metered the EMS shore power appears to be going through, but generator power is not. We have checked the fuse on the generator and it is producing power and we have documented that power in the ATS.  When we connect the 50 amp after about 45 seconds there is a click in the transfer box and there is no AC-in showing on the freedom 3012 inverter.
Thanks,
Kath & Mike
2007 Foretravel Nimbus 336
Toad 2022 Jeep Gladiator Overland edition

Re: Automatic Transfer Switch and EMS Surge Replaced - no Shore power in Coach

Reply #10 –
Hey Mike, can you post some pictures?  Your Nimbus is newer and uses different systems than my U320, but maybe seeing what you are working with would make it easier to give you something to check.

On my rig, there is a ATS box in the electrical bay with the two transfer switches for the generator and shore power.  There is also a voltage limit relay in there that if it does not see voltage within the range it wants, it will not let the ATS's engage.  I can meter at the input to each ATS and the output of each ATS.  Can you do this?
Keith
2003 U320 38' #6197

Re: Automatic Transfer Switch and EMS Surge Replaced - no Shore power in Coach

Reply #11 –
Hi there,

Yes we are able to meter the power in and out of the ATS.  Also the EMS is working properly.  We are able to meter current the main current directly in the bay behind the ATS so it we believe we have a open between there and the main 50 amp breaker below the bed.

We have called an electrician to assist.  Fingers crossed - no ac power since 12-23....  Thank goodness we have a two solar panels.
Thanks,
Kath & Mike
2007 Foretravel Nimbus 336
Toad 2022 Jeep Gladiator Overland edition

Re: Automatic Transfer Switch and EMS Surge Replaced - no Shore power in Coach

Reply #12 –
I have a 1995 foretravel u300 looking for the transfer switch on it

Re: Automatic Transfer Switch and EMS Surge Replaced - no Shore power in Coach

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Kath and Mike Reinert –
Hi there,

Yes we are able to meter the power in and out of the ATS.  Also the EMS is working properly.  We are able to meter current the main current directly in the bay behind the ATS so it we believe we have a open between there and the main 50 amp breaker below the bed.

We have called an electrician to assist.  Fingers crossed - no ac power since 12-23....  Thank goodness we have a two solar panels.

First I am assuming that your ATS is first in  line, then your EMS is on the output of your ATS.  You have checked on the output of your EMS that you are getting 120v between each hot (two of them) and ground and 120v between each hot (two of them) and neutral.  When you check between the two phases you are getting 240V .  When you check at your breaker box inside the coach you are getting nothing at all.  Is all of the above correct?

If all of the above is 100% correct, the odds of the 6/3 cable (romex?) going complete bad from the EMS to the inside breaker box is  way up there.  I would say you have a better chance getting hit by lighting then that cable going bad.

The problem you are going to have is most electricians will have no idea what you have or how to trouble shoot this problem.
2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: Automatic Transfer Switch and EMS Surge Replaced - no Shore power in Coach

Reply #14 –
Yup, troubleshooting with a voltmeter should be pretty straightforward, but absolutely, it depends on the "order" of devices from shore power to main 120 VAC breaker box.

Certainly, with all 120 VAC off (shore power disconnected, generator and AGS off, inverter off) start by looking for any burned wires, and verify all connections are tight at each of the devices.  That is actually where I would start.

If you have to pay a tech, leave the lids off so you are not paying for locating devices and/or removing lids.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Automatic Transfer Switch and EMS Surge Replaced - no Shore power in Coach

Reply #15 –
Check your main breaker, I have knock off when working near it.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport
 

Re: Automatic Transfer Switch and EMS Surge Replaced - no Shore power in Coach

Reply #16 –
Thanks all for the troubleshooting - When the electrician came out he identified that the relay switches on the ATS that we had installed from a used rig were not working properly.  Since then we have replaced the ATS and we now have power in the rig.

We are still having issues (no AC light) with the Freedom 3012 and are in the process of scheduling to replace that with a Victron 3000 which should allow us to better manage our Battle Born battery bank, we are also having additional solar put on the roof. Thank you again for all your help! Also sorry for the delay we both came down with the Kung flu and we are feeling better.
Thanks,
Kath & Mike
2007 Foretravel Nimbus 336
Toad 2022 Jeep Gladiator Overland edition