House battery charging engine vs. generator

Topic: House battery charging engine vs. generator (Read 3104 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #25 – May 03, 2022, 12:45:51 pm

Quote from: Protech Racing – May 03, 2022, 12:22:09 pm

While my Chinese instructions are a little hard to translate. No where does it say to turn off at night .

The PO of our U300 told us how they all ran out the door when there was a strong smell of ammonia. It didn't have a fridge when we picked it up. Used a cooler and ice on the way home. I had a new Norcold in our garage so installed it. There is a very old Japanese RV fridge in our garage from 1978 that still works fine.

Doubt if any RV accessory will say anything about turning off at night. That would be admitting a possible problem and open the manufacturer/seller to litigation in case of a fire. Very small possibility but it only takes me a second to switch off the inverter and controller. Our old Taytronics inverter had a huge idle consumption and unless it was turned off, the batteries would be flat in the morning. We have three inverters now but only have one in operation most of the time. It also gets shut off at the end of the day.

Pierce

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #26 – May 03, 2022, 04:53:26 pm

Quote from: Protech Racing – May 03, 2022, 12:22:09 pm

In the case of the propane fridge and RV fires. Most RV fires are fridge related . I removed mine .

And most RV fridge fires are due to an accumulation of combustible debris. It really takes much neglect to cause that little propane flame to cause an RV fire.

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #27 – May 03, 2022, 04:59:32 pm

OR if the cooling system has a break and the Hydrogen leak plus spark causes a flare up.

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #28 – May 03, 2022, 05:07:25 pm

Our 3 way fridge runs on setting number one through the day, it's got to be really hot to need #2 or 3, I switch it off every night before bed. Sorry no thoughtful rationale on this one just something that I do.

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #29 – May 03, 2022, 07:15:52 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – May 02, 2022, 02:55:22 pm

As a retired firefighter, I've seen a Christmas tree burn a house down (on Christmas Eve no less) when the homeowners went next door to exchange gifts, RV fridge fires, and for those who have not seen my YouTube burning RV fire, here it tis again below.

Our RVs are nothing but death traps if they catch on fire. Most won't but enough do that it so take a little thought to minimize the risk. Lightweight wood construction with super flammable resin holding the body together, no building inspector to sign each part of the construction off and only one real exit way up front or midship makes any kind of fire much more hazardous than a house fire. It's usually the toxic smoke that kills you but flame on the body can be fatal in only a second if enough of the body is exposed.

One member noticed smoke in the mirror, pulled over and just had time to exit the coach before it was consumed. Anyone viewing this forum long enough has seen the fridge fire that burned the coach even with a well advertised automatic extinguisher mounted right at the burner level. Smoke alarms are great if they are maintained but imagine awakening from a deep sleep with smoke in the coach, pushing out the window and getting your family and pets out.

When we go to sleep, I shut down the controller and inverter but leave the fridge (on propane) on. As many have seen, I lined the fridge compartment, sides, top and bottom with Hardie Backerboard so am as confident as one can be that it won't get us in the night. I also have quick connects on the safety cable to the toad so I can disconnect in a hurry if I have to. We have always shut down the coach if we leave the dogs inside to go into a restaurant. I've had seven engine failures in aircraft while flying. I don't trust anything electrical or mechanical.

This fellow just had time to pull over and get out. He had quick disconnects and was able to back the toad away from the fire.

Pierce
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX6sJ91fK-U

Seven engine failures in aircraft! I don't ever want to go flying with you. 😂 (Joking).
Going on 35 years as a professional pilot. Not one engine failure. (Knocking on wood).
I agree that RVs can be a rolling death trap. My wife and I have discussed and practiced how to get out if you wake up and can't see and maybe have difficulty breathing. You might have one minute at most to exit. I wish we had a dedicated emergency exit in the bedroom.

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #30 – May 03, 2022, 07:31:43 pm

Quote from: Protech Racing – May 03, 2022, 12:22:09 pm

When I know very little about something, I research extensively. In the case of the propane fridge and RV fires. Most RV fires are fridge related . I removed mine .
In the case of solar. I know very little also. I can not find any instances of Solar charger fires. Some battery fires but not many of anything related to the chargers.
While my Chinese instructions are a little hard to translate. No where does it say to turn off at night .
While my budget is very low relative to most of you, I try to make do within my resources.

Speaking of battery fires. Do you remember the problem with battery fires that Boeing had on the 787 that uses Lithium batteries. How about the YouTube videos of laptops with runaway lithium battery fires. The flight attendants at work have emergency procedures to deal with lithium battery fires in the cabin. Just food for thought with all these cheap Chinese lithium batteries on the market. I've seen what one can do in a laptop that's smaller than a pack of cigarettes.

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #31 – May 03, 2022, 08:53:28 pm

Quote from: Res777 – May 03, 2022, 07:31:43 pm

Speaking of battery fires. Do you remember the problem with battery fires that Boeing had on the 787 that uses Lithium batteries. How about the YouTube videos of laptops with runaway lithium battery fires. The flight attendants at work have emergency procedures to deal with lithium battery fires in the cabin. Just food for thought with all these cheap Chinese lithium batteries on the market. I've seen what one can do in a laptop that's smaller than a pack of cigarettes.

Those are Lithium Ion not LiFePO4 different animal altogether.

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #32 – May 04, 2022, 05:30:56 am

Quote from: craneman – May 03, 2022, 08:53:28 pm

Those are Lithium Ion not LiFePO4 different animal altogether.

I learned something new. Thanks.

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #33 – May 04, 2022, 08:26:46 am

Quote from: Res777 – May 03, 2022, 07:15:52 pm

My wife and I have discussed and practiced how to get out if you wake up and can't see and maybe difficulty breathing. You might have one minute at most to exit. I wish we had a dedicated emergency exit in the bedroom.

Small battery powered chain saw?

For us the windows will be the first to go. Broken bones heal if you're still alive.

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #34 – May 04, 2022, 10:25:59 am

Night time is the worst and the latest smoke detectors should give enough time to evacuate plus being interconnected, a couple of these will alert you even if a sliding door is closed. Kidde Smoke & Carbon Monoxide Detector, Lithium Battery Powered, Interconnect... Nice to have 10 year battery as if the regular batteries go out while stored in the off season, you probably won't realize it. Some models will use the internet to alert you while away from the coach. Photo sensors respond the best to smoldering material. Carbon monoxide is slightly lighter than air so models that do smoke and CO are good. Unvented heaters may produce CO plus need a window open a bit. Catalytic types of unvented heaters produce much less CO. None are recommended but if used, never forget that they may lower the oxygen level to a dangerous point even if they advertise they have a warning indicator.

Have an escape plan, perhaps sliding open the bedroom windows so everyone can see how easy or difficult it might be in case of a fire. Knowing where and how to use a first aid kit is important. A strong flashlight is also recommended.

No two accidents/events are the same so while it's impossible to be fully prepared for everything, a family plan occasionally discussed is an excellent idea. Especially true if children are sleeping in a different area of the coach.

Pierce

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Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #35 – May 04, 2022, 10:46:14 am

Thinking of putting a couple of these in the bedroom, other than throwing Lynda out the window she would be unable to escape.

DIBBATU Fireproof Cloak, Fireproof Cape, Fireproof Hooded Cloak, Fire...

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Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #36 – May 04, 2022, 11:04:25 am

I keep a fire extinguisher right by the bed. I can touch it while I'm laying down. Maybe I won't need it or maybe it'll be too little too late and we're abandoning ship via the window. If the rig is going up in flames I don't really care about anything but the dogs and wife. The rest I can replace.

I worry a lot by nature but try to push the thought of freak accidents killing me to the back of my mind... too many other mundane things that are likely to get me first.

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #37 – May 04, 2022, 03:10:48 pm

Any thoughts on this product? I've been considering it for the engine compartment and then started thinking about it for the refrigerator compartment. Seems like a simple safety measure.

Engine Fire Fighter Suppression - Home

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #38 – May 04, 2022, 05:34:29 pm

The problem with engine compartments in our Foretravels is the black insulation. As seen in my fire test, it burns rapidly releasing dense toxic smoke. It needs to be removed and replaces with some nonflammable insulation like the R-19 fiberglass I used and then covered with a rigid nonflammable layer like Hardie Backerboard. The backerboard compresses the R-19 but it still acts to deaden the sound and provide a thermal barrier to keep the bed cooler after a day's drive. There are other options but any aluminum foil with any insulation material inside with quickly melt when exposed to a direct flame. With backerboard, it not only compresses any insulation under it but it will withstand a blowtorch as seen on YouTube.

The ability of the backeboard to withstand direct flame for an extended period is why I don't worry much about the propane RV fridge. In the engine or generator compartment, the backerboard's task is different. It will only contain the fire in the immediate area before it reaches combustible materials. This buys time to pull over, evacuate everyone and possibly fight the fire if it's small. To be safe, the engine compartment should have a heat detector to give early warning of the high temperature flames create so the coach can be stopped and some kind of extinguishing agent can be remotely triggered. Again, after evacuation of family and pets.

The fire fighter device in the above post may work OK on a vehicle that is stopped without the engine running. The radiator fan is bad enough but with the RV traveling down the road, any foam or other suppressant is quickly blown away. The diesel engine may be on fire but it won't stop and like most incidents, the driver won't notice it in the mirror until the fire is well established. With a burning coach going down the road, every second the air/oxygen is replaced with fresh air and is just like blowing on a campfire to start it.

Once any part of the engine or surroundings reaches the flash point of diesel, even the application of foam, dry chemical will only knock it down for a short time but if the material remains above the flash point of diesel, the diesel will ignite again and again until the metal, etc temperature drops below the flash point. The is why tar buggies and restaurant deep fryers have fusible links so the cover will drop down on the liquid cutting off the supply of oxygen. The application of water on a restaurant deep fryer will cause an explosion of the oil covering anyone in the vicinity with hot burning oil.

When we arrived at a vehicle fire, a dry chemical under the hood is great if the fire is confined there. For a motorhome with the engine compartment on fire, we used a 1 1/2" hose with adjustable nozzle putting out 125 gallons of water a minute. With a normal house or RV fire, water applied in a spray pattern will expand up to 1700 times and as it turns to steam, it takes a huge amount of heat from what is burning until the temperature drops below the ignition temperature. As an RV owner, you don't have the water needed and can only hope to knock a small fire down with a dry chemical extinguisher or pressurized water extinguisher. And this is only after your family and pets have been evacuated. Without protective gear, fighting a fire is much more hazardous that for a professional first responder and should be left to them, especially if involving the fuel and or propane tanks.

I saw a video of a burning RV on the wrong side of the road where the propane safety valve was releasing a straight stream of propane across all lanes of a highway about every 10 seconds. A car traveling the other way with the window down could have had a stream of burning liquid propane in the car. This is why the propane tanks are usually on the curb side of an RV.

Pierce

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #39 – May 04, 2022, 05:57:38 pm

Thanks for the great info Pierce. Hopefully never have a fire. Trying to figure out best ladder to hang from bedroom window if necessary. I travel with two Rottweilers and a cat so will just have to throw them out after the DW is out. I have a harness belt that could slip around the DW to stable her down a ladder, dogs not sure depends on them, easy let down or thrown out, cat who knows.

By they way how much stronger did the bed shocks need to be to hold all the backer board up?

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #40 – May 04, 2022, 07:26:21 pm

With a good photo type smoke detector in the bedroom and main salon, you should have ample warning so you can use the normal exit. Even particles you can't see set them off. A rope or other kind of ladder would be good if you got hit or went off road and the door was not working, etc. I cruise along fat, dumb and happy most of the time but after I videoed the big RV burning and read about others on forums, I try to take just a little caution with me when we travel. Not paranoia at all but I like to think it's being responsible.

The PO had a pillow top on the bed platform that would not fit their new Tiffin so they left it in. It's really heavy so I have to lift and keep a stick in the electrical part of the compartment to keep it up. Not sure how much the backerboard added but with the hinges at the rear, I don't have to lift the total weight. New struts are on the list (now for the rant and rave if you can do both) but the land takes most of our time so the U300 is usually on the back burner. The the insurance company is always sending threatening notices for our homeowner's insurance so never get the house or land done. They even had a photographer come around yesterday to our house and 20 other State Farm policy holders near us. Everyday is weed eating, cutting trees, etc. I love California but the fires, $6.50/gal diesel, fire insurance doubling, and severe drought are making it tough. Can't complain too much about inflation as it's hit just about every country in the world equally with retirees suffering the most. Hey, warm bed at night and food on the table so can't be all bad.

Pierce

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #41 – May 04, 2022, 09:00:46 pm

I agree no need to worry just be prepared and have a plan. Hadn't heard of those type of detectors but think that makes good sense and will get some for sure.
I would definitely prefer to use the door in a fire, would be much easier on everyone so with those sensors would give you time to run first then figure out what's going on.
My 2000 has a silver blanket in the engine compartment but it's probably not any better than the black. I'll put that on my list closer to the top now. And plan on getting heavier shocks or making a built in prop rod. I always feel like the bed is going to crunch my head even when the shocks are holding...maybe.
Larry

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #42 – May 05, 2022, 12:51:39 am

I suggest that you invest in a 800 watt rooftop solar charging solution and be fixed for life. If you do not have a SINE WAVE inverter installed, do the research and probably get a 3000 watt unit so you will be a happy camper. After that, get your spouse an INDUCTION PORTABLE COOKTOP and she will never let you go. Life in the boondocks can be marvelous. Been doing it since 2000.
Regards

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #43 – May 05, 2022, 10:33:17 am

Quote from: Jon Twork – May 05, 2022, 12:51:39 am

I suggest that you invest in a 800 watt rooftop solar charging solution and be fixed for life. If you do not have a SINE WAVE inverter installed, do the research and probably get a 3000 watt unit so you will be a happy camper. After that, get your spouse an INDUCTION PORTABLE COOKTOP and she will never let you go. Life in the boondocks can be marvelous. Been doing it since 2000.
Regards

Jon,

We have 1140 watt potential on the roof now (since 2008) and three inverters, two sine wave, the other an on demand Trace. We love our propane oven and stove top. Did Julia Child ever use an electric range? I remember an episode where WGBH tried to making her use one.

Now you've got me thinking about French food!

Pierce

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #44 – May 05, 2022, 05:28:35 pm

Wish our stove was gas. We are not fans of the induction cook top. Probably could replace with one I guess...have 17 gallons of propane on board for fridge...

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #45 – May 05, 2022, 07:52:07 pm

Quote from: Bigoil76 – May 05, 2022, 05:28:35 pm

Wish our stove was gas. We are not fans of the induction cook top. Probably could replace with one I guess...have 17 gallons of propane on board for fridge...

Propane/electric fridge, 3-burner propane stove with pilot light, propane oven in which I've finally mastered interior heat control. Two propane forced hot air furnaces that do the job, along with a propane Onan, all three of which I wish were diesel.

Art

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #46 – May 06, 2022, 12:25:13 am

Hey Art, how about one or two of these diesel parking heaters? Most parts are interchangeable with a Webasto. The build quality is not as good as the Germans do but the electronics are good. I have a couple and can't find any faults plus you can buy five or six for the cost of one Webasto. Going to install my last one in the U300. I had the German one in my MBZ 309D that didn't work but the parts were incredibly expensive so i round filed it. Amazon.com : diesel heater Lots of reviews plus quite a few YouTube videos on them. For a extra $100, you can get a model that heats water as well as air. Make your own Aquahot. Plus, they don't make all the noise our propane furnaces do. I can't sleep when the bedroom propane furnace is on.

Pierce

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #47 – May 06, 2022, 08:11:12 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – May 06, 2022, 12:25:13 am

Hey Art, how about one or two of these diesel parking heaters? Most parts are interchangeable with a Webasto. The build quality is not as good as the Germans do but the electronics are good. Make your own Aquahot. Plus, they don't make all the noise our propane furnaces do. I can't sleep when the bedroom propane furnace is on.
Pierce

Yeah, the home-built aqua hot system didn't make it past the planning meeting. By the time I spec'd out the powered radiation and the furnaces the cost equaled a new propane furnace. The death blow came with the discovery of a 1/2 price scratch and dent 35,000 BTU Dometic hot air furnace.

I had every intention of arriving in Rhinebeck, NY or South Bend Indiana today, but a medical emergency occurred so the summer is going to revolve around home nursing and visits to specialists.

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #48 – May 06, 2022, 10:13:30 am

Hope it's quickly resolved and you are "back in the pink" soon!!

Pierce

Re: House battery charging engine vs. generator

Reply #49 – May 06, 2022, 01:54:05 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – May 06, 2022, 10:13:30 am

Hope it's quickly resolved and you are "back in the pink" soon!!

Pierce

Lynn's re-habbing in a nursing home, Septic arthritis in an 8 year old prosthetic joint.
Art

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