Foretravel towing capacities

Topic: Foretravel towing capacities (Read 2178 times) previous topic - next topic

Foretravel towing capacities

January 04, 2013, 08:08:00 am

I am interested in hearing from owners who have a better understanding than myself on towing capacities.
While I understand the hitch is rated at 10000 lbs. isn't the overall weight of the coach plus the towed a factor?
I see alot of motorhomes pulling large enclosed car trailers and often wonder are these units legal.
Thanks,
Jerry
1999U270WTFE34

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #1 – January 04, 2013, 09:15:57 am

The two numbers you need are GWR, the gross weight rating for the coach, and the GCWR, which is the combined gross weight rating combining the weight of the towed vehicle. It's easily possible to be within the rating of the hitch but exceed the GCWR if the coach itself is heavily loaded.

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #2 – January 04, 2013, 11:18:01 am

Quote from: Green99 – January 04, 2013, 08:08:00 am

I
I see alot of motorhomes pulling large enclosed car trailers and often wonder are these units legal.
Thanks,
Jerry
1999U270WTFE34

My guess would be that a large percentage of rigs you see going down the road are not within the mfr's labeled ratings. That goes for fifth wheels as well as coaches. Most of the fulltimers I know go down the road "heavier" than the mfr's ratings.

Roland

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #3 – January 04, 2013, 11:25:19 am

Does anyone know the criteria for the GCVW? How can coaches be altered to handled higher weights?

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #4 – January 04, 2013, 11:47:44 am

Good question Kent. Is GCWR based on the weight that can be moved down the road without risk to engine and drive train without considering ability to stop the train?

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #5 – January 04, 2013, 11:54:49 am

Chassis, suspension and braking capacity would be my response for determining capacities. As to increasing the capacity of a unit? Get a new unit with higher capacities.

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #6 – January 04, 2013, 05:18:33 pm

Quote from: Dick S – January 04, 2013, 11:47:44 am

Good question Kent. Is GCWR based on the weight that can be moved down the road without risk to engine and drive train without considering ability to stop the train?

I have seen a GV towing a flatbed trailer with backhoe and other construction equipment on it. Must have weighted almost what the GV did. The limit to the engine would be the radiator. Hot weather and a really heavy trailer don't go together with side/rear radiator pushers. I could torture my Detroit at full throttle all day long if I could keep it cool. High automatic transmission temperatures don't bode well for long life so hard pulling in first and second before lockup really brings the temperature up fast. Lots of other factors like the hitch design, tire rating, vehicle weight, braking ability, etc. An example would be starting a heavy load on a steep grade. My first gear is too tall and would cook the trans if I had to do it all the time. That's why I have to back up my steep driveway otherwise I add 50 degrees in 300 feet to the trans temp.

Lots to consider before going over gross. Sort of like aircraft. Easy to overload and you can get away with it most the time but sooner or later you can end up in a situation where you pay the price. So easy to get overconfident, especially for RVers with a few trips in familiar territory under their belt.

Pierce

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #7 – January 04, 2013, 06:39:53 pm

Is there a placard on the coach showing the GWR and the GCWR. This info was posted on my last SOB on a spec. sheet in the closet.
Thanks all for the help.

Jerry
1999U270WTFE34

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #8 – January 04, 2013, 06:52:27 pm

Quote from: Green99 – January 04, 2013, 06:39:53 pm

Is there a placard on the coach showing the GWR and the GCWR.

Possibly on the VIN/Build/Weight plate (GVWR at least, not sure abut GCWR) that's low on the wall next to the driver's seat.

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #9 – January 04, 2013, 06:59:07 pm

Should be on a metal plate up by the drivers knee. That was where it was on my 99 34 foot.

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #10 – January 04, 2013, 09:04:06 pm

Quote from: Green99 – January 04, 2013, 06:39:53 pm

Is there a placard on the coach showing the GWR and the GCWR. This info was posted on my last SOB on a spec. sheet in the closet.
Thanks all for the help.

Jerry
1999U270WTFE34

GVWR & GCWR for most Foretravels can be found at:
Foretravel Vehicle Weight

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #11 – January 04, 2013, 09:18:21 pm

Barry,
Thanks for the link.
Jerry

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #12 – January 05, 2013, 07:47:54 pm

Interesting....

After checking out the Beamalarm link I found that beginning in the '98 320 and thereafter the difference in carrying capacity doubled from 5000# to 10,000#. Why this dramatic increase? This seems to be a significant plus for purchasing a '98 or newer coach...

Anyone out there have any ideas?

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #13 – January 05, 2013, 07:57:08 pm

Redesign of the rear frame structure.

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #14 – January 05, 2013, 08:29:40 pm

A little common sense goes along with all these weight ratings, with the 10K lb rating, does not mean load up trailer to 10K lb and hook up to a fully loaded coach. Why the ratings such as Gross vehicle weight and gross combination weight need to be thought about.
Yes even the newest hitch ratings are 18K lb, still need some thought. Know of a coach with the 18K lb hitch and the coach is 52,000, that does not mean you can go 70K lb. total..
Cheers
Dave M

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #15 – January 05, 2013, 09:15:05 pm

I looked at the Beamalarm page, But am none the wiser on GCWR for my Coach, I cant see the numbers on the piccys that I have of the drivers plate,

The Coach is some where on the Pacific Ocean heading for Japan, so I cant see it till it gets here,

Makes it very hard, as I want to build a trailer to go on the back of it,

My coach is listed as 21.700 Lbs from the seller, Is there any where else I can look to get the GCWR of my coach.

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #16 – January 05, 2013, 10:37:33 pm

Brian,
I don't think you will find the GCWR in the drives plate since they didn't put on my '91. You should find it in one of the two 3 ring binder notebooks that come with the coach. I would imagine Foretravel should be able to provide that information for you if you don't want to wait.

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #17 – January 06, 2013, 07:48:59 am

Quote from: JohnFitz – January 05, 2013, 10:37:33 pm

Brian,
I don't think you will find the GCWR in the drives plate since they didn't put on my '91. You should find it in one of the two 3 ring binder notebooks that come with the coach. I would imagine Foretravel should be able to provide that information for you if you don't want to wait.

Thanks John,
Looks like I will have to email Foretravel for the info, I dont know if the manuals or Note books are on the bus, Thats a wait and see thing also,
I have only dealt with the dealer who sold my bus to me, So I am very up in the air for a lot of information, and the coach wont be here till the end of February,
The wait is killing me,
Cheers,
Brian,

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #18 – January 06, 2013, 10:00:34 pm

Quote from: MR B2 – January 05, 2013, 09:15:05 pm

I looked at the Beamalarm page, But am none the wiser on GCWR for my Coach, I cant see the numbers on the piccys that I have of the drivers plate,

Quote from: MR B2 – December 14, 2012, 06:18:56 am

My 1989 Grand Villa 36 ORED, has an Oshkosh Chassis, 300 HP Cat Motor. 4 Speed Allison Auto gear box,
The build date on the chassis is August 1988,
It cost $209,100-00 new,
Fresh water, 100 Gallons, Black Tank 75 Gallons, Grey tank 100 gallons, LP 80, LP detector, 2 A/C units. Furnace, Water heater, convertor, LP 7500 Watt generator, Trash compactor and separate Ice maker.

I dont know if all this is standard or some of it was added options, It was listed as a high end unit,

I dont think it is a Unihome model, Its the model before the Unihome,

I suspect you have enough info to determine the info you want. The BeamAlarm page lists the '89 ORED numbers as substantially below the Unihome numbers. It looks to me like a 20,500 GVWR. Looking at the other vehicles around that range, my estimate would suggest not much more than a GCWR of 2,000 more.

But, I'm just a number cruncher and the answer is only as good as the data.

HTH

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #19 – January 07, 2013, 11:49:19 am

Quote from: Kent Speers – January 04, 2013, 11:25:19 am

Does anyone know the criteria for the GCVW? How can coaches be altered to handled higher weights?

The only one who can change the GCVW is the manufacturer, or a DOT certified re-builder. And they have to put on a new Modified VIN/Build/Weight plate. It is all covered somewhere in CFR Title 49--Transportation.

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #20 – January 07, 2013, 03:53:17 pm

Quote from: Green99 – January 04, 2013, 08:08:00 am

I am interested in hearing from owners who have a better understanding than myself on towing capacities.
While I understand the hitch is rated at 10000 lbs. isn't the overall weight of the coach plus the towed a factor?
I see alot of motorhomes pulling large enclosed car trailers and often wonder are these units legal.
Thanks,
Jerry
1999U270WTFE34

For at least 1996 through 2003, FT has been very clear (I thought) on their 10 CFR 49 required nameplate data posted on the wall adjacent to the driver's seat (see attached photos). The Code of Federal Regulations (10 CFR 49 - Transportation) is a living, changing document and it did not always require the nameplate posting. So there were not the same standardized posting requirements earlier on, but I believe FT has always included the same information in the owner's manuals/information sets.
If by "legal" you mean Federal, State and Local Law enforcement and in liability contests, the simple answer is if you are not within the 10 CFR 49 nameplate data regards Unloaded vehicle weight and Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating, you are on your own. That's why the rating is required to be posted as it is.

Quote from: Green99 – January 04, 2013, 06:39:53 pm

Is there a placard on the coach showing the GWR and the GCWR. This info was posted on my last SOB on a spec. sheet in the closet.
Thanks all for the help.
Jerry
1999U270WTFE34

Jerry,
The nameplate data should be right beside the driver's seat as in the attached pictures. The definitions may be in your Owner's manual vs. on the wall as I know many owner's used to complain that the (what I think are handy and useful) definition decals were unattractive and needed to be hidden out of sight.

Quote from: bill velting – January 05, 2013, 07:47:54 pm

Interesting....

After checking out the Beamalarm link I found that beginning in the '98 320 and thereafter the difference in carrying capacity doubled from 5000# to 10,000#. Why this dramatic increase? This seems to be a significant plus for purchasing a '98 or newer coach...

Anyone out there have any ideas?

Bill,
Late '95, and then '96, '97, '98 were the first years of the unicoach design. I believe FT was tweaking the design and building (increasing) the Unicoach design conservatism (which already had lots of conservatism built in). At the same time, close competitors were increasing their stated tow capacities, so there was strong market pressure to up the nameplate tow rating.
I tried and found that (understandably) FT wasn't going to officially disclose the proprietary information behind the upgrade from a '98 5000# Unicoach to a '99 10,000# Unicoach tow rating. I was able to spend some time under the coach with an individual that I know and trust (from FT) and had the exact design change elements pointed out to me. In my estimation, they are minimal. I went ahead on my own and changed them myself on my coach.
I know that I am on my own in defending that in the future, which is OK by me. However, the design and structure changes of pre vs. post '99 Unicoaches are not "dramatic". Actually, as I understand it, the changes were more "big block " vs. "small block" weight issues and conservatively stabilizing the dynamic forces induced by frame flexures driven by the increasing ISM weight acting in combination with a hitch tounge weight hypothetically running at the maximum allowed design limit.
Neal

Quote from: Dave M – January 05, 2013, 08:29:40 pm

A little common sense goes along with all these weight ratings, with the 10K lb rating, does not mean load up trailer to 10K lb and hook up to a fully loaded coach. Why the ratings such as Gross vehicle weight and gross combination weight need to be thought about.
Yes even the newest hitch ratings are 18K lb, still need some thought. Know of a coach with the 18K lb hitch and the coach is 52,000, that does not mean you can go 70K lb. total..
Cheers
Dave M

Here, Here! I wholeheartedly second that!
One must remain aware that it all starts with Axel/Tire/Wheel rating and what the FT coach structure, cooling system, brakes, engine and transmission can reliably and safely "motivate up to speed" and "haul on down" to a stop. The 10 CFR 49 required nameplate data (see attached pictures) give you the outside dimensions of that envelope. If you chose to venture outside of that envelope, you are then relying on your own defenses, including the very important tire and wheel ratings. If you are changing tires or wheels, make sure that you are not inadvertently downgrading for the sake of less expense. Not all size-compatible tires are equal in terms of weight carrying capacity and performance ratings (speed, flexure, self heating, protectant lubricity, longevity, design margins, etc.).
Neal

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #21 – December 26, 2022, 03:31:18 pm

Here's to bumping another super old thread!

Anyone know why the 2005's got 18k tow rating, but the 2004 and earlier were only 10k?

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #22 – December 26, 2022, 04:55:48 pm

Bigger axles, bigger tires, engineer's rating brake capacity higher, engineers realizing higher GCWR means more money. Only the original manufacturer can change GVW rating. Shame.

Re: Foretravel towing capacities

Reply #23 – December 26, 2022, 06:39:46 pm

Quote from: WS6_Keith – December 26, 2022, 03:31:18 pm

Here's to bumping another super old thread!

Anyone know why the 2005's got 18k tow rating, but the 2004 and earlier were only 10k?

Ahhhhh..We miss you Neal ! come on back and share your knowledge.

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