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Topic: 1997 ForeTravel 36’ U295 [options to repair/replace King Throttle] (Read 16576 times) previous topic - next topic

1997 ForeTravel 36’ U295 [options to repair/replace King Throttle]

Looking for info:  1997 ForeTravel 36' U295 - cost to repair King Throttle - $6-7,000.  Would like to upgrade to newer type system - would you recommend air throttle vs. mechanical?  Names/recommendations of places who do this kind of upgrade?  Will I still have cruise control?  I realize the cost might be in the same ballpark, but I'm thinking better chance of reasonably priced repairs down the road.  If I have the King Throttle repaired, and then it shorts out or something, I feel like I will be back at square one and looking at another $5,000 plus repair.  Price quoted was from Advanced Diagnostics ($5,600) plus shipping and additional costs.  Would like a recommendation of a shop that will do full conversion.  Thanks!

[Edited topic title for clarity - Michelle]

Re: 1997 ForeTravel 36’ U295 [options to repair/replace King Throttle]

Reply #1 –
I sent an email to Charles Young earlier today to see if he had the mounting brackets still but he hasn't responded. If and when Charles responds I will let you know and will try to point you in the right direction.

Re: 1997 ForeTravel 36’ U295 [options to repair/replace King Throttle]

Reply #2 –
Can you get an updated ECM with cruise control?

Re: 1997 ForeTravel 36’ U295 [options to repair/replace King Throttle]

Reply #3 –
My understanding is a 97 model 8.3 is  NOT electronic controlled. I was fortunate in that the Cruise feature still worked on my King Box and I use it for cruise along with air for foot pedal. My coach is a  96 model.

Re: 1997 ForeTravel 36’ U295 [options to repair/replace King Throttle]

Reply #4 –
Would like to know more as I'm starting to understand the King Box a bit more.  It controls the throttle AND the cruise - correct?  One of the two can go either the throttle or the cruise function and the other still functions?  Both of mine work, but I've had problems with losing the throttle function.  According to your post. I could add air throttle and keep the cruise function on the King by keeping the King Control box?  I'm trying to picture this as there is a throttle cable from King to engine.  If I added an air throttle and kept the King for cruise, would there be a second throttle cable attached also?  And if I pressed cruise, how would the King cable retract to hold the cruise speed.  Thanks so much for any clarification. 

Re: 1997 ForeTravel 36’ U295 [options to repair/replace King Throttle]

Reply #5 –
There are a few items regarding the King Control in the Media section that may help.

First is this excellent document
The selected media item is not currently available.

and a few documents for King Controls Throttle and Cruise
The selected media item is not currently available.

I don't know if what you have is covered by these, but always worth a look.

Re: 1997 ForeTravel 36’ U295 [options to repair/replace King Throttle]

Reply #6 –
Hello:
Thanks Dub, I am an avid reader of the Forum and the pleasure to have met a few.
The Air Throttle Bracket Kit to assist in the conversion to an Air Throttle is still available.
If the King Cruise still works, it maybe retained.
The only known replacement for Cruise Control, is the Rostra Universal Cruise Control.
We know one member here on the Forum is using the Rostra Cruise and one other Rostra Conversion was completed in Dallas on a Country Coach.
Happy to answer any question I can, keeping in mind, I am not a commercial shop.
Charles Young
cry42@windstream.net

Re: 1997 ForeTravel 36’ U295 [options to repair/replace King Throttle]

Reply #7 –
Good to see you are still with us Charles. My system has worked flawlessly with the help from you and John. If the new member decides to move forward I'm sure he will be contacting you. I wouldn't have tackled my conversion without your kit and couldn't recommend anyone without access to a machine shop to move forward, but you have the remedy for that.

Re: 1997 ForeTravel 36’ U295 [options to repair/replace King Throttle]

Reply #8 –
Quote from: mjcarmem –
Would like to know more as I'm starting to understand the King Box a bit more.  It controls the throttle AND the cruise - correct?  One of the two can go either the throttle or the cruise function and the other still functions?  Both of mine work, but I've had problems with losing the throttle function.  According to your post. I could add air throttle and keep the cruise function on the King by keeping the King Control box?  I'm trying to picture this as there is a throttle cable from King to engine.  If I added an air throttle and kept the King for cruise, would there be a second throttle cable attached also?  And if I pressed cruise, how would the King cable retract to hold the cruise speed.  Thanks so much for any clarification.
There is the answer concerning the mounting kit, complete with Charles's contact email. My email is dubmcbride@yahoo.com and I can discuss the various components and vendors with you.

Re: 1997 ForeTravel 36’ U295 [options to repair/replace King Throttle]

Reply #9 –
Our 97 has had the air throttle modification done and still has the king cruise control which thankfully is still working. It was that way when we bought it a couple of years ago.

Re: 1997 ForeTravel 36’ U295 [options to repair/replace King Throttle]

Reply #10 –
Trying to answer one of mjcarmem (name?) questions:

King control is only one unit and if any mechanical component fails there is no cruise or throttle.

King originally only added cruise to air throttle.  Then Lael King sold RV manufactures on his idea to modify King control board to add throttle pedal, and throttle position sensors (TPS), completely eliminating air throttle and Allison TPS hardware, a big win for all.

King uses a custom circuit board that takes in information from several sensors, sends throttle position sensor info to Allison transmission, and has a custom motor/clutch that slowly controls the throttle cable for driving and instantly releases the same cable when throttle is released, allowing an external pair of long springs to return injector pump throttle control back to idle position.

I would say most can retain the cruise function after adding air throttle, because the King still continues to function, but air was proactively installed. There are probably rare situations when throttle fails, and cruise still works.

Re: 1997 ForeTravel 36’ U295 [options to repair/replace King Throttle]

Reply #11 –
That explains it more.  I have the King Box with throttle and cruise combined, but it sounds like I can convert to air throttle and retain the King box for cruise.  Just trying to understand the actual "throttle cable" set up between the two if both are used. 

Re: 1997 ForeTravel 36’ U295 [options to repair/replace King Throttle]

Reply #12 –
Both cables are connected to the throttle arm of the engine.

Re: 1997 ForeTravel 36’ U295 [options to repair/replace King Throttle]

Reply #13 –
A somewhat simpler alternative with equal functionality to the other discussed options is a hydraulic throttle.  Pretty basic, hydraulic throttle, slave cylinder at end of single line to engine compartment.  I retain one in reserve for the unlikely event of King Control failure. 
I'd like to state that the King Control, while a royal pain upon chip cashing in, what an awesome, custom built piece of discrete electronics.  Closing on 30 years of flawless service in critical, life support level use.  Quality standards of a bygone era I suppose.

Re: 1997 ForeTravel 36’ U295 [options to repair/replace King Throttle]

Reply #14 –
Quote from: mjcarmem –
Just trying to understand the actual "throttle cable" set up between the two if both are used.
Quote from: red tractor –
Both cables are connected to the throttle arm of the engine.
It sounds (to me) like mjcarmem wants to know how the two separate devices coordinate the control of the throttle.

I have never actually seen this combination in action, but I would guess it is very similar to the way a throttle cable and a cruise control cable were attached to the carburetor throttle lever on old school hot rods.  I drew a simple diagram of how it might look.  Please don't judge my artistic skills.

The fuel control lever on the injection pump pivots up to allow fuel flow, and down to shut off fuel flow.  It is spring loaded to the down (closed) position.

The air throttle cable is attached to the fuel lever with a pivoting bolt.  This cable can pull the fuel lever open, or allow it to close, according to the in and out movement of the air cylinder piston.

The King control box is attached to the fuel lever by a slotted connector that moves up and down on a pin.  This cable can be retracted into the King box, which raises the fuel lever when the pin reaches the end of the slot.  If the cable is spooled out from the box, the fuel lever is pulled closed by the spring.

If the cruise control calls for a certain speed setting, the king box retracts the cable until the desired speed is maintained.  If the driver wants to go faster than the speed setting (like to pass another vehicle) then he applies more throttle pedal movement, which causes the air cylinder to pull up on the fuel lever.  The pin in the fuel lever can move UP in the slot on the cruise cable end, allowing speed to increase.  When the driver releases pressure on the throttle pedal, the air cylinder lets the fuel lever drop back down until the pin hits the end of the slot in the cruise cable, where it stops, resuming the speed set into the cruise control.

If the cruise control is turned off, the throttle cable is free to move the fuel lever up and down while the pin in the cruise control connector moves freely up and down in the slot.

This is how I would guess it works.  Anybody can feel free to correct me, or add to this explanation if it is lacking in some regard.

Re: 1997 ForeTravel 36’ U295 [options to repair/replace King Throttle]

Reply #15 –
Chuck, hydraulic cylinder option sounds interesting, but it will need the Allison Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) to notify the tranny for smooth shifts.  King has it built-in, another cost saving and clever circuit board design.
 

Re: 1997 ForeTravel 36’ U295 [options to repair/replace King Throttle]

Reply #16 –
Basic Air Throttle Conversion