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Topic: HWH Leveling - Stumped ? (Read 878 times) previous topic - next topic

HWH Leveling - Stumped ?

On our last outing, the HWH System started acting a little weird...........
The passenger front air bag, when in drive mode, would go up about an inch higher than the other bags.

Upon returning home, I rebuilt the front 6 pack thinking it was leaking on the raise solenoid causing the bag to be over inflated.
I did a full rebuild and then over several days, put the coach in numerous raised, lowered, and tilted positions letting it set for a few days at each position to see if anything leaked down.  Everything held air, no leaks detected.

However, when putting the HWH keypad in the OFF position, the Green Drive Mode light comes on, but when measuring the bags, again, the passenger front goes up from 1/2" to 1" higher than the rest. 
I can manually set all the bags to 8 1/2", then put into Drive Mode and it seems to stay at 8 1/2" until I drive several miles. After stopping to check, that right front bag is higher again.

Someone told me to order and change out the HWH Keypad which I am fine doing if anyone thinks that could be the problem.  My question there is, Is the HWH Keypad anything more than a bunch of lights and switches that send information "brain" elsewhere, or does the Keypad also contain a "brain" that does control the solenoids?

I am stumped on this one. 

Also, the Ride Height Valves are fairly new, and the rear bags are set to 8 1/2" on both sides.
Mark & Bev
2001 U295 36' Slide
Cummins ISC 8.3 350HP
Build #5802
Jeep Wrangler Toad

Re: HWH Leveling - Stumped ?

Reply #1 –
How about when manually letting air out of that corner - is it slower than the others?  Wondering if you have a mud dauber nest in the passenger front exhaust/dump port on the manifold block that's slowing air release or if one of the ride height valves has an internal restriction.

Normally when in travel mode, the raise and lower solenoids are overridden by the travel solenoid, and the bag height is dictated by the ride height valves (tough on the front side to side since there's only one front RH valve). 
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: HWH Leveling - Stumped ?

Reply #2 –
No, it raises and lowers at the same speed as the others. I also double checked to make sure everything was clear when I did the rebuild.
Wish there was a way to adjust the front height side to side, other than the rear bags.
Mark & Bev
2001 U295 36' Slide
Cummins ISC 8.3 350HP
Build #5802
Jeep Wrangler Toad

Re: HWH Leveling - Stumped ?

Reply #3 –
So when the travel valves are active and open the front drive height valve is in control of the shared front air bags. Possibly one is not open? I would drop fully then go to travel then measure, then raise fully and again return to travel and remeasure. If they both return to the same difference then it is being driven by the rear drive height valves. You would hear the body components popping and cracking while it is twisting. If it is actually stressing the coach. I still would be looking closer at the rear ride height valves and how level the ground is when checking. If you're still confident that the front bags are running at different pressures then I would recommend putting a pressure gauge on both the left and right air bags to prove one way or the other. The rear air bags do run at different pressures because of weight and outside forces like wind and G forces. Front tires the same diameter?
If another solenoid is leaking the travel solenoids should still balance and ride height should overcome the difference
Scott

Re: HWH Leveling - Stumped ?

Reply #4 –
Are you on perfectly flat ground? Your front ride-height control valve is at the center of the axle and is going to try to achieve the set height (8.5") at the center. So, if you're on uneven ground it's essentially going to try and average the height of the two sides, meaning one will be higher and one will be lower. If the one side is achieving 8.5", it could be that that is the "low" side and you just need to adjust the linkage on the front RHCV.

A quick(ish) test would be to turn the coach around 180 degrees with the front wheels in the same location and see if the problem moves to the other side of the coach.
1987 Grand Villa ORED
2001 U320 4010

Not all that wander are lost... but I often am.

Re: HWH Leveling - Stumped ?

Reply #5 –
Mark,
    I am watching this thread closely as I have been battling this problem as well for over ten years. I have done everything you can imagine but still my front bags are off as much as two inches. Even had FOT try to fix it and they were not able to. Hope you can figure it out.

Mark
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Mark and Tanya
Milton , Florida
US Navy Veteran (DV)
1999 U270 Special 40' CAI , 2015 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

Re: HWH Leveling - Stumped ?

Reply #6 –
Scott, yes, I have done full raise and full lower several times. While the difference is very slight, the front right always goes higher than the left, and both sides in the rear are 8.5".

Elliott, yes on level ground (in the garage, level concrete floor).

This just started happening on my last trip out. My Ride Height Valve linkage hasn't moved. When the new RHV's were installed a couple of years ago, I painted the linkage after adjusting and they are still in the same spot.

One thing I am going to do is put in new Pressure Switch on the right side of the six pack and see if anything changes.

Thats why my other question is about the keypad.  Does anyone know if it reads anything and sends a signal to anything i.e more pressure possibly causing the right side to get more air ?  Thinking about getting a new keypad to see if it does anything.

My next step is to rebuild the rear six pack, triple check everything for leaks, recheck the ride height starting with the rear, and then go from there.  Just not sure what else it could be.
Mark & Bev
2001 U295 36' Slide
Cummins ISC 8.3 350HP
Build #5802
Jeep Wrangler Toad

Re: HWH Leveling - Stumped ?

Reply #7 –
Quote from: MarkC –
Thats why my other question is about the keypad.
1. Does anyone know if it reads anything and sends a signal to anything i.e more pressure possibly causing the right side to get more air ? 
2. Thinking about getting a new keypad to see if it does anything.
3. Just not sure what else it could be.
4. I have done full raise and full lower several times. While the difference is very slight, the front right always goes higher than the left, and both sides in the rear are 8.5".

Mark,

1. In travel mode No. The ride height valve does all the air adjusting.
2. I doubt it will do anything but empty your wallet in fixing the problem.
3. & 4. Here in may be the hint that you may have a galled bolt on the left front trailing arm/torque tube bushing.  This can cause the ride height valve to see the front as low and it adds air to raise the front to spec. With the added air the free side (right side in your case) will raise to compensate for the left side lagging behind. Even if you manually raise/lower you may not be able to tell if this is the problem (except the difference you have stated) until you pull the bolts out and give them a good look.
This is what I found when I had a problem with symptoms similar to yours.

Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: HWH Leveling - Stumped ?

Reply #8 –
Thanks Mike, I would have never thought of something like that.
Now another dumb question.....By chance does anyone have a schematic or picture showing where that would be.
I've never worked on that area but am ready to jump in.

Thanks to all for your responses.  I'll let you know my results if I'm able identify it.
Mark & Bev
2001 U295 36' Slide
Cummins ISC 8.3 350HP
Build #5802
Jeep Wrangler Toad

Re: HWH Leveling - Stumped ?

Reply #9 –
MAZ, just wanted to follow up on this for you.
It looks like the issue was a bad travel solenoid. I had replaced the pressure switch on the 6-pack and that made no difference. I had the front end checked out and everything was good with nothing binding.
I rebuilt the entire 6-pack using one of Tom's kits and still had the same issue.
Finally decided to get new solenoids and see what happened. I'm guessing that the Travel Solenoid must have still been bad even after the rebuild.
I've made a few short trips, and all seems good.
The really good news is that while working on this, I went front to back checking every line, fitting, connection, etc. for leaks. When doing that, I decided to throw a bunch on new parts in, Norgren Valves for the steps, several pressure and check valves, tank fittings, regulators, Ride Height Valves, and several connectors. (My spare parts box has grown significantly)
Now when parked and on Auto Level, both front and rear tanks stay at full pressure for several days. While we are obviously not in the coach around the clock, neither I or the wife have heard the compressor run and the coach stays level just like when we parked it.
Today, after being parked back in the garage for 3 weeks on Auto Level, checked the pressure, and still full, and haven't heard the compressor run.
Hopefully, it stays this way for a while.
Mark & Bev
2001 U295 36' Slide
Cummins ISC 8.3 350HP
Build #5802
Jeep Wrangler Toad

Re: HWH Leveling - Stumped ?

Reply #10 –
Thanks Mark for the follow up but I have swapped the travel solenoids and the symptom stays the same so my problem must be different. 

Mark
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Mark and Tanya
Milton , Florida
US Navy Veteran (DV)
1999 U270 Special 40' CAI , 2015 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

Re: HWH Leveling - Stumped ?

Reply #11 –
Well, still scratching my head on a few things.
Took a long trip and everything seemed fine after all the work I did.  Now something I've noticed is that when dumping all the air from the bags, all 4 rear bags, and the front left 2 bags go completely soft. When the coach is sitting on the metal stops, you can squeeze those 6 bags and they are completely empty.
However, the 2 right front bags don't go soft. The coach is fully down sitting on the stops, but those 2 bags are still hard and have air in them. Just to check, I removed the line from one of the bags and then they too went soft.

This seems to also be affecting the front ride height. Both rears are set at 8.5 inches, but the front still sits about 3/4" off from right to left. No matter what we try, we can't get the left and right to equalize at 8.5" on both sides.

Any idea why this is happening? All the solenoids on the 6 pack seem to be working fine. We even switched solenoids and coils around just to see what happens and the still had the same issue.  Is it possible that the main control box is sending a bad signal to the right dump solenoid. Not sure what else could be causing this.

I've been talking with Keith Reisch trying to figure it out, and we've tried everything. Of course it's tough for him trying to diagnose over the phone.  I'm probably going to drive it down for him to take a look at, but was hoping before I make the 2000 mile round trip, someone may have an idea?  It's got me stumped again.
Mark & Bev
2001 U295 36' Slide
Cummins ISC 8.3 350HP
Build #5802
Jeep Wrangler Toad

Re: HWH Leveling - Stumped ?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: MarkC –
Well, still scratching my head on a few things.
Took a long trip and everything seemed fine after all the work I did.  Now something I've noticed is that when dumping all the air from the bags, all 4 rear bags, and the front left 2 bags go completely soft. When the coach is sitting on the metal stops, you can squeeze those 6 bags and they are completely empty.
However, the 2 right front bags don't go soft. The coach is fully down sitting on the stops, but those 2 bags are still hard and have air in them. Just to check, I removed the line from one of the bags and then they too went soft.

Have you checked the dump/exhaust port of the 6 pack manifold for the front right bags?  I wonder if you have some dirt dauber "cloggage" preventing the right front from exhausting completely.  You might need to gently dig with an opened paper clip - daubers can get pretty deep and you might not see it right at the surface.
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: HWH Leveling - Stumped ?

Reply #13 –
Thanks Michelle, Yes, that was one of the first things we thought of. But port is clear and blows air out without obsruction.
Mark & Bev
2001 U295 36' Slide
Cummins ISC 8.3 350HP
Build #5802
Jeep Wrangler Toad
 

Re: HWH Leveling - Stumped ?

Reply #14 –
I would swap the pressure switches on the front manifold, Right to left and left to right just to see if anything changes.
When you get to the point where one front corner sits down on the hard stop the 10 psi pressure switches get involved.
John Duld
1995 U320C SE 40'