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Left side won’t lower

Today I raised the coach all the way to block the frame, but when I tried to lower it down onto the blocks using the switches on the HWH panel the left side would not go down. The right side lowered normally. I found a fuse (F10) in the HWH system that was blown, but replacing it did not change anything. I tried raising again and lowering, but the left still won't move. I then momentarily disengaged the parking brake so the coach would try to go to travel mode, and the left side then lowered along with the right. Any thoughts on what I should look for?
Dave and Kathy Bennett
2004 U270
Build #6253
1600W Solar
700 AH Battle Born Lithium
2015 Jeep Wrangler

No matter what happens, remember you always get the trip out of it.

Re: Left side won’t lower

Reply #1 –
Are you saying left side front and back?

If so, you are dealing with 2 different 6 packs, one for front and one for back.  Only thing common is the controller
2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: Left side won’t lower

Reply #2 –
Check the manifold block underneath the coach with the solenoid valves. There should be small 1/4" (approximately) exhaust ports. I have had this issue and many others, wasps plug the holes with mud. Just clean the holes out.

Could be your issue.
John Hobbs
1995 U300 SE
M11 / Retarder
Private toilet
1 of 1
Wichita, Ks

Re: Left side won’t lower

Reply #3 –
Quote from: turbojack –
Are you saying left side front and back?

If so, you are dealing with 2 different 6 packs, one for front and one for back.  Only thing common is the controller
Yes, left side front and back. It seems unlikely that it is anything to do with the 6 packs; my thought is the controller as well, but I was hoping someone might have dealt with this and found some other problem.
Dave and Kathy Bennett
2004 U270
Build #6253
1600W Solar
700 AH Battle Born Lithium
2015 Jeep Wrangler

No matter what happens, remember you always get the trip out of it.

Re: Left side won’t lower

Reply #4 –
To clarify some details -

What process did you use to raise the coach all the way up and then try to lower it initially?  Individual sides/corners or everything at one (Raise button/Dump button)?

After you went into travel mode successfully, were you then able to level/raise/lower both sides with no issues?
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Left side won’t lower

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Michelle –
To clarify some details -

What process did you use to raise the coach all the way up and then try to lower it initially?  Individual sides/corners or everything at one (Raise button/Dump button)?

After you went into travel mode successfully, were you then able to level/raise/lower both sides with no issues?
I originally used the raise button to raise it all the way up. I then placed my frame blocks and tried to lower it using the dump button. I like to lower it just enough that the frame is down on the steel blocks but so that the air bags are still inflated. I have always done it this way without problems. This time, the right side went down, but not the left. After I went into travel mode, the left side also lowered onto the blocks. I then worked underneath, and when I was finished I was able to use the raise button to raise both sides to remove the blocks. When I tried to lower the coach using the dump button, only the right side went down. I tried lowering the left side using the side and corner buttons, but that did not work either. I again went into travel mode and the coach went to normal ride height. I tried lowering it from there, but still the left side would not go down. At that point, with the left side at travel height and the right side fully lowered, I used the automatic leveling. The coach did level, but the left side did not move; the right side came up to level the coach.
Dave and Kathy Bennett
2004 U270
Build #6253
1600W Solar
700 AH Battle Born Lithium
2015 Jeep Wrangler

No matter what happens, remember you always get the trip out of it.

Re: Left side won’t lower

Reply #6 –
Sounds like a bad board.

Need to put call into HWH, give the person answering the phone you coach number and short description of the problem  you will get a call back one day. Explain what you said in above post. He may give you some tips and tell you what to look for. While you have him on phone ask for rma so it you need to send board off you will not have to make another call.
2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: Left side won’t lower

Reply #7 –
I have to agree with Turbojack, unfortunately.  If it lowered OK when it went into travel mode, it's not the dump solenoids or the dump ports.  And since it leveled OK (raising the right side up to match the travel-height-stuck left side), it's not the level sensor board. 

The only thing I might try before calling HWH is pulling the control and cleaning the contacts/checking connections, but it does sounds like one of the boards in the "tackle boxes" in the basement.

FYI, there is a guy from HWH, azpete, who frequents iRV2.  I don't know how much he knows about their air leveling, but it sounds like he's at least responsive to questions about hydraulic leveling and might be able to help you troubleshoot which board it is:  HWH support wait times - iRV2 Forums
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Left side won’t lower

Reply #8 –
It could possibly be one of the pressure switches too. Probably not, but they do come into play and limit you from lowering certain sides of the coach at times. I'm inclined to agree with the others regarding a bad board but knowing how challenging it's going to be for you to get remote support from HWH, it might be worth the Hail Mary In the short term.
1987 Grand Villa ORED
2001 U320 4010

Not all that wander are lost... but I often am.

Re: Left side won’t lower

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Elliott –
It could possibly be one of the pressure switches too. Probably not, but they do come into play and limit you from lowering certain sides of the coach at times. I'm inclined to agree with the others regarding a bad board but knowing how challenging it's going to be for you to get remote support from HWH, it might be worth the Hail Mary In the short term.
I am willing to try anything, although this problem is not too bad since it won't keep me from driving or leveling. Where do I find the pressure switches?
Dave and Kathy Bennett
2004 U270
Build #6253
1600W Solar
700 AH Battle Born Lithium
2015 Jeep Wrangler

No matter what happens, remember you always get the trip out of it.

Re: Left side won’t lower

Reply #10 –
Quote from: dbennett9 –
I am willing to try anything, although this problem is not too bad since it won't keep me from driving or leveling. Where do I find the pressure switches?
We will benefit from adding @Chuck & Jeannie to the conversation because I have forgotten the nuances of those pressure switches now. But you have two on the front six pack and if they don't register at least 10 psi on one side, they won't let the other side lower IIRC.  it's conceivable that one could be giving a bad reading and therefore, the computer would prevent you from lowering one side.

Edit: or does it prevent you from raising one side? I can't remember now and don't have access to a computer where the troubleshooting manual is. I'm on a work trip right now and can get it to you when I get home this weekend if someone else doesn't chime in first.
1987 Grand Villa ORED
2001 U320 4010

Not all that wander are lost... but I often am.

Re: Left side won’t lower

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Elliott –
I have forgotten the nuances of those pressure switches now.
Reading the above descriptions of symptoms, I don't think the 10psi pressure switches (on the front HWH manifold) have anything to do with this situation, but as Elliott says anything is possible.  The two front pressure switches are supposed to prevent "twisting" of the frame in unusual leveling circumstances.  If one front corner of the coach is lowered all the way down (air bag pressures less than 10psi) then the "lower" signal on the opposite front corner is inhibited.  Text below copied from HWH Leveling System Text Book:

EXAMPLE: While pushing the right side lower button, the right
front air pressure switch sees low air pressure. The front low-
er button is then pushed. The right front lower solenoid valve
will turn on and open, but the left front lower solenoid valve
will not turn on. The left front bag will not lower. This is done
to prevent the front of the vehicle from twisting. If one side
of the front of the vehicle is as low as it can go, lowering the
other side will twist the vehicle.

Since the front pressure switches only control the lowering function in the front corners, even if one of them went wonky, I would think the rear bags on the left side would still deflate normally.

How to test the front pressure switches, or take them out of the circuit?  I believe they are NO (normally open) switches.  When the switch sees pressure below 10psi the internal contacts close, which completes a ground circuit to the control box.  If that is correct, to bypass the switch just remove one of the wires.  Then, even if the switch was stuck in the "closed" position, it can't have any effect on the system operation.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Left side won’t lower

Reply #12 –
I don't know what HWH system is used in Dave's 2004 U270 so I can't give specific advice.  However, my generic advice any time unusual problems arise with the HWH system is always the same, as follows:
1.  Determine what HWH system is under discussion.
2.  Locate the operator's manual for that system (either in the coach owner's manual set, or online).
3.  See if the manual has a trouble shooting section.  If so, follow the trouble shooting steps exactly in sequence.
4.  If the manual does not contain a trouble shooting section, then I recommend the action below (from HWH 600 Series Service Manual):

First, test the system operation in manual mode:

4.MANUAL OPERATION: With the system on, the manual up and down arrows should function. These buttons are momentary buttons. Releasing the button will stop the function. Each set of arrows operate pairs of air bags, front, rear, or sides. There are two air manifolds. One for the front air bags and one for the rear air bags. Each manifold has six air solenoid valves. A right and left raise valve, a right and left lower valve and a right and left travel valve. (See MP75.4515). The travel solenoids are tied together electrically in the harnesses and should be on if the ignition is in the "ON" position and the system is off. The front manifold has a right and left air pressure switch. When the pressure in one front air bag drops to approximately 10 psi, the opposite side front air bags will be inhibited from exhausting any more air whether in automatic leveling, pushing a down arrow in manual leveling or pushing the "DUMP" button. The rear manifold has one pressure switch for both sides and will not interfere with the function of the leveling system. The pressure switches complete ground signals. When an up arrow is pushed a +12 signal is sent to the auxiliary air compressor and the corresponding raise solenoid on the air manifolds. The raise valves open the air bags to inflate lifting the coach. The air compressor will only run as the system pressure drops.
When a down arrow is pushed a +12 signal is sent to the corresponding lower solenoids. The lower valves will open allowing the air bags to deflate lowering the coach.
Test each set of up and down arrows checking that the appropriate air bags will inflate and deflate and that the auxiliary compressor will run during the raise function.
If there is any malfunction see Part 4 of the REPAIR STEPS.

Dave has tested his system in manual operation.  He says "When I tried to lower the coach using the dump button, only the right side went down. I tried lowering the left side using the side and corner buttons, but that did not work either."  Therefore, the next step is found in Part 4 of REPAIR STEPS:

1.  Check the fuse for the appropriate lower solenoid valve.  (In this case, check fuses for both front and rear left side lower solenoids, since both lower solenoids on the left side are not responding)  If the fuse is blown the solenoid valve or the power wire for the solenoid valve is shorted.

2.  If the fuse is not blown check for power on the corresponding pin in the control box. If power is not present, replace the control box. If power is present on the pin, the problem is the wire to the valve, the ground for the valve, or the valve. Check for power in the harness plug. If it is a 2 - wire plug check between the two pins in the plug. If it is a 1 - wire plug check between the plug and ground. If power is present check the ground for the solenoid if it is a 1 - wire plug. Replace the valve if power is present and the ground is OK. If power is not present a wire or connection is bad. If a 2-wire plug is used the white wire is ground. Check for power between the colored wire and a frame member. If power is present repair the ground wire. If power is not present repair the colored wire.

My armchair guess is Dave's problem will be due to a loss of electrical signal somewhere between the HWH touch control panel and the HWH brain box.  The signal from the control panel telling the front and rear lower solenoids on the left side to open is not reaching the solenoids.  The above trouble shooting steps will verify the condition of the fuses and wires.  If that stuff looks OK, then (as noted by the bold text in Step 2 above) it will likely be a bad component or board in the brain box.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Left side won’t lower

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
I don't know what HWH system is used in Dave's 2004 U270 so I can't give specific advice.  However, my generic advice any time unusual problems arise with the HWH system is the same, as follows:
1.  Determine what HWH system is under discussion.
2.  Locate the operator's manual for that system (either in the coach owner's manual set, or online).
3.  See if the manual has a trouble shooting section.  If so, follow the trouble shooting steps exactly in sequence.
4.  If the manual does not contain a trouble shooting section, then I recommend the action below (from HWH 600 Series Service Manual):


in a 2004 it should be the 2000 series without room locks

Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Left side won’t lower

Reply #14 –
Quote from: dbennett9 –
I am willing to try anything, although this problem is not too bad since it won't keep me from driving or leveling.
Ive drove across the states without the computer. Have you checked the exhaust ports? You have verified the travel system works. No need to look at it any more. Are you getting power to the suspect dump solenoids. Yes? Bad solenoids or plugged exhaust. No? Check for bad fuse. Could also check for power coming out of box by back probing the connector for the dump solenoid. Got power but not at solenoids, you have isolated it to a wiring problem. No power, no bad fuse, bad circuit in HWH controller.

Re: Left side won’t lower

Reply #15 –
I appreciate all the suggestions. Unfortunately, today I wasn't able to follow up on any of them because I was working on some other issues. Hopefully I can try some of them in the next few days.
Dave and Kathy Bennett
2004 U270
Build #6253
1600W Solar
700 AH Battle Born Lithium
2015 Jeep Wrangler

No matter what happens, remember you always get the trip out of it.

Re: Left side won’t lower

Reply #16 –
You might try a different phone line between the HWH control pad and the computer just to be sure the existing wire isn't failing to carry the left side dump signal from the control pad to the computer.
John Duld
1995 U320C SE 40'
 

Re: Left side won’t lower

Reply #17 –
Quote from: John Duld –
You might try a different phone line between the HWH control pad and the computer just to be sure the existing wire isn't failing to carry the left side dump signal from the control pad to the computer.
I have not tried a different line, but when the button on the pad is pushed, the appropriate LEDs light up on the circuit board in the basement, which would seem to indicate the signal is getting through. I also checked for voltage at the connector just before the solenoid and didn't get anything. Foretravel sent me some diagrams with pin numbers so I can check the output of the computer, but I haven't had time to check.
Dave and Kathy Bennett
2004 U270
Build #6253
1600W Solar
700 AH Battle Born Lithium
2015 Jeep Wrangler

No matter what happens, remember you always get the trip out of it.