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Topic: Steering gearbox leak (Read 2589 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #25 –
As we have a U320 42' with the 12kw generator, our generator radiator and fan are in the side bay.  I removed the fan today to make room to access the steering gear.  This was not easy!  Only 6 bolts but one of them had to be cut with an angle grinder.  Even after that the fan unit was stuck to the rubber belting on the wall very well.  Lots of prying.  And then it was like origami figuring out how to maneuver that heavy thing out of there.  I will certainly have to censor that portion of the video.  I was originally cursing Foretravel using just regular nuts/bolts to hold the assembly in but then I realized if I removed the docking light all the nuts were reachable and once I saw the condition of the hardware I am glad I'll be able to use all new hardware.

This is primarily because one of my generator hoses in the rear is leaking apparently and so I am going to replace all hoses, coolant and paint the generator squirrel cage fan (and probably the inside of that bay sheet metal.  Should look pretty nice when I am done!

I'll definitely be relocating the fan capacitor to the front side though.  I don't need to be pulling that unit for a simple capacitor replacement eventually.

Now at least I'll be able to get back to the steering box work.

Also I watched someone on youtube do the sector shaft seals.  I am really not sure how you can do it without pulling the sector shaft.  Now that said you might be able to pull the sector shaft in place.  For my part I decided I think I will send it in to redhead. 

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #26 –
So I have a sore throat today and took my first sick day that I can recall. Got up late and and worked on coach for a bit. Removed sector shaft by tapping were pitman arm goes. Removed cap and finally got to see failed seal. They had a blue backup ring that had disintegrated. Removed and cleaned both seal areas. The one in the cap is easy and the other isn't. Still doable. Installed seal in cap without issue.[ would recommend only using one hand to learn how to install other side one handed, I was not able to use two hands on other side ] The other was a pain in the Butt. The seal is a two piece seal with a nylon backup ring that faces outward to spread and support the double chevron seal. Probably attempted twenty times and you are doing this blind. I was actually laying under the front of the coach under the cap. Started repeating the signs of insanity. Doing the same thing and expecting different results. I had tried doing from behind generator, from inside the box from the in front of the cooling fan. And multiple  different ways. No joy. Feeling I was nearing the end of being able to remove the separated seal and reassemble and reinstall. I was back under the cap and got it the 85% installed and swapped to my left hand and it slid right in. Almost in amazement I went and viewed threw the center from the  outside and it was finally in correct. The slot the seals go onto was left sharp when manufacturer built box. If the sharp edge was removed it would be easier to prevent damaging seal during installation. I seriously recommend getting two sets of the seals if your planning on resealing without removing gearbox. Reassembled gearbox paying attention to the sector Alignment and the Pitman arm alignment. Retorqued Pitman arm mount bolt and set safety tabs. Sidenote I did not drain the oil reservoir and it had a steady stream the entire time. Serviced reservoir to full and fired up the ISM to leak check. All is good now. Leak check OK. This is a doable job without removing the gearbox but the inner seal is quite difficult to get correct. Total time today to close everything back up was about three hours. Won't be able to take it for a test drive for a couple days but I'm not anticipating any other issues. Never removed steering wheel components. Per the manual. Made and installed cover panel for cutout area. Total cost under $100 including puller
Scott

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #27 –
You've inspired me to try to do the seals in place.  I am at the perfect spot in the job to try it and the service hole in the side of my generator box is huge so I should be able to get access to both sides.  Just ordered the seals.

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #28 –
We really need to have a understandable difficulty rating. The inside seal (pitman arm side) was accessed between the boxes. I tried but couldn't  do thru my new access. Of my coworkers I would suspect less that 10% would be able to do this. It is clearly a pain to do. I definitely recommend removing the sharp edge although I didn't. I also recommend ordering a spare set of seals hoping to give to someone else, also I didn't order. If you are advanced at difficult mechanical puzzles doing them blindfolded and compelled to compleat because it actually has been done in a out of position places and willing to use both left and right hands and you feel lucky I thing you will be able to accomplish. I did. BUT don't take any bets of completion. If you do open up betting I want in on it. This would IMO be at the end of the pain scale, however much, much less work and money if you can accomplish.  Also draining the reservoir would reduce some of the difficulties rating, but does add to the entire challenge. Again I didn't drain. Lol CHALLENGE is a appropriate word.
Scott

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #29 –
Using the search function here. Look for a posting on "seal replacement" in June/July 2019 a member was at a west coast park. Had his seals go out. He did his on site. Might have good info.
1999 U270 40 #5518
USN. USPS.

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #30 –
Quote from: Texhub –
Using the search function here. Look for a posting on "seal replacement" in June/July 2019 a member was at a west coast park. Had his seals go out. He did his on site. Might have good info.
Bit by the Sheppard M100 bug
That is the easy one. Not the hard one. The cap on the sector took me ten minutes and zero pain. Actually could do without removing pitman arm.
Scott

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #32 –
Quote from: Mark D –
And that is not the one that is leaking on mine.  It's the hard one ;)
They both are failing. Zoom in on the pictures and you can see the blue seal back up ring chunks. They both should be changed. The Cap side could be done on the side of the road without issue. IMO

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #33 –
I've done the job on mine.  First of all you are correct, both seals were beyond finished.  Secondly I wasn't able to achieve 350ft/lbs of torque on the pitman arm bolt.  Right about 330-340 but when I bumped the wrench to 350 I just couldn't do it.  I'm going to call it good and if it's ever over a pit I'll have whoever is in there finish that. 

Anyway, I had a lot of trouble with the inner seal which I started with.  It kept falling apart.  The teflon part separated from the rubber part.  They don't appear to be bonded in any way.  I finally gave up and separated them.  I installed the rubber part and then installed the teflon part into the rubber part.  Worked like a charm.  The cap seal went in without the teflon part coming out of the rubber part.
 Removing the generator fan gave me the ability to reach around the other side of the box so one hand went through one side and the other on the other side.  I had full visual on the inner seal as well as the ability to manipulate the seal with both hands.  Highly recommend removing the generator fan even though that was a beast.

I was unable to get the hydraulic fittings to swivel properly so it was trying to twist the hose.  Therefore I was unable to remove the hose and cap it so I had oil draining the whole time.  I strategically placed a funnel below the steering box cap area which directed the oil flow into my drain pan.  I lost maybe 2-3 quarts over the course of a day.  No big deal.  I didn't even bother to top it off for testing.  The nice thing is that the continual oil flow flushed out anything that may have landed in there that shouldn't.

I was unable to get the cap off without a chain vice grip.  I'm not sure what I would have done without that.  I was also unable to get the cap back on without the assistance of a sledge hammer and a 2x4.  I might have been getting tired, who knows.

My box had some goo in it on the bottom (not much at all).  I suppose that't not entirely unexpected.  It looked a bit like water or grease.  There was a bit of metallic dust as well probably from general wear on the teeth.  It's interesting that the oil doesn't really circulate much in there. 

There were a few snafus with the video.  I had a full card at one point and didn't realize it so I missed the aha moment when the inner seal went in.  I also missed starting the camera when the wife was helping me test so we missed all that.  But it appears to be leak free.  Time will tell once the oil is nice and hot and the coach is actually driven.  Thanks for blazing a trail dsd.  I really think doing the seals in place without dropping the box is THE way to go (at least for low mileage coaches like mine where a full box rebuild might be questionable.)

It'll probably take me a few weeks or longer to turn the video around.  I have to now install all new generator coolant hoses, generator engine mounts on the rear (finally, they are completely toast), oil pressure switch, and generator box insulation.  So I'll probably be filming all that first and then making 2 videos from the footage from both jobs.  I'm very happy that this all went down the way it did.  The ability to do this at my leisure with no impending trips and finding leaking generator cooling hoses before any damage occurred is priceless.  We almost always use the coach in hot weather so the generator is critical to my sanity.  The hoses were leaking because the exhaust burned them btw.  So something worth checking/keeping an eye on.  I'll have to figure out how to separate them or insulate the cooling hoses from the exhaust heat.

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #34 –
I had the same trouble with the coolant hoses hitting the exhaust too. I rapped a
rope around the coolant hoses and put a pulley at the top of the back generator
enclosure and when I push the generator back in I pull on the rope and made a clip
to go over the front of the roof of the generator cover. It works well. 
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #35 –
Quote from: Mark D –
It kept falling apart.  The teflon part separated from the rubber part.  They don't appear to be bonded in any way.  I finally gave up and separated them.  I installed the rubber part and then installed the teflon part into the rubber part.  Worked like a charm.  The cap seal went in without the teflon part coming out of the rubber part.

That is great to hear. The way the seals I had interlocked led me to believe that I couldn't engage the Teflon backup ring once it was installed. But if it's in that's all that matters, there is more than one way to do anything. I glad to see you didn't skimp on the oil wash part of the challenge. You may have been able to drain the tank but there still is oil in the lines. I can see that removing the fan would help. I'm still saying this is a advanced skills project for most, but is doable. Hopefully I will only have a couple more boxes to replace seals in.
Scott

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #36 –
Thanks for the info.

Is there a remote oil reservoir located somewhere I could/should check the level?

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #37 –
Answered back in your original posting

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #38 –
Scott,
Do you think the steering gear would be hard to do a rebuild at home, I've looked at the exploded comic in my manual and I don't see anything that complex, am I missing something ?
88 Grand Villa 36' ORED 3208 (throwaway)Cat.
 Build # 3150
Happiness is the maximum agreement of reality and desire.

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #39 –
So as I understand the balls come in different sizes to accommodate how worn everything is. So yes you could do at home but having six different sets of different sized balls would become no longer cost effective. If its not sloppy you would be good. You also could disassemble and mic out what you need then order I guess. Also im hoping that the tech doing the blueprinting has a good knowledge on what needs to be done to get good results. IE its craft fully fitting together not just assembling. Not a job I want to do once let alone twice or more
Scott

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #40 –
Resurrecting this thread from last year to see if anyone can confirm the correct sector shaft seal kit that they used (thinking Scott or Mark D.)  The Ebay links in this thread are no longer functional.  It seems that the Sheppard number is 5545741 and the Sheppard brand kit is at Find it Parts for $125.  There are many generic seal kits on Ebay that come up under that part number and they all seem to have pictures with different looking contents in the kit.  If someone has had success with one of these maybe you can point me to the seller that you purchased from.
George Mann
2002 U320 #5934
2017 Rubicon
2013 BMW GS
Waterford MI

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #41 –
George.  I was at Chalk Truck Parts this week and visited with Chris.  Call him and he can answer all questions, has all parts and can rebuild the box.  Please share my name.  (713) 672-6344
Rudy Legett
2003 U320 4010 ISM 450 hp
2001 U320 4220 ISM 450 hp
1995 U320 M11 400 hp
1990 Granvilla 300 hp 3208T
Aqua Hot Service Houston and Southeast Texas

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #42 –
Quote from: Geodmann –
Resurrecting this thread from last year to see if anyone can confirm the correct sector shaft seal kit that they used (thinking Scott or Mark D.)  The Ebay links in this thread are no longer functional.  It seems that the Sheppard number is 5545741 and the Sheppard brand kit is at Find it Parts for $125.  There are many generic seal kits on Ebay that come up under that part number and they all seem to have pictures with different looking contents in the kit.  If someone has had success with one of these maybe you can point me to the seller that you purchased from.
I bought a kit before deciding to have mine rebuilt. It will take a couple of hours to check my spares and see if it is the Sheppard brand and part number. If it is I would sell it for $100.00.

Checked and it is just in a zip-loc bag labeled M-100 sector shaft seal kit. If it had come from Sheppard I would have kept it in the original packaging. I would not want to put someone else in the position of using it.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #43 –
Thanks for checking on that Chuck.  I think Scott and Mark both used seal kits from Ebay and those seem to run about $45 compared to over $100 for the Sheppard kit.  I'm comfortable using a generic kit I just want to make sure I'm getting the right one.  I think I'll just select the best looking option on Ebay and hope for the best.
George Mann
2002 U320 #5934
2017 Rubicon
2013 BMW GS
Waterford MI

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #44 –
I bought a sector shaft seal kit off of EBay. I replaced the seals several weeks ago. I watched the utube that Mark D had about changing the seals and it worked out great.
previous 1984 35 ft ORED 250 HP 3208 Cat       
previous 1998 40 ft U295 CAI 325 hp Cummins
previous 2003 40 Ft u320 build #6140 450 Cummins M11.                                                         
1999 Mazda Miata
Ron, Nancy, Tipper the cat, Max The dog
1997 U 270 36 ft build number 5174 8.3 Cummins

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #46 –
Mark, thanks for reposting the video.  I'm on my way back from a Michigan to Oregon trip and my steering gearbox is really starting to leak  badly.  Haven't had to top off the hydraulic oil yet and I'm 7 hours from home so I think I'll get home OK.  Glad I bought the seals and I'll plan to start on this project this weekend.  Any additional advice you have to offer from your experience would be greatly appreciated.  Has yours remained leak free since you replaced the seals and if so how many miles have you put on it?

On a good note, looks like my trip will be around 5300 miles in total and I've been getting as high as 8.5 mpg and in the mountains around 7.25.  I'm pleased with that and other than the steering leak the coach has run like a sewing machine.
George Mann
2002 U320 #5934
2017 Rubicon
2013 BMW GS
Waterford MI

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #47 –
I watched that video and replaced the sector shaft seals on our 97 u270 and so far no leaks.
previous 1984 35 ft ORED 250 HP 3208 Cat       
previous 1998 40 ft U295 CAI 325 hp Cummins
previous 2003 40 Ft u320 build #6140 450 Cummins M11.                                                         
1999 Mazda Miata
Ron, Nancy, Tipper the cat, Max The dog
1997 U 270 36 ft build number 5174 8.3 Cummins

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #48 –
I think im at about 6k miles without any issues.
 

Re: Steering gearbox leak

Reply #49 –
Quote from: Geodmann –
Mark, thanks for reposting the video.  I'm on my way back from a Michigan to Oregon trip and my steering gearbox is really starting to leak  badly.  Haven't had to top off the hydraulic oil yet and I'm 7 hours from home so I think I'll get home OK.  Glad I bought the seals and I'll plan to start on this project this weekend.  Any additional advice you have to offer from your experience would be greatly appreciated.  Has yours remained leak free since you replaced the seals and if so how many miles have you put on it?

On a good note, looks like my trip will be around 5300 miles in total and I've been getting as high as 8.5 mpg and in the mountains around 7.25.  I'm pleased with that and other than the steering leak the coach has run like a sewing machine.

Mine started leaking in Michigan and actually put a bucket to capture leaked oil. 20/20 hindsite I should have dropped a rag over it to control the direction of the leak into the bucket. I had oil mist up about five feet high on the left side of the coach. Dont forget that this is a great time to drain and replace the filters inside the reservoir. We drove back to southern Nevada with it leaking.