Replacing those 8D batteries?

Topic: Replacing those 8D batteries? (Read 1633 times) previous topic - next topic

Replacing those 8D batteries?

November 05, 2023, 08:12:17 pm

I probably spend too much time looking and tracking battery tech/releases etc.

Been running a few kinds of lithium over the years in different rigs all have performed well, i thought my current Lithionics were the best yet, well here's another contender.

Along with the Battleborn 8D's come along another much larger capacity unit, still an 8D but this had some impressive specs. And 460ah in one battery.

Epoch batteries. Now on sale

LiFePO4 Chemistry
Group 8D Size (20.9" x 8.7" x 12.1") L x W x H
460Ah Capacity
300A Max Continuous Discharge (500A 30s Discharge)
230A Max Continuous Charge (300A 10s Charge)
IP67 Rated, Dust and WATERPROOF
HEATED - Internal heating for below 0C charging
BLUETOOTH - iOS and Android Apps
CANBUS Communication allows BMS to communicate directly with Victron OS
Mountable ON/OFF Switch
Mountable Battery gauge
Optional mounting brackets
Built-in Smart Battery Management System (BMS)
Over charge and over discharge protection
Over current and short circuit protection
High & low temperature disconnects
3500+ Cycle life & Maintenance-free
11 Year Manufacturer Warranty

Re: Replacing those 8D batteries?

Reply #1 – November 06, 2023, 02:03:45 am

How much?

Re: Replacing those 8D batteries?

Reply #2 – November 06, 2023, 06:11:35 am

Re: Replacing those 8D batteries?

Reply #3 – November 06, 2023, 07:28:35 am

12V 460Ah LiFePO4 Battery | Group 8D Size, IP67, Heated, Bluetooth & Victron...

Re: Replacing those 8D batteries?

Reply #4 – November 06, 2023, 10:27:32 am

When Battle Born cornered the lithium market 5 years ago you would only get 200 amps for the price of this battery.

Re: Replacing those 8D batteries?

Reply #5 – November 06, 2023, 10:31:14 am

Interesting battery. At $2k, it's about the same cost as the 3 Lifeline AGM 8D's I have in my coach, and at 83% DOD, provides the same capacity as those 3 AGM's at 50% DOD. May be a good way for someone to switch from AGM to LiFePO4 without costing a bunch more money, other than the necessary charging equipment.

Re: Replacing those 8D batteries?

Reply #6 – November 06, 2023, 11:10:58 am

I read the other day on my wife's facebook (I don't have facebook) a guy with a 2020 IH45 changed out to 6 Timeusb LiFePO4 200Ah batteries and did nothing else. Some of the comments were questioning if he changed settings on his inverter/chargers and he came back saying he had not. Some said that with the setting that was for his lifelines would only charge his batteries up to 80-90%

Re: Replacing those 8D batteries?

Reply #7 – November 06, 2023, 11:24:38 am

Quote from: WS6_Keith – November 06, 2023, 10:31:14 am

Interesting battery.

Agree. For those of us with older coaches where the coach and start batteries are mounted on "open air" racks underneath the coach belly, I think the self-contained heater is a very nice feature.

The cost of LiFePO4 batteries is really coming down. This battery at (460Ah x 12 = 5520Wh) 5.5kWh capacity is roughly half the size of the 10kWh Enphase batteries in our home PV system. The Enphase battery cost $10K two years ago - now I see it on sale for under $5K with free shipping. Good Times!

Re: Replacing those 8D batteries?

Reply #8 – November 06, 2023, 11:59:41 am

The prices are really coming down. However I don't think is an easy as just switching batteries, if you want to get the maximum performance out of your expensive new lithium batteries. Especially in older coaches with old inverter chargers. As I have also read one needs to isolate/ control the alternator, with a B2B charger or disconnect the alternator from the house bank.

Re: Replacing those 8D batteries?

Reply #9 – November 06, 2023, 01:15:39 pm

That's not bad really.. The X2 8D 220AH batteries are $800 each so the price for 440AH vs 460AH is right there... We put 3 of the X2s in for a total of 660AH (and 450lbs) and it costs $2400 or you could put in two of the 460AH Lithium for basically $4000 and get 920AH (and 195lbs) with 11 yr warranty v.s. 4 yr warranty...

Getting better all the time :-). When I replace mine it will be with 3 or 4 Lithium batteries!!

Re: Replacing those 8D batteries?

Reply #10 – March 18, 2024, 03:59:24 pm

Has anyone installed these 460Ah Epoch batteries yet? Wondering if they are compatible with a Xantrex Pro-Sine 2.5/12.

Or if they require the Victron. No luck with chatting or email communication yet with Epoch.

Re: Replacing those 8D batteries?

Reply #11 – March 19, 2024, 05:00:23 pm

I guy on irv2 has installed 2 of the 460. He is having problem where only 1 will discharge and it could be either after full charging. Before he Paralleled both batteries he made sure that they were both 100% before he started.

Re: Replacing those 8D batteries?

Reply #12 – March 20, 2024, 04:20:58 pm

Quote from: turbojack – March 19, 2024, 05:00:23 pm

I guy on irv2 has installed 2 of the 460. He is having problem where only 1 will discharge and it could be either after full charging. Before he Paralleled both batteries he made sure that they were both 100% before he started.

Thanks. Epoch did respond:

"They are compatible with Xantrex inverter/chargers but do not have direct communication capabilities as they do with the Victron. Still, they work just the same and fully compatible just as any other LiFePO4 battery would be."

With a 10% off coupon two were $4044, including tax and shipping, for a total of 920 Ah. Even though one battery would probably be fine, especially when comparing the usable Amp Hours, I decided to go with two for redundancy, in case one fails.

I've had my three 255Ah Lifelines since I purchased the coach in 2012, so got a good run out of them. The last couple of trips they were showing signs of age, and with the price of lithium finally going down to comparable with AGM, it was time to make the switch.

Now just figuring out what other new components may be needed. It sounds like the Xantrex should be fine. Checking on the Tri-Metric now. Not sure if that is compatible, or if I should just go with a Victron Smart Shunt to be able to see the battery data on the phone.

I see some are having issues with error codes with these new Epoch 460Ah batteries. From what I can gather, setting the charge rate to 13.8 volts or less, for the first few charges, is helping. But not sure about the issue above with only one battery discharging.

Re: Replacing those 8D batteries?

Reply #13 – March 20, 2024, 05:20:19 pm

Quote from: tothetrail – March 20, 2024, 04:20:58 pm

From what I can gather, setting the charge rate to 13.8 volts or less, for the first few charges, is helping. But not sure about the issue above with only one battery discharging.

He was told to drop charge rate to 13.8v and that was going to keep both batteries awake. Said he would get back after testing to see if that works.

Re: Replacing those 8D batteries?

Reply #14 – March 20, 2024, 05:41:13 pm

Quote from: tothetrail – March 18, 2024, 03:59:24 pm

if they are compatible with a Xantrex Pro-Sine 2.5/12.

Epoch did respond:

"They are compatible with Xantrex inverter/chargers but do not have direct communication capabilities as they do with the Victron. Still, they work just the same and fully compatible just as any other LiFePO4 battery would be."

Is that ProSine the OEM one from 2003 and if so was Epoch aware of that? The general comment of "compatible with Xantrex" may not apply to an inverter from that era.

Re: Replacing those 8D batteries?

Reply #15 – March 21, 2024, 06:22:55 am

We have these batteries in our current coach and were in our last coach. 4 batteries in parallel. 1600 AH. You can use boost prior to starting the coach to plus up the chasis battery but is not recommended for actual starting.
12V 400Ah 250A Discharge / 250A Charge BMS w/ Low Temp Charge Cut-off LFP... They also make a higher capacity battery and has a 12 year warranty.
They have been sucessfully charged with Xantrex 3012, ProSine 2500 and Victron Multiplus 2 2x120. When using the ProSine the batteries will float at 13.87v and the Victron will float at 13.68v. The battery BMS is the final controlling factor. If the BMS is any good it will not allow the battery to be overcharged. If you use the ProSine at the AGM setting you should be fine. We did this for 6 months on our new coach and only switched to the Victron because we got it almost free.

Re: Replacing those 8D batteries?

Reply #16 – March 22, 2024, 04:01:35 pm

I put two Life Blue 300 AH batteries in my coach and have been very happy.

Re: Replacing those 8D batteries?

Reply #17 – March 22, 2024, 06:56:16 pm

Quote from: DaBus – March 21, 2024, 06:22:55 am

We have these batteries in our current coach and were in our last coach. 4 batteries in parallel. 1600 AH. You can use boost prior to starting the coach to plus up the chasis battery but is not recommended for actual starting.
12V 400Ah 250A Discharge / 250A Charge BMS w/ Low Temp Charge Cut-off LFP... They also make a higher capacity battery and has a 12 year warranty.
They have been sucessfully charged with Xantrex 3012, ProSine 2500 and Victron Multiplus 2 2x120. When using the ProSine the batteries will float at 13.87v and the Victron will float at 13.68v. The battery BMS is the final controlling factor. If the BMS is any good it will not allow the battery to be overcharged. If you use the ProSine at the AGM setting you should be fine. We did this for 6 months on our new coach and only switched to the Victron because we got it almost free.

Are you planing to use your alternator to charge your batteries while driving?
I use a Victron DC - DC charger to charge my batteries to protect my alternator while driving.

Re: Replacing those 8D batteries?

Reply #18 – June 03, 2024, 03:09:35 pm

Quote from: Michelle – March 20, 2024, 05:41:13 pm

Is that ProSine the OEM one from 2003 and if so was Epoch aware of that? The general comment of "compatible with Xantrex" may not apply to an inverter from that era.

So the Xantrex worked.

But decided to replace it with the Victron MultiPlus II. The Victron has way more features, is way more efficient, and is charging the batteries way faster. Also figured it would be nice to replace the solar chargers with Victron. So went all-in with the Lynx Distributors, Victron Smart Shunt, the new Victron 50 Amp battery to battery charger to protect the alternator, and the Cerbo GX and touchscreen to monitor everything. It's really nice to have access to the VRM to monitor the system remotely, as long as the motorhome has internet connectivity. And the AM Solar techs were so great, easily able to view the system form their end to diagnose any issues. It really pays to purchase the components from AM Solar, given they provide full support, even when installed yourself. They were very impressed with the Foretravel wiring schematics, saying they wished other manufacturers provided the same.

The only bummer with the Victron Multiplus II is that it cannot be plugged into a GFCI outlet. I understand that in Europe their GFCI outlets are rated to 10-30 mA, whereas the standard in the US is 4-6 mA. So since this inverter charger is made for the European market, they use the higher amp rating, so out GFCI outlets will trip and it no longer has power. Their solution is to just plug it into a non-GFI, which is pretty hard to do since outdoor and garage outlets are usually on a GFCI circuit, so it's not easy to find an outlet. You can string it into the house, but that's just not very practical.

The workaround is, as long as you have the 120 v breakers off in the coach, you can be plugged in to the GFCI.

But other than that, this system is awesome. Ordered two more of the Epoch 460's with the hold-down brackets, and this time around they were only $3634 total, including tax and shipping. They will fit perfectly in the battery cabinet, just need to modify the tray. This will allow the AC to run on battery power overnight and not have to worry about increased power draw after replacing the absorption fridge with a dual compressor DC fridge.

Re: Replacing those 8D batteries?

Reply #19 – June 03, 2024, 10:09:38 pm

I would highly recommend that anyone who installs a li-ion battery bank to change their battery cables to UL 1427 marine cabling. It has pvc not rubber for its external covering. Rubber supports flames. Dangerous vapors, cyanide? Drips off. PVC does not. Forms an ash coating on the burned cable. Does not drip off. A shorted li-ion battery bank can produce flames. An inadvertent battery cabling rub through or a crash resulting in a short could be a serious thing. Foretravel used on most of our coaches welding cable. Rubber covered. Not as much of a problem with non li-ion batteries.

Li-ion battery cells themselves were/are normally UL approved. The cases were not to my knowledge when last I checked.

Not much money to get a set of marine cables made up.

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