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Topic: Manually put air into system (Read 518 times) previous topic - next topic

Manually put air into system

Hello,

I am having trouble with my coach starting. I believe my starter is bad, but since i cannot start the coach i cannot run the compressor to fill the bags and then get underneath to replace the starter. I am aware of the steel tubing recommended to put in place when working underneath, and i have them. but the coach is low at the moment and cannot be started. Is there a way to manually put air into the system to inflate the bags? and to what psi? i suppose if i get 130psi into the system like the onboard compressor does i can then use the leveling system for the coach to get the steel tubing in for safety.

any help will be great. 1996 U320.

thank you

Re: Manually put air into system

Reply #1 –
You should have a female air chuck in the propane tank area and you could make a male to male
adapter to put air in there. Be aware the air won't be dry. I put a male  fitting in before the air drier
in my coach with a shut off valve that I use a lot.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: Manually put air into system

Reply #2 –
Assume you have a M11 engine,are you sure the starter is accessible from the bottom,on the 8.3 it is on top,and can you air up the coach using the aux air compresser.
96 U270 BUILD 4810
85 380SL
Drummonds TN.

Re: Manually put air into system

Reply #3 –
John, yes, i have an M11. the starter is definitely on the bottom. maybe this is me being not entirely aware of everything on my coach, but i was under the assumption the engine needed to be running to use the air compressor. are you suggesting there is a secondary one that i can run without running the engine?

Oldguy, yes i have that air fitting in the propane bay. it has an air hose i use to air the tires and whatever else is needed. i guess i didnt think about putting air into that fitting. i suppose for my situation this would work. understood the air will not be dry, but if i need to do it i need to do it. will any moisture work its way out of the system over time?

Re: Manually put air into system

Reply #4 –
You should have an electric air comp that comes on when you set the HWH panel to level during the night,try to use it to raise the coach and put your blocks in.
96 U270 BUILD 4810
85 380SL
Drummonds TN.

Re: Manually put air into system

Reply #5 –
Just drain the tanks. Years ago there was no air driers and the tanks need to be drained and the
best was to it every day.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: Manually put air into system

Reply #6 –
John,

The leveling system does work if i set it to auto-level, yes. but i assumed this just worked off the air in the system and once it was drained down (slowly over time) that i needed to restart and run the motor to build back air pressure. i never see the air pressure build while the coach is sitting. only see it slowly go down over weeks. is there somewhere i need to turn this electric pump on? or maybe i dont have one...

Re: Manually put air into system

Reply #7 –
With SO many things that can keep the starter from cranking engine, why are you sure your starter is the only problem.

Re: Manually put air into system

Reply #8 –
Well, the coach has labored to start for a while. Often times i need to crank it a few times before it starts. the batteries are new. only a few months old. i have disconnected them all and cleaned the terminals and cables, and metered each battery independently to 12.64V. they each measured the same. a few days ago the coach did nothing when trying to start. i went underneath the best i could and lightly tapped around on the starter with a hammer. then when i turned the key it cranked really fast and i let off the key because that was unusual. during this point the "stop engine" light came on. I have had no more signs of life from the starter since then. i tried after this to bypass the starter solenoid by jumping the large cable terminal to the trigger wire. this sparked, as expected, then there was a loud metal bang. the starter did not try to crank the engine at this point. i tried this again and nothing happened. not even a spark. no life from the starter since then.

i know there could be many culprits here. if you are willing to make a list of what i could/should check i would be grateful. i am alone with this, so i have no one to help me take readings or be an extra set of eyes or hands.

i know this has diverted from the topic title. but you asked so i figured i would explain. i may make a new post for this...

thank you for the help.

Re: Manually put air into system

Reply #9 –
Your diagnostics exceeded what many would do. Jumping the solenoid that puts voltage to the starter solenoid is the test that points to the starter itself, if cables and battery are okay. Good luck airing up the air bags and starter replacement. Some have felt that turning in an OEM starter for core charge could be delayed because sometimes a 'newly' rebuilt starter could have future problems because sometimes only minor parts were replaced in a worn starter. Also may be worth taking starter to an old fashioned alternator/starter rebuilder because OEM could be higher quality than a 'factory' rebuilt import starter.

Re: Manually put air into system

Reply #10 –
So I think you may need to take a step back and sort out what your problem is before you take on everything else.
Coach wont start trouble shooting (Battery)
Once you have verified batteries and cables condition you should be able to TS the the starter. I installed a compressed air fitting on the outlet line of the engine air compressor the day I bought the coach while changing the dryer out.
ISM starter

Re: Manually put air into system

Reply #11 –
Just a thought, can you put a socket on the crankshaft bolt and see if the engine turns freely? The loud bang you heard has me curious.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Manually put air into system

Reply #12 –
craneman, yes i can turn the motor with a socket and breaker bar.

dsd, thank you. i will go through that. unfortunately, i need to leave for a week and wont be able to get to real troubleshooting until next weekend. wanted to start the feelers for how i should handle this.

any other input is greatly appreciated.

Re: Manually put air into system

Reply #13 –
Lets step back and talk about raising the coach. You should be able to use the HWH pad to raise the coach without the engine running. I have done this many times although it is slow it will work and you will see that the front lifts first then the back will catch up. Once up then block the frame as normal. If you have outside air then sure you can use it to air up the whole coach air systems. To pull that starter off that M-11 you will need the coach up off the ground.

Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Manually put air into system

Reply #14 –
Quote from: mm1313 –
i tried after this to bypass the starter solenoid by jumping the large cable terminal to the trigger wire. this sparked, as expected, then there was a loud metal bang. the starter did not try to crank the engine at this point. i tried this again and nothing happened. not even a spark. no life from the starter since then.

i know there could be many culprits here. if you are willing to make a list of what i could/should check i would be grateful.
The post linked below contains a list of components that must function properly in order for the engine to crank (turn over).  I made up this list based on my experience with the C8.3L (mechanical) Cummins, but it should be pretty close for the big Cummins in your coach.

Starting trouble. Solenoid? Isolator? Something else?  (Reply #16)

1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Manually put air into system

Reply #15 –
There should be a solenoid, looks just like the boost solenoid. that energizes the starter solenoid.
Jump power to it. That's the first thing I do if the engine won't turn over.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: Manually put air into system

Reply #16 –
I have a test light with 10 ft leads.  You can connect to the starter and watch for the light to verify power . 
 It sounds as tho your starter is weak or shot. 
I have also used my phone to watch the brake bellows move , etc.

Re: Manually put air into system

Reply #17 –
Hook up an external compressor to that line by the propane tank. You only need 100 psi ish. So don't worry  if it doesn't get to 130. Turn the key on and hold the raise button for a few seconds on the hwh pad. This will put the system into high mode. It will air up and lift the coach. Then you can put your blocks in and you are good to go.  Your aux compressor maybe be small and take a very long time to lift. But it could be an option too.
1991 U300 Side Aisle 6V92 Silver #3897
2004 U320 40' #6246
 

Re: Manually put air into system

Reply #18 –
All, I think i tracked the problem to aux starter solenoid and/or one of the circuit breaker fuses on the isolator panel. I moved this to an old thread since it seemed more relevant, and that is where i found the checklist from Chuck and Jeannie that helped me. Thanks to everyone who had something to say. Tomorrow I will try starting again and cross my fingers this was the issue. If anyone wants to comment on that revival of the old post I had some questions there.

thanks