Skip to main content
Topic: King Throttle Emergency Options (Read 1062 times) previous topic - next topic

King Throttle Emergency Options

My symptom of a failing King Throttle was a loss of power after driving for several hours, usually while climbing with cruise control engaged and manually adding throttle with the foot pedal. The coach would slowly lose power and I would have to pull over, let it idle for a couple minutes and then it would operate normally for days. My first response was to change both fuel filters. This would happen every now and then, but this year it became more frequent, again I changed fuel filters. After an uneventful trip to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan this September and October, it started acting up again. On a trip from Carlsbad NM to Albuquerque I started having trouble a few miles from Cline's Corner when I lost all throttle response and then did not recover after idling or turning the engine on and off following a cool down period. After idling about a half mile on the shoulder, limped into Cline's Corner and parked overnight in the truck parking area. Definitely not fuel filters.

The generally accepted emergency throttle is a rope or cable from the engine throttle, up and over the engine box and connected to a floor mounted hand throttle operated with the right hand while driving one handed. I had seen first hand a hand throttle and a photo of another, both attached to brackets screwed into the floor. I was prepared to make one, but also read on the forum someone  was going to put a C Clamp on the accelerator pedal, and operate the rope from there.

I attached a 4 inch C clamp to the top of the accelerator pedal and then made a bowline hitch loop at the end of the ¼" nylon rope and ran the loop over the adjusting lever bar of the C Clamp and then threaded the rope through the loop to create a secure connection to the clamp. This rope was run to the foot of the bed and attached to a carabiner.  I made the same bowline loop and threaded the rope around the throttle lever at the engine. I had already made a hole for some heavy wiring at the firewall to install a start battery maintainer in the passenger footwell electrical space. I then took the switch faceplate off the hot water heater switch and ran the rope through a gap on the outside of the electrical box to the rope from the driver accelerator pedal. This meant I had more or less a straight pull from the engine throttle to the front accelerator pedal and did not need to go up and over the bed platform. After a couple of adjustments on the rope length the driver accelerator pedal operated fully from idle to full throttle.

There are four advantages to the C Clamp solution. First, unless you are a helicopter pilot, you will find it more natural to throttle the coach with your foot and drive with two hands on the wheel. Second, you don't have to screw a hand throttle bracket into the floor. Third, your King Control still receives a throttle position signal from your driver's accelerator pedal and IF your King Control transmission position sensor still works, the transmission shifts normally! Otherwise, it will only shift at max pressure or near redline. Fourth, your cruise control may STILL work! Mine did, but then didn't.

Once at Albuquerque I started working through the King Control trouble shooting procedure. I dismounted my accelerator pedal to get access to the Accelerator Position Sensor connections and verified the resistance from idle to full throttle per specs. All good. Took the cover plate off the King Control and it appeared to work just fine. Sent photos of my unit to Brent in Washington and he noticed the burnt connectors at the motherboard. I attempted to remove them and clean them. BAD IDEA. The connector was so brittle it was disintegrating. Retested the throttle and went for a drive. No throttle, so hooked up my rope. Test drive, no transmission TPS and no cruise. Took a chance and pushed on the bad connector and went for a test drive. TPS worked but no cruise. At this point I replaced rope with cable, ran the cable through ¼" PEX at foot of bed to avoid chafing of wires and then continued on to Oklahoma, Texas and then back to New Mexico and home base where I removed the King Control and sent it off to Brent at Advanced Diagnostic Consulting. Still waiting on a refurbished King Control.

In conclusion, don't be lazy and optimistic like me and think the King Control will live forever. Put together an emergency kit and test it. Everyone I talked with experienced an intermittent failure before complete loss of throttle. If you go with an air throttle, you will have to install a stand alone Allison TPS, but you might get away with still using the King Control as cruise. I know two forum members who have a functioning King Control cruise, but no throttle via foot pedal.

The two throttle return springs on the C8.3 are strong. I had to stop every hour or so to stretch my leg without the cruise control. Was it wise to keep driving with my Okie engineered throttle? My great uncle, a dairy farmer, would have said, "Why not?" My great nephew in law, a trained heavy equipment mechanic and ex-Marine, shook his head and said behind my back, "That's crazy."

Photos show cable set up with quick connect at bed and throttle. Easily disconnected to prevent tripping hazard while parked.
1998 36 foot U270 Build No. 5328 WTFE, 900 watts solar, Victron controller, B2B, bat monitor, 600 AMPH lithium with 2018 Chevy Colorado toad, SKP #110239, Motorcade #17781, 2021 Escape 17B for when Coach is broken down and campsites are too small, retired and full-timer since Dec. 2020. Part of RV family since 1963.

Re: King Throttle Emergency Options

Reply #1
Necessity is a mother.  Points for perseverance.  The vinyl coated wire (clothes line wire?) sounds lots better than rope in this application - less friction and zero stretch.  Hopefully your rebuilt King control will put you back to normal operation.

I personally would not drive our coach without cruise control, except in emergency situation.  Too much work...  When our Bendix cruise control finally dies, the coach will pass to another owner.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: King Throttle Emergency Options

Reply #2
Well done sir, my throttle cable is starting to become weak as well and some of the wire strands have separated so I know  I must initiate a replacement/repair soon. I carry a spool of 1/16" aircraft cable which I think would work should I get in this position. Thanks for a great write up with pics.
Michael & Roxene, Aussie the wonder dog & his daughter Luna the lunatic.
1993 Grand Villa Unihome 280 build #4203
36' 8.3 Cummins 300 hp- 2001 Chevrolet Tracker toad

Re: King Throttle Emergency Options

Reply #3
King Control overheated / burnt / discolored main circuit board has been one of the regular signs of well used King Control.  Most probably have the discolored connections.  Wonder what circuit it manages and why too many amps are flowing there.

Re: King Throttle Emergency Options

Reply #4
...my throttle cable is starting to become weak as well and some of the wire strands have separated so I know I must initiate a replacement/repair soon.
Michael,

Since you have a '93 model, I assume you have the Bendix cruise control, rather than the King system.  If you address the "weak throttle cable" problem before it deteriorates too far, you may be able to save it.  I tackled this project 9 years ago when I noticed the outer covering on my cable was falling apart.  I caught it in time to restore it with a little Aggie engineering, and it is still working just fine today.  See the links below for more info:

Williams Controls WM453109 Air Throttle Valve  (Reply #21)

air throttle problem

Part Number Collection  (Reply #127)
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: King Throttle Emergency Options

Reply #5
What year did they do away with the King control?
96 U270 BUILD 4810
85 380SL
Drummonds TN.

Re: King Throttle Emergency Options

Reply #6
Around 98, the Cummins 8.3 ISC engine had throttle control incorporated into the engine.
1999 U270 36, no slide

Re: King Throttle Emergency Options

Reply #7
I think 98 is correct, as my 99 does not have.
Keith and Dawn Hudson #18766
Current- 1999 U295 DFGE 40ft. - Build #5405
Coach Name: 4BUS4US
Previous- 2008 Nimbus CE338: 40th Anniversary Edition- Build #6486. 
Toad: 2021 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk

 "I know something about a lot of things..a lot about something's..and everything about nothing "

Re: King Throttle Emergency Options

Reply #8
It's a pick your poison.

1998 Newer: ISC engine gives electronic control and engine monitoring, with the problematic CAPS pump. Seems the solution until proven otherwise, add a FASS style pump to maintain fuel pressure to the CAPS pump.

1997-1995ish?: Bulletproof P-pump mechanical 8.3L with problematic King Controls. Seems we have Advanced Diagnostic Consulting fixing these in Washington if they go bad.

1994 older: Bendix cruise control

John Hobbs
1995 U300 SE
M11 / Retarder
Private toilet
1 of 1
Wichita, Ks

Re: King Throttle Emergency Options

Reply #9
As I remember:

Popular Cummins mechanical C8.3 engines were used in Foretravels, Monaco, etc coaches with mechanical/pneumantic throttle controls.

Lael King (kingconnect.com) invented/created an electronic Cruise Control add-on box to the mechanical throttles.

King later proposed what some call Fly-by-Wire throttle to completely replace the mechanical throttle which is known as the King Control.  This was an expansion of his Cruise Control, integrating throttle pull motor with instant release clutch and electronic Allison Throttle Position Sensor, all controlled with a circuit board enclosed in a water-resistant metal box.

The number of years that Foretravel, Monaco, etc used King's electronic throttle box was limited, and was not needed with Cummins ISC engines that started to show up in 1998. 

When RV manufacturers no longer needed King Control, Lael lost this market, but there still was a large demand for maintenance to keep thousands of coaches running.

Steve Boller who worked for Lael at King Control decided to leave King Control, create King Cruise Control, and for many years he had a good very well-run repair business.  Steve also had a strong business adding Cruise Control to trucks.

Steve later found it was hard/expensive to get boards and other parts made, possibly ready to move on with his life, and maybe figured there was no profit in selling the business, so he sold off parts and closed the door, leaving all to fend for themselves.

Re: King Throttle Emergency Options

Reply #10
I read where the brake lights can affect the King Control if they are not working.  I have a 97 FT U295 - 2 normal brake lights on each corner with a "middle" brake light.  The middle brake light has 2 bulbs.  "One" of the bulbs in the middle brake light is not working - would that "one" bulb affect the operation of the King Control module?

Re: King Throttle Emergency Options

Reply #11
King throttle control will limit throttle if it does not see a brake light ground through a brake light bulb. This circuit is designed to turn off cruise and throttle when it sees a brake light turn on. The check for ground is a test to be sure the brake light system is working okay. Even a burnt-out bulb will cause a King failure because the bulb's hot wire cannot 'see' the bulb's ground due to broken bulb filament. It seems that changing brake bulbs to LED still work okay with King. But who knows how the single King brake light test wire on your wonderful 30 yr old coach is connected. If it now only tests the middle brake light lamp and that lamp is separate from the other 2 rear brake lights, you could have found the problem. If the left and right rear brake lights are also used as turn signal lights, only the center is a dedicated brake light. What is wrong with center and why not fix it?

With a modification you could fool King by locating the brake light hot wire and connecting to any bulb that lights with brake application. Some have added a front of bed brake light to know from driver's position that brake lights have turned on, sometimes aiding awareness of brake light operation with Allison retarder. How is your King Control acting up?

Re: King Throttle Emergency Options

Reply #12
I'm in Nacogdoches, TX.  Was told there was a problem with TPS - throwing a TPS code.  Diesel shop testing TPS under gas pedal and tested okay.  Said there is another one on the King Throttle box that seems to be bad and trying to find part.  I had heard about the King Throttle box not in business anymore so I did some research and ran across the brake light situation.  I'm going to discuss this with diesel shop first thing in morning.  Had some work done at another excellent place who was supposed to replace brake light bulb, and I'm not sure they got around to replacing it, so that could be my problem - I only hope and pray it is.  Thanks for the quick reply. 

Re: King Throttle Emergency Options

Reply #13
As to how it's acting up - bought unit in Sept 2024 - drove a week ago from Indiana to Texas.  Unit ran great except occasional hard shifts. But what I noticed most was on cruise control, on even a small incline, unit would downshift and "service" light would light up on the shift panel.  It would occasionally do it when I was operating the foot pedal, but more prevalent using cruise control. 

Re: King Throttle Emergency Options

Reply #14
Too bad, if this is all because YOU did not open center brake lamp housing and replace a burnt-out bulb. Think you will find the accelerator pedal does not talk to Allison, and is not a Throttle Position Sensor, TPS. The electronics of that pedal are only wired to King Control box in engine corner. As King motor pulls in throttle cable on side of injector pump, it communicates with Allison transmission via voltage change on TPS wire to tranny. This circuit is not fixable or replaceable, and is integrated into the King circuit board, which sometimes has an overheated/burnt visible solder connection. Guess that a new (expensive) Allison TPS could be custom-installed that is moved by King throttle pull-cable, but have not heard of anyone doing this mod that would no-longer use King box for Allison TPS information. One of the many wire-plug connections coming out of the King box is the TPS feed. Another is the brake light voltage sensor. King has a helpful wiring/diagnostic/trouble-shooting diagram that you may have. King throttle box is the weak link of some of these Cummins C8.3 engines, without any good permanent fixes other than replacing the coach's throttle controls. Recent Forum discussions have offered temporary solutions if you are handy. Unfortunately, no repair shop will be able to fix the King box. Being in Nacogdoches, you may want to pick the brain of MOT or other recommended experienced tech's. King Throttle Control is also the Cruise Control. You may find that not using Cruise Control and driving only with foot throttle may lengthen the life of the King box and not cause as many hard shifts. Others have done the same. Sometimes Cruise control does not keep on the set MPH and with all the throttle changes imposed by Cruise, the King can get stressed. With Forum research, you may want to find a permanent solution for this fine coach, as a problematic King may likely fail without any throttle control. Most have created a manual way to drive coach without King, some using King for TPS. Do not get towed because of a King failure as manual temp fixes are well documented on this Forum. You do not want to be surprised or stressed over this known issue. Good luck, let us know what you find. . .

Re: King Throttle Emergency Options

Reply #15
A year ago I asked both service presenters from MOT and FOT if they were working on the throttle issue for our C8.3 at the 2023 Motorcade GranVention. They both looked away from me and said, "No." They were not interested in even talking about it. I don't expect a solution will be forthcoming from them. I'm still waiting on my King Control repair. I'm at seven weeks and counting. Brent at Advanced Diagnostics Consulting has invested both time and money in developing a repair process. It may be a couple more months before he sources the parts needed for a complete rebuild. You might try running your transmission in eco mode. That helped for a while in my situation . 

Update: Got email this morning (1/28). Rebuilt King Control did not pass bench testing. He won't ship until satisfied it's good to go.
1998 36 foot U270 Build No. 5328 WTFE, 900 watts solar, Victron controller, B2B, bat monitor, 600 AMPH lithium with 2018 Chevy Colorado toad, SKP #110239, Motorcade #17781, 2021 Escape 17B for when Coach is broken down and campsites are too small, retired and full-timer since Dec. 2020. Part of RV family since 1963.

Re: King Throttle Emergency Options

Reply #16
Does anyone have a link for the wiring/diagnostic/trouble-shooting diagram for the King Control on a 97 C8.3?

 

Re: King Throttle Emergency Options

Reply #17
Check out this post:
KC throttle control
1998 36 foot U270 Build No. 5328 WTFE, 900 watts solar, Victron controller, B2B, bat monitor, 600 AMPH lithium with 2018 Chevy Colorado toad, SKP #110239, Motorcade #17781, 2021 Escape 17B for when Coach is broken down and campsites are too small, retired and full-timer since Dec. 2020. Part of RV family since 1963.