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Topic: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa  (Read 744 times) previous topic - next topic

Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa

Hya all, would anyone know if it's possible to remove the bottom section of the radiator on my 1990 villa, it appears I have a very slight leak, the radiator verticle fins that the water travels through seem OK, if i wipe the channel at the bottom and watch, I can see the very smallest bit of water looks like it's coming upward maybe from the gasket, 'I know the power steering fluid runs through this bottom section, must be an internal pipe and the water around it cools it down, i dont really want to take the radiator out because that looks like a right akward job, but if i can remove the bottom section clean and fit a new gasket then that might be alot easier, has anyone ever done this job please, and also any information would be appreciated on where I can buy a complete set of radiator gaskets as shown in diagram thanks kev
1990 foretravel grandvilla, Oshkosh chassis
8.2ltr Detroit turbo

Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa

Reply #1 –
Don't think any power steering fluid runs in that radiator according to the diagram,I would try some stop leak for now and in
the near future as rusty as that thing looks just bite the bullet and remove it have have it repaired at a good shop.
96 U270 BUILD 4810
85 380SL
Drummonds TN.

Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa

Reply #2 –
Quote from: John44 –
Don't think any power steering fluid runs in that radiator according to the diagram,I would try some stop leak for now and in
the near future as rusty as that thing looks just bite the bullet and remove it have have it repaired at a good shop.
Are you sure about my power steering, when I removed my power steering pipes ages ago, the inlet pipe from the power steering reservoir connected to this bottom bit, and the out also connected to bottom of radiator,  if you look  at diagram I just sent you, you will see 1 connection which is the bottom water hose and 2 others, which are where my hydraulic connections go to, now surely if that's the case then there must be an internal pipe that runs through that bottom section of radiator to these 2 connections, i understand it as the water in this bottom section surrounds an internal hydraulic pipe running through it to cool the power steering fluid down, it's the only explanation I can think of because when I had the fluid pipes off, only fluid came out of it, maybe works similar to a heat exchanger, although there is nothing on the diagram showing a pipe inside or maybe a small cylinder to house the fluid, i cant think of any other explanation as to why 2 fluid pipes would be set in this bottom section,, thanks for your input anyway, perhaps later in the day somebody may have had this section apart in the past, it's still a bit early yet, it's 11.35hrs in UK, i think your 6hrs behind us so most of the members I think will still be in bed, all the best kev
1990 foretravel grandvilla, Oshkosh chassis
8.2ltr Detroit turbo

Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa

Reply #3 –
Quote from: kevo0000 –
...I know the power steering fluid runs through this bottom section, must be an internal pipe and the water around it cools it down...

...any information would be appreciated on where I can buy a complete set of radiator gaskets as shown in diagram...
Kev,

I don't doubt your ability to trace the route of some hydraulic hoses, so I would assume you are correct about having a power steering fluid cooler in the bottom of your radiator.  It is much more common, at least on the later Foretravel coaches, to find a transmission fluid cooler in the bottom of radiators.  These coolers, regardless of application, can be a source of trouble when they (eventually) start to leak.  The fluid in the cooler mixes with the coolant in the radiator, leading to expensive repair jobs.

As to a source for radiator gaskets, I doubt the radiator in your coach is a standard size model, for which new gasket sets will be readily available.  If you decide to disassemble the radiator, I'm afraid you may have to resort to having gaskets custom cut from bulk gasket material, or using some kind of gasket-in-a-tube.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa

Reply #4 –
I am very familiar with that level of rust and corrosion not only on the radiator assembly but surrounding steel work. You will have your hands full.  Some of those bolts will need to be cut or torched to get them out. That radiator owes no one anything. it is done. You will likely find that the reason the gasket is failing is that the flanges are corroded inside also. While I really hate the idea maybe some heavy stop-leak treatment can buy you some time.
Dennis Haynes
Bohemia NY
2008 Nimbus 342 SE Carlyle
Build #6475
Motorcade #19148

Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Dennis H –
I am very familiar with that level of rust and corrosion not only on the radiator assembly but surrounding steel work. You will have your hands full.  Some of those bolts will need to be cut or torched to get them out. That radiator owes no one anything. it is done. You will likely find that the reason the gasket is failing is that the flanges are corroded inside also. While I really hate the idea maybe some heavy stop-leak treatment can buy you some time.
Yeah thanks for input, I know your right absolutely, it's one of those jobs that youl do everything and anything to avoid taking the radiator out, it seems to be quite a big job, that leak has been there for probably the last 4 or 5 years maybe longer, it just hasn't got any worse, and as long as I keep checking the water regular never a problem until one day maybe, what I am thinking of doing is draining the coolant so I can get the lot nice and dry all along the bottom of that radiator, you can buy this resin mix in tube that is 50/50, and pour it in that channel, plus I would also put a leak stopper in the coolant system aswell, it may prolong the agony for another couple of years, just out of curiosity how mutch would a new radiator cost me that's if there still available, it's quite heavy and bulky so the shipping would be a hell of a lot aswell, there may be some places that sell good used rads if new turns out to be too expensive, i had to do that when I replaced my 8.2ltr, I bought and had that shipped from a company called aldermans in the USA, excellant company was well pleased with the engine I bought, come to think of it I wish now when I had the engine out I serviced the radiator at the same time, just didn't enter my head, anyway thanks for any help, mutch appreciated
1990 foretravel grandvilla, Oshkosh chassis
8.2ltr Detroit turbo

Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa

Reply #6 –
Radiator cores themselves are generic. You can find one that matches your dimensions and do the work yourself or have a truck repair facility locate and change out the core.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa

Reply #7 –
Quote from: craneman –
Radiator cores themselves are generic. You can find one that matches your dimensions and do the work yourself or have a truck repair facility locate and change out the core.
Yeah thanks, I've had a look at that radiator many times, and in my opinion, the only  way to remove the whole radiator would be to raise the rear of the vehicle and lower the radiator down, it's a heavy lump aswell, from what I've seen on a lot of newer models, the rear end comes apart and there is full access to radiator,, il figure it out somehow when I have to, but for now I'm gonna try the simple fix, I've done simple fixes on things before and they can turn out to be permanent but not always, it's a fifty fifty chance
1990 foretravel grandvilla, Oshkosh chassis
8.2ltr Detroit turbo

Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa

Reply #8 –
On our 84 Foretravel I was able to get it out the back. Just had to cut a piece of fiberglass that is above the bumper. It should come out the back. When I worked at Foretravel I had removed several out through the back. I don't know if the opening is wide enough on your coach, but might be.
previous 1984 35 ft ORED 250 HP 3208 Cat       
previous 1998 40 ft U295 CAI 325 hp Cummins
previous 2003 40 Ft u320 build #6140 450 Cummins M11.                                                         
1999 Mazda Miata
Ron, Nancy, Tipper the cat, Max The dog
1997 U 270 36 ft build number 5174 8.3 Cummins

Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa

Reply #9 –
Quote from: red tractor –
On our 84 Foretravel I was able to get it out the back. Just had to cut a piece of fiberglass that is above the bumper. It should come out the back. When I worked at Foretravel I had removed several out through the back. I don't know if the opening is wide enough on your coach, but might be.
Yeah I have thought about doing that myself, il have a look more into that one, but for now, il first try the simple fix, thanks kev
1990 foretravel grandvilla, Oshkosh chassis
8.2ltr Detroit turbo

Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa

Reply #10 –
At some point you need to consider the impact if this radiator suddenly has a massive failure. It happens. As for the cooling system, unlike adding oil, regularly having to add coolant is not good. Every time coolant is added so is some dissolved oxygen increasing corrosion of the metals inside the engine and other parts of the cooling system. If adding tap water, you are also adding deposits that somehow never leave with the leak, they just accumulate. Also, if coolant is leaking out during heating expansion, when it cools air can be sucked back in. On engine start up you want the cooling system to quickly pressurize to help maintain contact, (avoid localized boiling), at the cylinder walls to avoid cylinder cavitation erosion. The hardest part of this job is getting started. The next hardest part is going to be the finances. These are the challenges that come with older vehicles. My 04 Tropi-Cal needed the radiator replaced at around 50K miles. You are lucky if this is your first replacement. It will be much more enjoyable to drive it with one less time bomb taken care properly.
Dennis Haynes
Bohemia NY
2008 Nimbus 342 SE Carlyle
Build #6475
Motorcade #19148

Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Dennis H –
At some point you need to consider the impact if this radiator suddenly has a massive failure. It happens. As for the cooling system, unlike adding oil, regularly having to add coolant is not good. Every time coolant is added so is some dissolved oxygen increasing corrosion of the metals inside the engine and other parts of the cooling system. If adding tap water, you are also adding deposits that somehow never leave with the leak, they just accumulate. Also, if coolant is leaking out during heating expansion, when it cools air can be sucked back in. On engine start up you want the cooling system to quickly pressurize to help maintain contact, (avoid localized boiling), at the cylinder walls to avoid cylinder cavitation erosion. The hardest part of this job is getting started. The next hardest part is going to be the finances. These are the challenges that come with older vehicles. My 04 Tropi-Cal needed the radiator replaced at around 50K miles. You are lucky if this is your first replacement. It will be much more enjoyable to drive it with one less time bomb taken care properly.
Yeah good advise thanks,  mutch appreciated
1990 foretravel grandvilla, Oshkosh chassis
8.2ltr Detroit turbo

Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa

Reply #12 –
Quote from: kevo0000 –
Yeah I have thought about doing that myself, il have a look more into that one, but for now, il first try the simple fix, thanks kev
I have decided to remove the radiator
Quote from: red tractor –
On our 84 Foretravel I was able to get it out the back. Just had to cut a piece of fiberglass that is above the bumper. It should come out the back. When I worked at Foretravel I had removed several out through the back. I don't know if the opening is wide enough on your coach, but might be.
Just having a look this morning, about what you said about removing piece of fibre glass  I'm sure it will come out that way, I think if I remove the cooling fan first, that will also make the job easier, i definately have enough width for it to come out, from there, it needs to come out and be sorted properly, i have to except that, , I may be able to get mine pressure tested and repaired, won't know until it's off and all stripped down how bad it is, this radiator in particular, would it be quite easy to find one, and obviously all the new gaskets I would need. I'm all prepared for another delay now before I finally get it on the road, I was hoping to finish it by end of this month, but now looking alot further, probably sometime in the new year, and with winter approaching, I'm definately not a working outside in the cold person anymore,
1990 foretravel grandvilla, Oshkosh chassis
8.2ltr Detroit turbo

Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa

Reply #13 –
Quote from: kevo0000 –
I have decided to remove the radiator
Just having a look this morning, about what you said about removing piece of fibre glass  I'm sure it will come out that way, I think if I remove the cooling fan first, that will also make the job easier, i definately have enough width for it to come out, from there, it needs to come out and be sorted properly, i have to except that, , I may be able to get mine pressure tested and repaired, won't know until it's off and all stripped down how bad it is, this radiator in particular, would it be quite easy to find one, and obviously all the new gaskets I would need. I'm all prepared for another delay now before I finally get it on the road, I was hoping to finish it by end of this month, but now looking alot further, probably sometime in the new year, and with winter approaching, I'm definately not a working outside in the cold person anymore,
1990 foretravel grandvilla, Oshkosh chassis
8.2ltr Detroit turbo

Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa

Reply #14 –
I had my radiator replaced and it came out the back.  Here a post with a photo of the notch made in the fiberglass.  I have a 6V92 engine so this may not apply:
Rear Radiator Removal
John Fitzgerald
1991 U300 (SAI) Side Aisle Island Bed 40'
Detroit 6V92 with Allison Retarder
Meridian (Boise), Idaho

Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa

Reply #15 –
Only thing I can add is it is heavy. It 2 of us to lift it out. Removing the fan is almost a necessity.
previous 1984 35 ft ORED 250 HP 3208 Cat       
previous 1998 40 ft U295 CAI 325 hp Cummins
previous 2003 40 Ft u320 build #6140 450 Cummins M11.                                                         
1999 Mazda Miata
Ron, Nancy, Tipper the cat, Max The dog
1997 U 270 36 ft build number 5174 8.3 Cummins
 

Re: Radiator leak problem on my 1990 villa

Reply #16 –
Quote from: red tractor –
Only thing I can add is it is heavy. It 2 of us to lift it out. Removing the fan is almost a necessity.
Yes not looking forward to doing this job, but when there is a will there is a way,  thanks for all your advice, kev
1990 foretravel grandvilla, Oshkosh chassis
8.2ltr Detroit turbo