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Topic: Compare and contrast ... (Read 1453 times) previous topic - next topic

Compare and contrast ...

a Newmar King Aire and a Foretravel Realm Presidential.  Thank you, and I'll hang up and listen.

Re: Compare and contrast ...

Reply #1 –
If you hang up, how can you listen?
Richard & Betty Bark & Keiko our Golden Doodle
2003 U320T 3820 PBDS
Build # 6215
MC # 16926
2016 Chevrolet Colorado 4X4 diesel

Re: Compare and contrast ...

Reply #2 –
That's silly.  Just try to respond to my request if you're familiar with both.  Thanks.

Re: Compare and contrast ...

Reply #3 –
Somewhat on your question.

When I was looking at a new coach I was really looking at Entregra Cornerstone.  I had a friend that has a Cornerstone.
 When looking I really didn't see very many differences between the Cornerstone and Ih. After I bought the ih and then going in a Cornerstone we realized the differences.

Realm has a Spartan K4 chassis,  KA has a K3. No comparison in chassis to strength.

If I was to buy a new coach today it would be a Foretravel, but I might be biased since I am on 4th Foretravel now and live 180 miles from the factory.

I have talked to way more people than went from Newmar to Foretravel,  then the other way.
2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: Compare and contrast ...

Reply #4 –
I'll say that most of us on this list are biased. I fell into Foretravel trap also. As I became aware and knowledgeable of older Fortravels, the highlight for me was their chassis and Sem-Monocoque construction. I don't know how much of that benefit was lost with them going to the Spartan chassis. Looking at the earlier Realms on the K3 chassis I question the advantage of paying the Fortravel premium    when 2018's are priced close to a new 2024 left over Cornerstone. If I was buying new my challenge would be the floor plans. Both Newmar and Entegra offer floor plans I find much more favorable than Foretravel. But only Foretravel offers the K4 chassis which as I understand is a full tube, not C channel frame rail system.
Dennis Haynes
Bohemia NY
2008 Nimbus 342 SE Carlyle
Build #6475
Motorcade #19148

Re: Compare and contrast ...

Reply #5 –
On the other hand, I've never seen anything that flexes as much as our U300. It really creaks and groans at every road transition plus the windshield moves around so I have to wait for a hot day and move it back about 3/4" once a year. Our old Buffalo Bus never complained once, sort of like a Lexus. But then, it was a true Monocoque. The front 9 feet and the rear 14 feet of our U300 are just conventional construction. How many feet does that leave for "bridge" construction in a 36 footer?

Our old SOB not only flexed but had only very thin walled 1 1/4" tubing supporting the sides and roof. Any kind of accident would have resulted in only tiny pieces. I have photos of the construction as I took it apart for the transfer station and will post when I find them.

But compared to most other motorhomes, the Foretravel coaches do seem much better construction and would allow passengers to survive a rollover better than most. Not so much a head on with a tall vehicle.

Pierce

Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Compare and contrast ...

Reply #6 –
Once more unto the breach
Until Lotus or some other sports car company builds a motor home there is NO such thing as a monocoque motor home they ALL have a chassis of some sort. The closest you'll get is a modern car with a stamped panel body.
Monocoque means the outer skin is the structure, think airplane fuselage or a beer can or a cigar tube.
Same goes for semi monocoque it's like being slightly pregnant, really ?
88 Grand Villa 36' ORED 3208 (throwaway)Cat.
 Build # 3150
Happiness is the maximum agreement of reality and desire.

Re: Compare and contrast ...

Reply #7 –
King Aire is built on the same line as all of Newmar's other DPs.  Not sure if the gassers and the Super C's go down the same line as well, but you'll see a King Aire go through a station with a Canyon Star and a Northern Star before and after it.  It's definitely a fast-paced production line where some things that aren't quite right will wait to be addressed after the coach is completed rather than stopping and fixing when they're found.  Newmar does not provide schematics and does not have wire numbering like Foretravel does.  Wiring and plumbing also aren't as tidy and secure as Foretravel; wiring especially can look like a bit of a rat's nest.

Realm Presidential will be built with Realm 605 and that's about it, so every coach built by the production line is a high-end coach.  Every house wire will likely be numbered every few inches for most of its length (not sure about the chassis wiring that is part of the Spartan portion of the build.)  There will be schematics and a wire list available.  Wires will generally be neatly bundled and split-loomed. 

King Aire will have a very skilled interior design team.  I think Foretravel still has a designer, but on some of the newer coaches they seem to let the owner make "taste-specific" choices that really should have been politely redirected to something more harmonious. 

Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

SPLIT: Bus construction (split from Re: Compare and contrast ...)

Reply #8 –
Secondary discussion regarding construction of other vehicles have been moved to Around the Fire Ring - https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=48835.0.  Let's stay focused on OP's question about Foretravels.
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Compare and contrast ...

Reply #9 –
I'm looking for ride quality comparisons from the current Nimbus to something with the Independant front suspension. I am considering upgrading to an IH 45. For my existing coach as much as I enjoy it, on Northeast roads, bad pavement quickly reminds me that I am still in a motorhome. Road impacts and rut tracking.  For anyone that has transitioned from a non IFS Nimbus to one of the later, better models could you provide some feedback?  I may also consider early Realm. I test drove a 2006 Featherlight Prevost XLII yesterday. Wow! But is that even a reasonable choice. Floor plan still not right for us. The base of the question is if there is any real value ride wise to go to a later Foretravel or just keep what I have?
Thank you,
Dennis
Dennis Haynes
Bohemia NY
2008 Nimbus 342 SE Carlyle
Build #6475
Motorcade #19148

Re: Compare and contrast ...

Reply #10 –
Dennis, don't know if the Nimbus had the same suspension as my 1997 36' U295 had. The IH45 and that coach are different animals.  The IH is 13; 2" tall. As far as ride and driving, here is no comparison between the two.  I had kept the U295 for over a year after getting the IH since I was building a lake house and really could not get the IH through the subdivision so I was driving both.  Comment wife made after going back to the U295 was that she really noticed the ride difference going back to the U295 and not so much going from U295 to IH.

I feel the IH has the best suspension that Foretravel has made. The Realms do not have the outside mounted air bags on the drive axle like the IH has.  The only thing that the Realms have is you can get is what they call "Performance Choice"  They put ping tanks on the front bags, thus giving the bag more volume. When you hit a bump, the extra volume lets the bag compress a little more, thus smoother ride. I have talked to owners that have upgraded their coach and ones that have the feature on their coach. Both groups say the ride is way better.  I talked to FOT about adding to my coach and they said that the valve to use the ping tank or not goes on top of the air bag and the IH does not have enough room to put the valve there. I was thinking about doing it myself and just mount the valve in line but have not gotten past thinking about it.

The IH also has HWH Active Air. When it works it is great. The AA will in a turn add more air to the side leaning to help keep the coach level. It also helps when their are cross winds.  The wind has to be really wild before I even feel it. I have traveled with others that have SOB's, but same size that complained about the cross wind, that I don't feel, and about how fast I take turns, where they can't keep up with me on turns.
2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: Compare and contrast ...

Reply #11 –
Since this thread's OP was wondering about the difference between the KA and Presidential I have learned a few differences. One is the floor heat in Foretravel's use thermostats to regulate the floor heat, where the KA only has the heat on for a portion of time in a 20 minute window. The both look like they have the same setup. A 1-10 temp levels, 1 being the coolest and 10 the warmest.. The Foretravel will not shut down the heat until floor get to the set temp, the KA, only lets it run part of the time so if you have a KA it will take longer for the floor to get warm unless you crank it up to 10 and then when the floor gets warm you go and lower the number.

I don't remember what the other differences were but when I do I will post here.
2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: Compare and contrast ...

Reply #12 –
Quote from: turbojack –
I don't remember what the other differences were but when I do I will post here.

I believe KA has an Oasis, where Presidential (and IH) will have AquaHot (600D series, I believe).
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Compare and contrast ...

Reply #13 –
Quote from: turbojack –
Dennis, don't know if the Nimbus had the same suspension as my 1997 36' U295 had. The IH45 and that coach are different animals.  The IH is 13; 2" tall. As far as ride and driving, here is no comparison between the two.  I had kept the U295 for over a year after getting the IH since I was building a lake house and really could not get the IH through the subdivision so I was driving both.  Comment wife made after going back to the U295 was that she really noticed the ride difference going back to the U295 and not so much going from U295 to IH.

I feel the IH has the best suspension that Foretravel has made. The Realms do not have the outside mounted air bags on the drive axle like the IH has.  The only thing that the Realms have is you can get is what they call "Performance Choice"  They put ping tanks on the front bags, thus giving the bag more volume. When you hit a bump, the extra volume lets the bag compress a little more, thus smoother ride. I have talked to owners that have upgraded their coach and ones that have the feature on their coach. Both groups say the ride is way better.  I talked to FOT about adding to my coach and they said that the valve to use the ping tank or not goes on top of the air bag and the IH does not have enough room to put the valve there. I was thinking about doing it myself and just mount the valve in line but have not gotten past thinking about it.

The IH also has HWH Active Air. When it works it is great. The AA will in a turn add more air to the side leaning to help keep the coach level. It also helps when there are cross winds.  The wind has to be really wild before I even feel it. I have traveled with others that have SOB's, but same size that complained about the cross wind, that I don't feel, and about how fast I take turns, where they can't keep up with me on turns.

I think my suspension is similar to the earlier coaches. I have the 4 air bags upfront. It is one of the features that attracted me to Foretravel, besides the disk brakes, and large engine. I see those later years some Nimbus, all Phenix and IH 45 have the IFS, just different axle capacities. As for roll and wind resistance I am actually quite pleased with how the unit handles and feels. It took some getting used to the Tag keeping the back planted in place while the front moves a bit. It seems that it is still a bit of an effort to keep it between the lines. Some of that is driver skill and not over correcting.
Dennis Haynes
Bohemia NY
2008 Nimbus 342 SE Carlyle
Build #6475
Motorcade #19148

Re: Compare and contrast ...

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Dennis H –
I think my suspension is similar to the earlier coaches. I have the 4 air bags upfront.

My U295 was 36' so no tag axle.  Had total of 8 air bags.  4 on front straight axle, 4 rear drive axle. 

I was really impressed with the IFS.  Turns sharper then the U295, drives like I am driving my pickup, just sitting way higher up, (besides being wider and way longer. )
2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: Compare and contrast ...

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Ralph –
(besides being wider and way longer. )

Wider? How much wider than the U295?

I was comparing to my pickup truck.
2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: Compare and contrast ...

Reply #16 –
My bad...after reading your post again, I got my head screwed on straight 😩😤

I have considered an IH myself and was so heavy into the comparsion to the 295 that the pickup flew right by me......
Ralph
96 U270
 

Re: Compare and contrast ...

Reply #17 –
Quote from: turbojack –
I was really impressed with the IFS.  Turns sharper then the U295, drives like I am driving my pickup, just sitting way higher up, (besides being wider and way longer. )

I believe that the Active Air is a huge contributor to the feel of the IFS coaches.  I recall a couple of the early IFS Phenix owners complaining that the coach didn't ride as well as the solid front axle of their previous Foretravels, and that as a result, Foretravel worked with HWH to develop the Active Air system to compensate.

Verify that a particular IFS coach has Active Air since there are some that won't, and last I heard, HWH isn't installing it aftermarket due to staffing issues.
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320