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Topic: 2010 Phenix 45' Failed hitch inspiration  (Read 2369 times) previous topic - next topic

2010 Phenix 45' Failed hitch inspiration

Finally started and finished my 2010 Phenix 45' failed  inspired hitch reinforcement. Had this in the back of my mind since his last event. 1/2 steel top plate to triangulate hitch and prevent being torn off by FAT TOAD truck. I've been pulling a 2006 Dodge 3500 diesel 4x4 at about 7200 lbs. During install found factory welds undercut into base material along top right side. Had to remove and reinstall trailer plug to accommodate welding direct to hitch. With all the prior computer failures i purchased I removed ground wires on batteries and installed on positive posts to short out coach electrical systems. DO NOT SHORT OUT BATTERIES!!! Will have to go tow the truck 30-40K miles to see how it works out now.
Scott

Re: Brad Metzger hitch inspiration

Reply #1 –
Well, it sure looks stout!  I have always wondered about the strength of the pin that goes through the receiver and the tow bar.  To my eyes it seems kinda puny when talking about towing 3 or 4 tons of towd.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Brad Metzger hitch inspiration

Reply #2 –
5/8 pin in shear is capable (guessing) 30-40 K pounds possibly more
Scott

Re: Brad Metzger hitch inspiration

Reply #3 –
It's on my list to reinforce the hitch.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: Brad Metzger hitch inspiration

Reply #4 –
For reference you can look at a grade 8 bolt that is 5/8 inch diameter and the tensile strength is 150,000 lbs per square inch. The ultimate sheer strength is typically about 60% of the tension strength, putting that sheer strength at about 90,000 lbs.
And I think you would double that number because there are two shear sections

Re: Brad Metzger hitch inspiration

Reply #5 –
Chuck and Scott, I was just reading a Purdue University study on ag equipment hitch pins.  These are essentially the vertical equivalent of a receiver and towbar although in ag equipment uses it is generally a much sloppier fit.
https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/ppp/ppp-94.pdf

5/8" grade 2 has a shear strength of 44,000 psi and a maximum force capacity of 27,243 pounds.
5/8" grade 5 has a shear strength of 72,000 psi and a maximum force capacity of 44,179 pounds.
5/8" grade 8 has a shear strength of 90,000 psi and a maximum force capacity of 55,223 pounds.

For a max load of 10,000 lbs a common pin has about a safety margin of 2.7.  But if the pin is loose in the holes and the tow abr is loose in the receiver the loads can be much higher.

Switching to a grade 5 or grade 8 bolt with washers and a nylock nut tightened up but not so much as to distort the rceiver tube and and anti-rattle tow bar clamp minimizes movement and slop and greatly increases the hitch pin strength.

You can get grade 5 and 8 ag equipment pins, and in much bigger diameters.  If a bolt works it might be a good choice.
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN

Failed 2010 Phenix 45' hitch inspiration

Reply #6 –
I'm not concerned about the pin. In forty years I've personally never seen one damaged. Harbor freight 99 cent pins included. Not recommended. But my pin hole is worn in my coach and I have considered drilling out to 11/16 just to tighten it up. 11/16 grade 8 bolt would never fail.  I'm sure there is repair bushings but just going to the next size would work fine. But I'm more concerned about a bunch of other stuff first.

Re: 2010 Phenix 45' Failed hitch inspiration

Reply #7 –
As the saga continues I'm adding additional receiver hitches to make a triangulated three point hitch. They are in compression so I need to make as long. Will make a three point motorcycle rack on the back of the coach and a travel bumper when not pulling anything. This will also provide a little more drag protection. The PO had dragged and bent the radiator and I dragged the tailpipe before I had a operation HWH ride computer.
Scott

Re: 2010 Phenix 45' Failed hitch inspiration

Reply #8 –
So added led travel light bar. I was using this on my toad and really liked how visible the lights are. It can be easily unpinned and still used for toad lights and makes a place to store it so it doesn't get lost. Plugs into the seven pin trailer connector. Brakes , turn signals and additional clearance lights. First photo mid day second 30 minutes before dusk without and with brake lights last twilight running lights
Scott

Re: 2010 Phenix 45' Failed hitch inspiration

Reply #9 –
@dsd
How has the upgraded hitch held up?  Would like to do something similar on my u320 because my toad will be ~8k lbs.

If you did this again, would you change the design or reinforce other areas?  Thanks!
1999 U320 40 WTFE build #5462

Re: 2010 Phenix 45' Failed hitch inspiration

Reply #10 –
Quote from: jammoto –
@dsd
How has the upgraded hitch held up?  Would like to do something similar on my u320 because my toad will be ~8k lbs.

If you did this again, would you change the design or reinforce other areas?  Thanks!
Well since you ask I have given this a lot of thought. The 5/8 pin holes in my receiver are elongated and although I now use an anti rattle U clamp I kinda wished I had replaced mine with new. I have considered making step  washer's and welding in place. Will probably eventually do just that. This would have been a great time to upsize to a 2 1/2 receiver. Much better numbers on them. All your HD pickups now come with them standard. The 1/2 inch plate provides a huge strength increase structurally.
BUT.   
I now after pondering over Old Man Peter's coach consider the welding practices on our entire frames although considered fine by Foretravel within there build requirements, IMO those frame sections should have been welded to accepted welding procedures too produce 100% of base material strength. They are 3/8" thick and a single pass of 1/8" rod doesn't meet 100% of the frame strength. That being said there really hasn't been an example to being insufficient.
Care must be given to make sure the rear door clears during opening and closing on the added gusset. I think it will resolve any deficiencies on the receiver portion itself.

Re: 2010 Phenix 45' Failed hitch inspiration

Reply #11 –
@dsd Thank you for the thoughtful reply.  You bring up an excellent point on the 2.5" receiver tube.

I asked a similar question in this thread (link below) and it looks like another member welded one in.  How would one properly weld the 2.5" receiver to the 3/8" frame with 100% strength?

what to do before welding. &. beefing up hitch
1999 U320 40 WTFE build #5462

Re: 2010 Phenix 45' Failed hitch inspiration

Reply #12 –
The receiver tube is 1/4". Going to the larger tube will lower the hitch 1/2". Multi pass welds instead of single pass welds. All welds at the appropriate heat range to promote proper penetration. Preheating your base material a couple hundred degrees will assist this and allow welds to flow in better. Properly prepared edges. These are all simple required procedures for certified welds. Huge benefit of a certified welder is the have had there work stressed to failure and in doing so learn what has to be done to lessen a failure by increasing strength. I'm all about everyone learning how to weld correctly, not just making a pretty weld. FT welded all the way around the receiver tube causing a localized stress point.
proper welding techniques 3/8 steel - Google Search
When welding 3/8 inch steel, the most appropriate technique typically involves using a multi-pass approach with a slightly bevelled edge, utilizing a high heat input to achieve deep penetration, and often employing a "stringer bead" technique with a slight weaving motion to ensure proper fusion throughout the weld thickness; depending on the welding process (MIG, TIG, or stick), specific adjustments to wire feed speed, amperage, and electrode selection are necessary to achieve optimal results.
Key points for welding 3/8 steel:
Joint preparation:
A slight bevel on the edges of the steel plate will help create a good weld pool and prevent excessive heat buildup.
Multiple passes:
For thick material like 3/8 inch steel, multiple passes are usually required to ensure complete penetration.
Welding process:
MIG welding: Use a larger diameter wire, higher amperage settings, and a slightly slower travel speed to achieve deep penetration.
Stick welding: Select a suitable electrode size and use a "stringer bead" technique with slight weaving to distribute heat evenly.
TIG welding: Employ a high heat input with a slightly slower travel speed for good penetration.
Travel angle:
Maintain a slight forward travel angle to direct the molten metal into the joint.
Heat control:
Be mindful of heat input to avoid excessive warping or burning through the material.
Specific welding techniques for 3/8 steel:
Root pass:
When welding a joint with a gap, start with a "root pass" to fill the gap and create a good foundation for subsequent passes.
Hot pass:
Follow the root pass with a "hot pass" using a higher heat setting to further melt the base material and improve penetration.
Fill passes:
Subsequent passes should be "fill passes" to build up the weld bead to the desired thickness.
Cap pass:
Finish with a "cap pass" to smooth out the weld bead and seal the edges.
Important considerations:
Cleaning and preparation:
Always thoroughly clean the welding area to remove any contaminants before welding.
Proper shielding gas:
Select the appropriate shielding gas based on the welding process and material.
Practice good technique:
Maintain a consistent arc length, travel speed, and wire feed speed for optimal weld quality.
Safety precautions:
Wear appropriate personal protective equipment (PPE) including gloves, safety glasses, and a welding helmet

Re: 2010 Phenix 45' Failed hitch inspiration

Reply #13 –
Does anybody have a recommended shop anywhere between Nacogdoches and Houston* area that can do this hitch upgrade? 

*Expanding the range to be anywhere between southern Texas to California into mid March.
1999 U320 40 WTFE build #5462

Re: 2010 Phenix 45' Failed hitch inspiration

Reply #14 –
Quote from: jammoto –
Does anybody have a recommended shop anywhere between Nacogdoches and Houston* area that can do this hitch upgrade? 

*Expanding the range to be anywhere between southern Texas to California into mid March.
Go to a farm machinery dealer or grain elevator and ask who is the best welder in the area.  A small service station or auto parts store in a smaller town might be another place to ask.
Dave and Kelli
1997 U295 40' Build #5188 CSGI
1995 U240 36' Build #4621 SBID-SOLD
2006 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon

Re: 2010 Phenix 45' Failed hitch inspiration

Reply #15 –
Another option would be go to your local water jet cutting company. Show them a photo with some dimensions and have them cut one. They always have scrape from other projects. Ask them if they can recommend a local welder

Re: 2010 Phenix 45' Failed hitch inspiration

Reply #16 –
Thomas Welding in Nacogdoches took care of the job. (stick weld)  The underside of the plate is also welded along the edge of the receiver tube.

The batteries were disconnected prior to welding the receiver.

Big thanks to @dsd for the idea and sharing recommendations!

Here's photos of their work:
https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?media/item/nm-hitch1.5366/
https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?media/item/nm-hitch2.5366/
1999 U320 40 WTFE build #5462

Re: 2010 Phenix 45' Failed hitch inspiration

Reply #17 –
That sure is a long neck on that hitch! Could it be cut down any?
Richard & Betty Bark & Keiko our Golden Doodle
2003 U320T 3820 PBDS
Build # 6215
MC # 16926
2016 Chevrolet Colorado 4X4 diesel

Re: 2010 Phenix 45' Failed hitch inspiration

Reply #18 –
It is the roadmaster blackhawk: BLACKHAWK TOW BARS - Roadmaster Inc.

Might make more sense to drill a hitch pin hole further down the tube/bar, which would also allow more bar to go further into the receiver.
1999 U320 40 WTFE build #5462

Re: 2010 Phenix 45' Failed hitch inspiration

Reply #19 –
Shocker hitch

Shocker hitch

I definitely think that a addional length inserted is good and helps to change the stress point loading right on the one weld that goes around the hitch. This is were Brads (RIP) failed IMO
 

Re: 2010 Phenix 45' Failed hitch inspiration

Reply #20 –
Take care of all the coaches electrical composted in advance
Leonard and Sherry Casteen                             
1998 u295 36'   
Build # 5257                     
2001 Jeep Cherokee                                             
Springdale SC                                       
Australian Labradoodle    Ginny