Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Trip to MOT - Looking for my next coach - Thoughts on a Phenix 45 (Read 39067 times) previous topic - next topic

Trip to MOT - Looking for my next coach - Thoughts on a Phenix 45

First Visit to MOT

As a 3rd generation Foretravel owner starting to look for my next coach, I thought I'd share my experience in case it helps others who are thinking of making the trip.

First, MOT really does have a huge selection of Foretravels—many years and different models—plus plenty of other brands. The big upside for me and my family was being able to walk through so many different floorplans in one place. For anyone in the market, I think that part alone is worth the trip, if you can do it cost effectively.

Where things got tricky was the condition of the coaches compared to what I expected from the listings online. Many of them have clearly been sitting for months, even years, and it shows. Walking through them, I noticed the kinds of things you'd expect with age and neglect: slides or doors that didn't want to move, fogged or cracked windows, overdue tires, delamination, A/C units that weren't cooling, and paint or finish issues here and there. None of this is shocking on its own, but when you see it across so many coaches, it does make you pause. The thought that kept running through my head was, "If these problems are this obvious right away, what else might be going on that I can't see? And at the asking prices, are sellers and buyers really meeting in the middle?"

The pricing structure only adds to that concern. MOT's consignment model seems to allow sellers to park their coaches indefinitely at whatever price they choose. That builds the large inventory—which certainly benefits MOT—but it also means many of the coaches are priced as if they're turnkey when they're far from it. Sometimes it feels like this practice may even help keep prices inflated for future sellers.

As a buyer, I think it's important to set expectations. Most of what I saw at MOT, at least at the advertised prices, didn't line up with what I would expect willing buyers to pay. And that probably explains why so many coaches have been sitting there for so long. Of course, that's just my perspective.

With all of that said, I don't want this to sound like I'm bashing MOT overall. Scott, who I worked with, was excellent—friendly, knowledgeable, and patient. And their service shop looked top-notch, maybe the best part of the whole operation.

If I had to sum it up, I'd say go to MOT expecting to see many projects. We didn't come across many "write a check and drive it home" options, at least not among the coaches we walked through.

One last thought—I'd really be curious to hear what others think about pricing on something like Stock # C3118, a 2008 45' Foretravel Phenix 445 listed at $159K. On paper it looks like a decent deal, but in person I noticed issues inside and out, from delamination to interior finish wear to windows and A/Cs needing attention. To me, a really nice example of this coach might be worth around $150K, especially considering IH-45s are now starting in the low $200Ks. But this one seemed like it would need another $30K–$50K in work. I don't have inspections or work orders—just my impression after walking it and comparing with service records I've seen from a similar 2008 Nimbus.

So what do you all think—does $150K sound like a fair "fixer-upper" price for this coach, or am I undervaluing it?

Re: Trip to MOT - Looking for my next coach - Thoughts on a Phenix 45

Reply #1 –
The delamination alone, if a good shop who knows what they're doing is willing to take it on, will run you that full $30-50K "repair" budget.  We've had some discussions with Greg and James at Xtreme about these, given we've seen several in their shop over the years.  And if you're noticing any rust stains along the beltline area (which we did see on at least one FT at MOT), that's not something they will address - they'll tell you to save your money and enjoy the coach as is as long as you can.

If you're seriously interested in a specific coach, see if Greg will go over the exterior with you and give you guidance on what would be involved, timewise (delam repair and repaint can take several months) and cost-wise. 

ETA - also do a little research on the 2007-2010 ISX engine, its valves, and in the case of a Foretravel, what's needed with the dry PTO that runs the fans.  The PTO isn't a big deal if it's been maintained with spline grease (there's no wet kit that will fit), but the valves on an ISX are a weak point.

Re: Trip to MOT - Looking for my next coach - Thoughts on a Phenix 45

Reply #2 –
I have similar impression from MOT re pricing and conditions.  I have not been there yet, but likely soon.  Looking at a 40 nimbus, the updated pics had the cracked windshield, some paint issue, among others, another one that had much more exterior issues.  No service records, at least on the ones, I was interested in.  No recall / TSB info either.  You'd think with FT across the street, at the least, they can confirm recall/TSB issues for their units.  Critical info to know before purchase.

In contrast, another dealer in WA, had same year/length Phenix, with far better features (Engine, tranny , etc), for the same price!    They even have the service records which they shared, as well as the original production sheet from FT listing various components and part numbers too.  The updated pics, also matched what was advertised.

I wonder if some of this overpricing maybe related to the COVID/ZIRP era which ballooned prices (RVs, Housing etc.)  beyond reason?  Perhaps, some people haven't adjusted to the changing markets yet.

OTH, I wonder if some of the over prices maybe related to new and first time RV buyers.  A few years back I met an older gentleman at  Newmar factory service with a new DP, who was very happy to get a few thousand $ of the list price!!  Totally unaware, at the time, a27-30% of list price was rather common for new Newmar DPs.  He thought, he was purchasing a car!

Just as an FYI, in case you haven't seen this Phenix from a private party;

Used 2006 Foretravel Phenix 440 in Houston, TX - 5037194611 - RV Trader

Re: Trip to MOT - Looking for my next coach - Thoughts on a Phenix 45

Reply #4 –
I dug back a bit, and about a year ago, a member had a 2009 Nimbus on consignment at MOT for $169K that had a delamination issue.  It had already been repaired once ($29K in 2017 at FOT), and it was unclear if this was a new issue or the repair hadn't worked.  They weren't going to entertain another repair attempt.  In any case, they dropped the price to $99K/make offer and it did sell fairly quickly after that price drop.

Just a single data point and every listing is different.

Re: Trip to MOT - Looking for my next coach - Thoughts on a Phenix 45

Reply #5 –
My thoughts are similar to yours concerning MOT. I just don't think they are all there cracked up to be.

Re: Trip to MOT - Looking for my next coach - Thoughts on a Phenix 45

Reply #6 –
Huge past MOT fan here, bought my coach and had it serviced there for 10 years. We always felt good about giving them our business based on the level care we received.

Everything seemed to change at about 2 years ago. They became a big company......seemed to have lost that "family" feel.

The second generation owners came into management, it appears that others were pushed out or left. The owner moved his office offsite, which for me was a red flag.

We were there recently for the first time in a couple of years to get an electrical issue resolved. They were not busy and got us in the next day. Can't really describe it but it felt different. The tech's that we knew were happy to see us. It's hard to describe but it felt like a different place.

Re: Trip to MOT - Looking for my next coach - Thoughts on a Phenix 45

Reply #7 –
I visited MOT back in February 2024 with intent to purchase one of three coaches that had my attention. I was there for 3 days. Yes, they have a lot of Foretravel rigs there. The factory in close proximity probably the main reason.  Of the three rigs I looked at one of them is still there. Wrong sofa bed not bolted down, a slide room not working, hacked exhaust, cooling fans stuck full speed. For the rig that Michelle mentioned, I saw that one also. The interior and floorplan had my interest. There was a Delam repair that was a hack job. Mostly being a 40 foot non tag with only the ISL 425 there was no way I would consider $169K, even if it was a 2009. My initial attraction to Foretravel was I wanted the tag, ISM, 40 foot or less. The 42-footer I now have was not in the plan.
As a realist I do not expect a rig approaching 15 years to be perfect. However, MOT presents their offerings in a "high" fashion. Most seemed to just drop off, detailed, and put on display. Many actually were in need of some type of repair.
Purchasing a used Foretravel there is definitely a price premium for what they really are.  Adding the consignment factor and MOT adds to that premium a bit and there seems to be no urgency to sell. I think they could do better at least to have the rigs "Fully Operational" and as some of us want "better" they could also have the rigs fully evaluated, list of things needed with the estimates for the work. They are missing an opportunity.
The future challenge for them will be that Foretravel of Texas is now taking trades and selling direct. I see the better, newer rigs will be going that way instead of the past MOT default. Still, for anyone exploring a Foretravel especially an older one MOT is worth the trip.

Re: Trip to MOT - Looking for my next coach - Thoughts on a Phenix 45

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Dennis H –

The future challenge for them will be that Foretravel of Texas is now taking trades and selling direct. I see the better, newer rigs will be going that way instead of the past MOT default. Still, for anyone exploring a Foretravel especially an older one MOT is worth the trip.

Dennis,

I saw that Foretravel had added some listings for "Forestar Certified" coaches, but not that they were selling new ones direct.  I wonder if something has changed regarding Blue Compass being the exclusive dealer? 

ETA - Donny O'Banion in New Role at Blue Compass Motorized - RVBusiness - Breaking...

Quote
Donny O'Banion, President of MHS, will be stepping down from his day-to-day role running MHS on December 31, 2024.   

Donny O'Banion will continue to serve as a valuable partner of Blue Compass RV, supporting the motorized business, including Foretravel.

Quote
"While Donny will be stepping back from his current role as President of MHS, I am pleased that he will continue to contribute his expertise to our motorized business,"


Those of us with a long history with Foretravel will recall the factory stores that closed around 2003/4, then Foretravel ceasing consignment operations (which led to David Robertson leaving FT and starting MOT), then MOT being a dealer, then not, then an arrangement with a pseudo-dealer (Platinum - not really a dealership but a family) in Lewisville.

Re: Trip to MOT - Looking for my next coach - Thoughts on a Phenix 45

Reply #9 –
Just so much history!
Thank you!

Re: Trip to MOT - Looking for my next coach - Thoughts on a Phenix 45

Reply #10 –
I'd like to share our experience and also why MOT is successful. First and foremost - where else can you go and walk through so many Foretravels in one place?  We showed up knowing the coaches were on consignment and their owners believed in various levels of routine maintenance.  You can also look at other brands. 

We worked with Scott Weaver.  It was a large commitment on our part as we live in South Carolina. Scott went above and beyond sending us walkthrough videos of specific coaches and finding service records for the ones we were interested in. 

When we arrived we were greeted by a staff of people that were truly glad we were there.  After selecting a coach we arranged to have it inspected by an independent inspector and it turned up a few deficiencies that we then negotiated with the owner on.  Everything was handled with courtesy and professionalism.

We left our "new" coach at MOT to have the negotiated repairs made (this was our plan all along regardless of what we bought as we were on a trip to places further west).  Scott kept us up to date on the progress and we scheduled to take "delivery". 

MOT excelled at the delivery.  Scott spent most of the day acclimating us with our new coach and then we spent 2 nights making sure we knew how things worked in their covered "delivery area". 

Cheri and I believe the value provided by MOT was worth any premium we may have paid.  We had looked at a few "for sale by owner coaches" and that really left a bad taste in our mouths. 

Finally you're looking at used coaches with varying pedigrees.  Pay for an inspection and be willing to walk away.

Peace,
Don and Cheri Nesbitt

Re: Trip to MOT - Looking for my next coach - Thoughts on a Phenix 45

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Dennis H –
However, MOT presents their offerings in a "high" fashion. Most seemed to just drop off, detailed, and put on display. Many actually were in need of some type of repair. Purchasing a used Foretravel there is definitely a price premium for what they really are.  Adding the consignment factor and MOT adds to that premium a bit and there seems to be no urgency to sell. I think they could do better at least to have the rigs "Fully Operational" and as some of us want "better" they could also have the rigs fully evaluated, list of things needed with the estimates for the work. They are missing an opportunity.

I completely agree.

I'll also echo ... Scott has always been great to work with!!  He is super transparent and if I was selling a Foretravel today, no matter what issues MOT has, they really are the ones to go to.  My reasoning is they do have all the eyes if you follow this brand.

With all of that being said, we are now looking outside of Foretravel with Scott. I really wish there was a FT on the market right now to meets our needs and is willing to be sold for what I believe is fair and responsible. If the consignees out there really wanted to sell their coaches, there are a few that need some love and would be a great coach for the right buyer.  But since you can literarily go park there and put it up for sale, there is no incentive to sell it if you don't want.

Last thing I will mention is we went to The Motorcoach Store in FL.  WOW!!! And if you fallow Andrew Steele, this reverse auction idea is pretty interesting and cool. It finds the real market.



Re: Trip to MOT - Looking for my next coach - Thoughts on a Phenix 45

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Don N –
Finally you're looking at used coaches with varying pedigrees.  Pay for an inspection and be willing to walk away.
Hi Don, We did end up getting an inspection done on a coach we are interested in and so glad we did before even talking about an offer.

It came back with major electrical issues, generator issues, aquahot issues, and a variety of things that needed attention.  My rough guess is this could run $30K to $50K to bring it up to a condition anyone would want.

I know it is not my business, but it is hard for me to understand how MOT would not want to set some sort of standards for coaches they represent or take in. So many of these coaches need thousands of dollars in repairs. The "basics" really should be covered or at least disclosed, so people don't waste their time.  Slides work, generators run, all basic electrical systems work, major heating and cooling systems work ...

Just my 2 cents.  Happy travels.

 

Re: Trip to MOT - Looking for my next coach - Thoughts on a Phenix 45

Reply #13 –
MOT for the most part is a consignment dealer. Therefore as with anything used its buyer beware. Some sellers are willing to make the necessary repairs prior to consignment, others not so much for varying reasons.MOT is, as you know is a full service repair dealer so it's a win win for them, sales commission and repairs .