Working Safely around your Foretravel

Topic: Working Safely around your Foretravel (Read 18390 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #25 – November 24, 2010, 11:20:05 pm

Went to LOWES..They would not cut...excuse they used was saw not able to cut that size...Believe associate was just Lazy...but..

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #26 – November 27, 2010, 08:03:41 pm

Question... does the FT have Hyd. leveling jacks? and couldn't they be used to block up the coach and how would one use the "safety blocks" when using the leveling jacks?

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #27 – November 27, 2010, 09:22:06 pm

Most (except for some of the U-225 and U240's) of the Foretravels built in the '90's and all from '95 on have air-bag suspensions, no leveling jacks. That is one of the advantages of our coaches, no need to level with hydraulic jacks.

Safety blocks keep the "house" portion elevated above the chassis frame.

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #28 – November 28, 2010, 06:57:59 am

Thanks Don.
I thought the Air Bags were installed on the suspension system and not between the house and coach frame. Learned something today!

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #29 – November 28, 2010, 10:05:47 am

Quote

How about this for a safety block....4" x 6" x 10" wood block. Bought an 8' length at Home Depot and had them cut it into 10" pieces.
They seem to work fine. I used two on each side of the front and one on each side of the back. Lowered the coach until they were tight. I could not find anything suitable in steel.

Hey Thanks George,,,that gives me an idea. I still have several of the tops we cut off my Pole Barn poles when I built it... They are 6"X6". Is 10" the right length to use?

Mike

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #30 – November 28, 2010, 10:53:14 am

Quote from: Mike McFall – November 28, 2010, 10:05:47 am

Is 10" the right length to use?
Mike

I use 11".
It gives you a little more room underneath.

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #31 – November 28, 2010, 11:21:46 am

11" would be better. I was concerned about getting them in, but there is plenty of room.

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #32 – November 28, 2010, 12:58:40 pm

Quote from: George Hatfield – November 24, 2010, 11:04:20 pm

How about this for a safety block....4" x 6" x 10" wood block. Bought an 8' length at Home Depot and had them cut it into 10" pieces.
They seem to work fine. I used two on each side of the front and one on each side of the back. Lowered the coach until they were tight. I could not find anything suitable in steel.

George,
It's good to use two safety blocks on each side and please do me an additional favor.
When you use your wooden safety blocks, place the 6" dimension of the block in line with the frame (instead of the 4" dimension). The reason being that, from an engineering perspective, if the wood does not bear weight from above and does not have a solid bearing surface from below, in essence, it does not even exist. Therefore, as shown in your picture, your wooden safety block is not 4'X6"X10". It is instead, approximately 2.5"(the frame and suspension structural elements have rounded corners)X4"X10". Another way to view it is how easily a crack propagates, in a block of wood, when you initiate a split with a splitting maul.
Unlike a metal molecular structure, when a shear force is in line with wood grain, and you exceed the "plastic deformation" yield stress of the grain of the wood, the strength of the wood becomes very low. Now the compressive force yield strength of wood, perpendicular to the grain of the wood, is a different matter. Wooden safety blocks placed with the grain running perpendicular to the compression force, would be many times stronger (roughly, a minimum of ten times stronger, depending upon the type of wood and the imperfections present).
I personally feel that 2"X2"X1/4" Web steel is the minimum strength that is trustworthy and (because it is what I had handy) I personally use 2"X4"X1/4" Web (X 11.5").
Just a personal safety concern,
Neal

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #33 – November 28, 2010, 01:25:34 pm

Neal... good point. I will turn them sideways from now on. I would prefer metal and will replace them when I can find something like you show in your photos. Thanks!!

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #34 – November 28, 2010, 02:24:00 pm

George,

Any welding shop should be able to make them for you, also there is Metal Supermarkets that will cut to length and probably has that rectangular tubing in stock.

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #35 – November 28, 2010, 02:37:50 pm

Quote from: John Cooper – November 28, 2010, 02:24:00 pm

George,
Any welding shop should be able to make them for you, also there is Metal Supermarkets that will cut to length and probably has that rectangular tubing in stock.

I got mine cut at a scrap metal facility.

Safety Jacks

Reply #36 – December 10, 2010, 02:18:21 pm

Based on pictures posted by Bill Willett, I had some safety jacks built by a local welding shop. They are adjustable from heights of about 7 1/2" to 11". My plan was to be able to insert or remove the jacks while the coach is shut down and level. I don't have to raise or lower the coach in order to place or remove the jacks.

I assume one could set them for proper ride height and tweak the ride height valves to a good setting. I'll probably leave that task to the experts.

A bonus I found when I picked up the jacks is that stowing them in a container is easier when they are taken apart.

I visited the welding shop with pictures of Willett's safety jacks, and the coach. The folk at the shop took measurements and fabricated the jacks in about 10 days. Cost was $40/jack.

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #37 – December 10, 2010, 03:15:20 pm

Love those red jacks! Look well thought out. Nice!

Pierce & Gaylie
93'U300/36

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #38 – December 10, 2010, 11:23:12 pm

Hi JD,
Real nice jacks. What is the diameter of the threaded rod/bar?
Thanks,

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #39 – December 11, 2010, 09:58:18 am

Threaded portion is 1" all thread. Pipe is 1 1/4" OD. Head and feet are 4" channel. The thread fits loosely into the pipe.

The stress is all compressional. The connection of the H frame to the chassis eliminates any lateral forces. The weakest point would probably be the nut on the threads. The jack must support up to 10,000# in order to provide protection if the air bags deflate.

Before I left the welding shop, we put a jack at each corner of the coach and deflated the air bags. There was a small amount of creaking in the suspension system, but all seemed solid.

After I returned home, I leveled the coach in a relatively high position, placed the jacks, and crawled around in the dirt under the coach for the first time. I could see a lot of parts, connections, and controls that I hadn't seen before. Fortunately, most appeared to be in pretty good condition.

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #40 – December 17, 2010, 05:50:36 pm

J.D.

That seems a very reasonable cost and gives greater flexibility than just chunks of wood or steel.

For those of you, like me, that have a welder and want to make your own I would suggest using Acme threaded rod instead of all thread. It and the nuts are available from Fastenal. It is what they use in screw jacks and is stronger therefore supporting more weight.

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #41 – December 17, 2010, 07:12:49 pm

Quote from: John Cooper – December 17, 2010, 05:50:36 pm

...
For those of you, like me, that have a welder and want to make your own I would suggest using Acme threaded rod instead of all thread. It and the nuts are available from Fastenal. It is what they use in screw jacks and is stronger therefore supporting more weight.

John,

Thanks for your affirmation that we got a reasonable tool at a reasonable price. I agree that the acme thread would be more suitable. I did not have sufficient knowledge to specify acme thread. I depended on the welding shop to procure appropriate materials.

I did some checking on line regarding strength of the all-thread. Based on what I found in a brief search, it appeared to be sufficient to support 10,000# in tension. I would expect the rod to support even more in compression over the small length that is exposed in my application. The large footprint of the "shoes" gives plenty of stability to keep the rod and pipe in a pure compressional mode with no shear load.

Thanks to Bill Willett for supplying pictures of his jacks. I supplied the pictures to the welding shop and they fabricated the devices.

(BTW, I expect our home is about 75 northwest of your location. We escaped from the Astrodome area to Bellville about five years ago.)

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #42 – December 18, 2010, 11:37:16 pm

J.D.,

I, too, hope to escape Houston but I have to get the house fixed up first. While I have seen the Acme thread on bottle jacks I did not know the name of it until I was flipping through a catalog. Catalogs can be great educators if you can avoid the "I wants".

To all,

In further research I discovered that Wholesale Tool has the Acme threaded rod for less than half of Fastenal's price. It looks like it is possible to order it over the 'net.

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #43 – March 06, 2011, 10:00:20 pm

Quote from: Neal Pillsbury – November 28, 2010, 12:58:40 pm

I personally feel that 2"X2"X1/4" Web steel is the minimum strength that is trustworthy and (because it is what I had handy) I personally use 2"X4"X1/4" Web (X 11.5").
Just a personal safety concern,
Neal

I have located some 2"x5" square steel tubing with 1/4" wall thickness. Unfortunately, it has approx. 1-1/2" to 2" angle iron welded to the 5" sides so instead of 2" wide, it appears to be around 5"-6" wide x 5".

Is there sufficient space in each of the 4 places, where these blocks are to be placed, to allow the angle iron pieces to be left on the tubing? If not, I am hesitant to get the piece because I do not want to cut the angle iron pieces off with a torch because I fear this might weaken the wall where the welds are located.

If the spaces at all 4 locations will accommodate the roughtly 5"-6"x5" blocks, I might be able to use these scrap pieces.

What do you think?

Thank you very much.

Morris

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #44 – March 07, 2011, 01:04:15 am

Morris:

Have you checked to see if there is enough clearance to center the scrap on the frame? If they can be centered, it should work. You didn't mention the height of the pieces. Are they close to 10-11"? That's about what works best.

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #45 – March 07, 2011, 07:13:51 pm

Quote from: Don Hay – March 07, 2011, 01:04:15 am

Morris:

Have you checked to see if there is enough clearance to center the scrap on the frame? If they can be centered, it should work. You didn't mention the height of the pieces. Are they close to 10-11"? That's about what works best.

I was planning to use 11" height. The piece I found is approx. 88"-90" long. So if the width works OK, 2 sets should be able to be cut out of this piece.

Unfortunately, our coach is in storage and is not readily accessible. So I cannot check the clearance space right now. I thought possibly someone here might know how much clearance is available.

Thank you.

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #46 – March 07, 2011, 08:50:00 pm

It seems to me that if your pieces are longer than 7" or so, you are installing them in the wrong location.

Regards,
Jon Twork

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #47 – March 07, 2011, 10:01:20 pm

Morris,

You won't have any clearance problems. Use the 11" length and make sure you center the 2" tubing over the frame members. The flanges will just be in space.

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #48 – March 07, 2011, 10:19:34 pm

Quoting Morris: "So I cannot check the clearance space right now. I thought possibly someone here might know how much clearance is available."

Morris:

I ran out to my Grandvilla and took a couple pics of driver's side, front and rear tires and will try to include them here. Brett is right: There is at least 5-6" from the frame to a partition, so you shouldn't have an issue. However, this is the case in a U-280 Grandvilla, so I'm not positive that it applies to the U-270, but Brett has the bus (Unicoach) style, so it should be the same.

Don

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #49 – March 07, 2011, 10:47:07 pm

Quote from: amos.harrison – March 07, 2011, 10:01:20 pm

Morris,

You won't have any clearance problems. Use the 11" length and make sure you center the 2" tubing over the frame members. The flanges will just be in space.

Thank you VERY much!! I greatly appreciate the information.

Quote from: Don Hay – March 07, 2011, 10:19:34 pm

Quoting Morris: "So I cannot check the clearance space right now. I thought possibly someone here might know how much clearance is available."

Morris:

I ran out to my Grandvilla and took a couple pics of driver's side, front and rear tires and will try to include them here. Brett is right: There is at least 5-6" from the frame to a partition, so you shouldn't have an issue. However, this is the case in a U-280 Grandvilla, so I'm not positive that it applies to the U-270, but Brett has the bus (Unicoach) style, so it should be the same.

Don

Thank you VERY much!! I greatly appreciate the information.

This helps me greatly!! Thank you.

Morris

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