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Topic: Working Safely around your Foretravel (Read 41076 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #40 –
J.D.

That seems a very reasonable cost and gives greater flexibility than just chunks of wood or steel. 

For those of you, like me, that have a welder and want to make your own I would suggest using Acme threaded rod instead of all thread.  It and the nuts are available from Fastenal.  It is what they use in screw jacks and is stronger therefore supporting more weight.

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #41 –
Quote from: John Cooper –
...
For those of you, like me, that have a welder and want to make your own I would suggest using Acme threaded rod instead of all thread.  It and the nuts are available from Fastenal.  It is what they use in screw jacks and is stronger therefore supporting more weight.

John,

Thanks for your affirmation that we got a reasonable tool at a reasonable price. I agree that the acme thread would be more suitable. I did not have sufficient knowledge to specify acme thread. I depended on the welding shop to procure appropriate materials.

I did some checking on line regarding strength of the all-thread. Based on what I found in a brief search, it appeared to be sufficient to support 10,000# in tension. I would expect the rod to support even more in compression over the small length that is exposed in my application. The large footprint of the "shoes" gives plenty of stability to keep the rod and pipe in a pure compressional mode with no shear load.

Thanks to Bill Willett for supplying pictures of his jacks. I supplied the pictures to the welding shop and they fabricated the devices.

(BTW, I expect our home is about 75 northwest of your location. We escaped from the Astrodome area to Bellville about five years ago.)

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #42 –
J.D.,

I, too, hope to escape Houston but I have to get the house fixed up first.  While I have seen the Acme thread on bottle jacks I did not know the name of it until I was flipping through a catalog.  Catalogs can be great educators if you can avoid the "I wants". 

To all,

In further research I discovered that Wholesale Tool has the Acme threaded rod for less than half of Fastenal's price.  It looks like it is possible to order it over the 'net. 

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #43 –
Quote from: Neal Pillsbury –
I personally feel that 2"X2"X1/4" Web steel is the minimum strength that is trustworthy and (because it is what I had handy) I personally use 2"X4"X1/4" Web (X 11.5").
Just a personal safety concern,
Neal

I have located some 2"x5" square steel tubing with 1/4" wall thickness.  Unfortunately, it has approx. 1-1/2" to 2" angle iron welded to the 5" sides so instead of 2" wide, it appears to be around 5"-6" wide x 5". 

Is there sufficient space in each of the 4 places, where these blocks are to be placed, to allow the angle iron pieces to be left on the tubing?  If not, I am hesitant to get the piece because I do not want to cut the angle iron pieces off with a torch because I fear this might weaken the wall where the welds are located.

If the spaces at all 4 locations will accommodate the roughtly 5"-6"x5" blocks, I might be able to use these scrap pieces. 

What do you think?

Thank you very much.

Morris

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #44 –
Morris:

Have you checked to see if there is enough clearance to center the scrap on the frame?  If they can be centered, it should work.  You didn't mention the height of the pieces.  Are they close to 10-11"?  That's about what works best. 

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #45 –
Quote from: Don Hay –
Morris:

Have you checked to see if there is enough clearance to center the scrap on the frame?  If they can be centered, it should work.  You didn't mention the height of the pieces.  Are they close to 10-11"?  That's about what works best.

I was planning to use 11" height.  The piece I found is approx. 88"-90" long.  So if the width works OK, 2 sets should be able to be cut out of this piece.

Unfortunately, our coach is in storage and is not readily accessible.  So I cannot check the clearance space right now.  I thought possibly someone here might know how much clearance is available.

Thank you.

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #46 –
It seems to me that if your pieces are longer than 7" or so, you are installing them in the wrong location.

Regards,
Jon Twork

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #47 –
Morris,

You won't have any clearance problems.  Use the 11" length and make sure you center the 2" tubing over the frame members.  The flanges will just be in space.

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #48 –
Quoting Morris: "So I cannot check the clearance space right now.  I thought possibly someone here might know how much clearance is available."

Morris:

I ran out to my Grandvilla and took a couple pics of driver's side, front and rear tires and will try to include them here.  Brett is right:  There is at least 5-6" from the frame to a partition, so you shouldn't have an issue.  However, this is the case in a U-280 Grandvilla, so I'm not positive that it applies to the U-270, but Brett has the bus (Unicoach) style, so it should be the same.


Don

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #49 –
Quote from: amos.harrison –
Morris,

You won't have any clearance problems.  Use the 11" length and make sure you center the 2" tubing over the frame members.  The flanges will just be in space. 

Thank you VERY much!!  I greatly appreciate the information.

Quote from: Don Hay –
Quoting Morris: "So I cannot check the clearance space right now.  I thought possibly someone here might know how much clearance is available."

Morris:

I ran out to my Grandvilla and took a couple pics of driver's side, front and rear tires and will try to include them here.  Brett is right:  There is at least 5-6" from the frame to a partition, so you shouldn't have an issue.  However, this is the case in a U-280 Grandvilla, so I'm not positive that it applies to the U-270, but Brett has the bus (Unicoach) style, so it should be the same.

Don

Thank you VERY much!! I  greatly appreciate the information.

This helps me greatly!!  Thank you.

Morris

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #50 –
Just to follow up, I got the 2"x5"x1/4" piece of steel tubing yesterday. It is 8 feet long...and VERY heavy!  The angle iron welded to each side is approx 2-1/4".  Hope to get the 4 pieces cut in the next week or so.

BTW, if anyone close to or coming through OKC want a similar piece, contact 405-593-0483.  I paid $15.00 for mine.  The scrap yard is located close to the Hefner Road exit off I-35 north of OKC.

Thank you to everyone for their input on this.

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #51 –
I suggest that those of you who are making parts to prevent your coach from dropping when working on it might want to consider the following.
If you will look on top of the lower suspension members, you will find four (4) bosses (large dimples like the top 1/5 of an egg) at each corner of the front suspension and also you will find four (4) more on the rear suspension for a total of eight (8) bosses  These bosses were put there to indicate where to put veritically placed round or square tubing approximately 7.5" high for the purpose of keeping the chassis elevated during servicing.  Those who use these bosses always either use four  for front work or four for rear work or eight when working under the whole coach. 
I suggest that there may be some VERY valid reasons to use the bosses provided by the factory.  One reason is, the ease of placing the vertical tubes.  Another is the total strength of the four tubes per axle concept. 
Placing supports in locations other than indicated by the factory bosses MAY not be in the best interest of your chassis, suspension or your pocketbook. 
That is my understanding of the situation and I thought I should pass it along.
Regards,

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #52 –
Before I make my comment I want to say that I find Jon to be one of the more erudite posters on the Forum.  He knows his stuff.  I don't doubt for one moment what he has said about supporting our coaches.  This topic is a perfect opportunity for someone at the factory to weigh in on. Confirmation of this important or even vital topic would go a long way to convince a lot of us to use those support points.

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #53 –
Quote from: George Stoltz –
This topic is a perfect opportunity for someone at the factory to weigh in on. Confirmation of this important or even vital topic would go a long way to convince a lot of us to use those support points.

Actually, regarding a topic such as this I would expect the only thing the factory should say is "only a qualified service technician should perform work on your coach".  Too many variables to say anything else.

Please respect that the factory is here post useful information when they can contribute and refrain from requesting they respond to a post or attempt to put them on the spot.

Michelle

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #54 –
Quote from: Jon Twork –
I suggest that those of you who are making parts to prevent your coach from dropping when working on it might want to consider the following.
If you will look on top of the lower suspension members, you will find four (4) bosses (large dimples like the top 1/5 of an egg) at each corner of the front suspension and also you will find four (4) more on the rear suspension for a total of eight ( 8) bosses  These bosses were put there to indicate where to put veritically placed round or square tubing approximately 7.5" high for the purpose of keeping the chassis elevated during servicing.  Those who use these bosses always either use four  for front work or four for rear work or eight when working under the whole coach. 
I suggest that there may be some VERY valid reasons to use the bosses provided by the factory.  One reason is, the ease of placing the vertical tubes.  Another is the total strength of the four tubes per axle concept. 
Placing supports in locations other than indicated by the factory bosses MAY not be in the best interest of your chassis, suspension or your pocketbook. 
That is my understanding of the situation and I thought I should pass it along.
Regards,
Can someone take some pictures of these bosses for each corner?  That would be helpful.

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #55 –
Quote from: Steve & Michelle –
Quote from: George Stoltz –
This topic is a perfect opportunity for someone at the factory to weigh in on. Confirmation of this important or even vital topic would go a long way to convince a lot of us to use those support points.

Actually, regarding a topic such as this I would expect the only thing the factory should say is "only a qualified service technician should perform work on your coach".  Too many variables to say anything else.

Please respect that the factory is here post useful information when they can contribute and refrain from requesting they respond to a post or attempt to put them on the spot.

Michelle

Yeah.  I kind of thought that after I hit the send button.  It dawned on me that if the factory encourages a particular practice then someone who gets hurt following their directions might want to bring suit against them. 

I stand corrected.

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #56 –
Peter,
                  I believe you can see them in Don Hay's post.

Quote
Quote from: Jon Twork –
I suggest that those of you who are making parts to prevent your coach from dropping when working on it might want to consider the following.
If you will look on top of the lower suspension members, you will find four (4) bosses (large dimples like the top 1/5 of an egg) at each corner of the front suspension and also you will find four (4) more on the rear suspension for a total of eight ( 8) bosses  These bosses were put there to indicate where to put veritically placed round or square tubing approximately 7.5" high for the purpose of keeping the chassis elevated during servicing.  Those who use these bosses always either use four  for front work or four for rear work or eight when working under the whole coach. 
I suggest that there may be some VERY valid reasons to use the bosses provided by the factory.  One reason is, the ease of placing the vertical tubes.  Another is the total strength of the four tubes per axle concept. 
Placing supports in locations other than indicated by the factory bosses MAY not be in the best interest of your chassis, suspension or your pocketbook. 
That is my understanding of the situation and I thought I should pass it along.
Regards,
Can someone take some pictures of these bosses for each corner?  That would be helpful.

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #57 –
Quote from Jon Twork:  "These bosses were put there to indicate where to put vertically placed round or square tubing approximately 7.5" high for the purpose of keeping the chassis elevated during servicing."

It's interesting that I never noticed those "bosses" before, despite using support tubing for 7 years now.  Just as interesting is the fact that my instructions for where to support the frame and how many support members to use were given to me by the (then) service manager at Foretravel.  He had one of the FT guys cut me 4, 2"X2"X11" square tubes, then showed me where to position them, never once mentioning the bosses that were about 6-10" away.  In fact, those 11" tubes wouldn't fit between the frame members at the bosses.  One would, as Jon mentioned, have to go with shorter (7.5") supports. 

Apparently there was an information "gap" (breakdown) between the factory and at least some people in Service.  Whether there still is a gap or that was just an isolated instance remains to be seen.

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #58 –
Quote from: Jon Twork –
........................These bosses were put there to indicate where to put veritically placed round or square tubing approximately 7.5" high for the purpose of keeping the chassis elevated during servicing.  Those who use these bosses always either use four  for front work or four for rear work or eight when working under the whole coach.................................. 
That is my understanding of the situation and I thought I should pass it along.
Regards,

Quote from: Don Hay –
.......................Just as interesting is the fact that my instructions for where to support the frame and how many support members to use were given to me by the (then) service manager at Foretravel.  He had one of the FT guys cut me 4, 2"X2"X11" square tubes, then showed me where to position them, never once mentioning the bosses that were about 6-10" away.  In fact, those 11" tubes wouldn't fit between the frame members at the bosses.  One would, as Jon mentioned, have to go with shorter (7.5") supports. 

Apparently there was an information "gap" (breakdown) between the factory and at least some people in Service.  Whether there still is a gap or that was just an isolated instance remains to be seen.
Jon,
I'm curious as to the source of your information regarding the design purpose of the bosses. 
I'm like Don in that a Foretravel sales and service center advised me on the length (11.5") and strength (2"X4"X1/4" web) of the (4) support blocks that I use.  I am using just about what that service facility was routinely using  (they were using (4), 11" long 2"X2"X1/4"web supports, so I have some overkill when compared to theirs). 
It has always been my understanding that the bosses have the following (2) design purposes:
    • Design would rather that the frame members have "point contact" versus "length contact" in extreme suspension travel situations.  That minimizes the chance of exceeding the design stress at the hinge point (e.g. - due to dirt build up on the frame rail).
       
    • Design also wants to fine tune the end point of "aired-down" suspension travel.  Without the bosses, the tire will deform the floor beyond acceptable margins.  In fact, service centers have "shimmed" coaches by building the bosses slightly higher to counteract too much travel when completely "aired down".  Most Unicoaches have tire contact at all four corners when the suspension is fully aired down.  But it is my understanding that the bosses prevent permanently deforming the floor, particularly if aired down when significantly off level and the humidity is high or the floor otherwise contains a high moisture content.
Is it possible that someone is just confusing the bosses as a handy reference point over which (hollow) 7.5" safety blocks can be reliably placed to safely support the coach?
FWIW,
Neal

Re: Working Safely around your Foretravel

Reply #59 –
All I care to say about the situation is, that I was in Nacogdoches when I became enlightened on the subject. The method that I have used has also worked well for me for over six years. It is easy and effective. I like things like that. Not much else to share on the subject, I guess.

Regards,
Jon Twork