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Topic: My bulkhead experience (Read 7778 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: My bulkhead experience

Reply #20 –
I have yet to see where on my 1999 40ft no tag, no slide U320 WHERE the bulkhead bolts are.
 
I'd appreciate it if someone cold mark up a side view of a Foretravel with the fore/aft locations of the bulkhead
___

best, paul
"Thriving not surviving" <(*¿*)>
Paul Schaye (at 2008 NYC Marathon) "Life is what happens when you are doing other things!" "If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much room!"
See our blog at LazyDazers.com
 
Quote
Seems as though we are beating a dead horse trying to figure out why the bolts break.  The real

Re: My bulkhead experience

Reply #21 –
Quote from: Paul Smith –
I have yet to see where on my 1999 40ft no tag, no slide U320 WHERE the bulkhead bolts are.
 

Paul,

Look at the underside of your coach, a little aft of the front axle and fore of the rear one.  There are 2 seams running across the width of the coach with lots of bolts (the Rollocks) going through them.  Those are the bulkhead seams and bolts.  You don't need to get under your coach (but block the frame if you do), just crouch down next to it.

The Whitepaper issued by the factory is here

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which shows a photo.

Michelle

Re: My bulkhead experience

Reply #22 –
Do not try to drill out a grade 8 Rolok bolt installed in mild steel.

DO drill an access hole through the FG bottom just in from the 1 1/2" beam "inboard" of the broken bolt.

Remove the foam insulation-- easily done with a screwdriver.

Double nut the Rolok and continue it's journey toward the center of the coach.

The process of removing the broken Rolok is much aided by applying penetrating oil for a day or so before trying to back out the Rolok.  I used 50/50 ATF/acetone.

Then overdrill the hole and install a grade 8 3/8" bolt per my earlier posts.

Brett Wolfe

Re: My bulkhead experience

Reply #23 –
Thanks Michael.
 
Chad
'98 U320  -  Wickenburg, AZ

Re: My bulkhead experience

Reply #24 –
Hi Paul,
  The bulkheads are at each end of the fiberglass belly cover, which runs from the front bulkhead seam, to the rear bulkhead seam. So they are where the fiberglass under cover begins, and ends. I hope this helps.

Re: My bulkhead experience

Reply #25 –
Paul:

Here's the link to my blulkhead issues.  That should give you a good feel for the exactly what to look for just ahead of the rear wheels.  If I remember right, I took a quick look under your coach when you parked in front of the house when on your way home.  As I recall, I didn't see the kind of failure that I had when these pictures were taken.

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Hope all is well buddy.

Re: My bulkhead experience

Reply #26 –
Yo, Russel!  Thanks!
 
After we left you last April we we went to Nac where, among other things, MOT found some minor repairs needed on the bulkheads.
 
But, being an unreconstituted structural steel draftsman '52 - '62 in another life in Akron, Ohio, I don't hold truck with bolted connections that are not thru bolts.  I might have to grit my teeth and accept something as tiny as 3/8 inch diameter, but I think I see bulkhead thru bolts in my future.
 
Being in the San Francisco Bay Area currently, I'm sorry time and commitments do not allow next week's route to El Centro, CA to go thru Baton Rouge...  Baton Rouge: Next year for sure!

best, paul
 
PS> Please give my warm regards to your lovely bride....
___
 
"Thriving not surviving" <(*¿*)>
Paul Schaye (at 2008 NYC Marathon) "Life is what happens when you are doing other things!" "If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much room!"
See our blog at LazyDazers.com
 
Quote
Here's the link to my blulkhead issues.  That should give you a good feel for the exactly what to look for just ahead of the rear wheels.  If I remember right, I took a quick look under your coach when you parked in front of the house when on your way home.  As I recall, I didn't see the kind of failure that I had when these pictures were taken.

Re: My bulkhead experience

Reply #27 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –
Double nut the Rolok and continue it's journey toward the center of the coach.
Brett Wolfe
I think the light just went on in my brain.  Sounds as though the original Rolok bolts are long enough to penetrate 2 sides of the frame tubing.  Is that correct?  I have not extracted one and makes a lot more sense if it does do that.  I thought they were only long enough to go through one side of the frame tube.

The other unanswered question, but maybe I should be patient, can the Rolok bolts be reused if it is in a place where a frame member prevents a thru-bolt? (Assuming the metal tube and bolt are not rusted)

Re: My bulkhead experience

Reply #28 –
Correct.  The Roloks are long enough that they stick THROUGH the angle and 1 1/2" box beam and the threads are sufficiently long for one to double nut and run the remains of the broken bolt toward the center of the coach. Penetrating oil on both ends of broken bolts made for 100% removal on any I attempted to remove.

And, I have not considered reusing the Rolok-style bolt.  If you are under there anyway with drill and have a supply of the 1 3/8" waterproof plugs to reseal the bottom FG part, I would absolutely through bolt replacements.  It is just not that much additional work.

Brett Wolfe

Re: My bulkhead experience

Reply #29 –
What I learned today, installing new bolts - I added two new ones so far.  The broken rolox's were too rusted to get them double nutted so I ended up just drilling new holes.  In the future I won't even bother trying to get the broken ones out.  But, I think it will be worth my while to try to back out some of the un-broken ones.  If I can get them out, it's a piece of cake to then enlarge the hole and put in the bolts per Brett's instructions.

Re: My bulkhead experience

Reply #30 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –

The only item I am aware of that is unique to Foretravel (vs other quality coaches of the same age) is to check the front and rear bulkheads. See Message #38614.

A dumb question, what is being referenced as the front and rear bulkheads? In the cabin, the most forward "wall" or bulkhead is the one for the head.  In the underneath storage areas, I presume it would be the most forward "wall" or bulkhead.

Similar for the rear.  In the cabin, the most rear "wall" or bulkhead is the one between the bedroom and the bathroom.  Similarly for the one in the underneath storage.

So to ensure I understand correctly and inspect the correct ones, which ones being referenced as the front and rear bulkheads?

Quote from: wolfe10 –
BTW, where is the coach-- one of us may be familiar with it.
Brett Wolfe

It is in the Oklahoma City, OK area.

Re: My bulkhead experience

Reply #31 –
Quote from: Jerry Whiteaker –
Torqued the bulkhead bolts today,  19 front, 17 rear.  Right 2 in front were broken and 2 in the rear on the right side but not together.  All broken a long time ago.  There was also one in the front not broken, but threads in the frame stripped.  Had an extra bolt nearby.  Will do the fix when I can.

Is the correct torque for the front bulkhead bolts 19 inch-pounds and the correct torque for the rear bulkhead bolts 17 inch-pounds? I want to ensure I am understanding it correctly.

Thank you very much.

Re: My bulkhead experience

Reply #32 –
Quote from: George Stoltz –
Basketball Fan,
 
I'd like to suggest that you read the very last post in that topic first.  Then begin reading the others.  The last post tells you where the bulkheads are located.
 
And ---- are we helping you with all of our input?

I have not been able to do this inspection yet, but plan to do it.  I think I now understand where to look.  I do not recall seeing the gap as is shown in the third picture.  But I wasn't looking for these issues either.

From the earlier message string, it appears the correct torque for the front bolts is 19 (inch-pounds?) and for the rear bolts is 17 (inch-pounds?).  I want to confirm it is inch-pounds.

Yes, the input is helping very much.  I wish I could devote much more time checking these things out than I have been able to do so far.  But everyone's comments are helping very much.  Plus this indicates this forum has a great wealth of knowledge concerning these MHs and people are willing and eager to help anyone out if they can.  That is a GREAT benefit.  I belong to a similar group for my motorcycle and they have been invaluable to me for normal maintenance guidance as well as installation of upgrades to my bike.  I anticipate the people here on this forum are very similar.

The current owner had a RV dealer/shop check out the home portion this fall.  It appears everything checked out fine except that they had apparently not winterized it properly last fall and had to replace the plumbing on it due to freeze damage. (Her husband was very ill and passed away a few months ago.)

While I realize this inspection probably missed some things, it also indicates that at least portions of it were checked out.  We do plan to have the drive train checked out by a repair shop this week (hopefully).

Everything we have seen so far indicates this coach has been very well maintained over the years.  I was actually surprised at how clean the engine compartment is.  I expected to see oily surfaces and I did not see any oily surfaces anywhere in the engine compartment.

Re: My bulkhead experience

Reply #33 –
ncaabbfan
Your Question, "Is the correct torque for the front bulkhead bolts 19 inch-pounds and the correct torque for the rear bulkhead bolts 17 inch-pounds?"
No. The correct  Rolok Bolt check torque value is 250 INCH-POUNDS.  See Brett's excellent summary at Bulkhead Repair-- A Comprehensive Look 
19 and 17 are the number of bolts that Jerry had across the full length of his front and rear bulkhead, 3 inch angle irons.
Keep asking questions where you have any doubt.
Neal

Re: My bulkhead experience

Reply #34 –
Quote from: Neal Pillsbury –
ncaabbfan
Your Question, "Is the correct torque for the front bulkhead bolts 19 inch-pounds and the correct torque for the rear bulkhead bolts 17 inch-pounds?"
No. The correct  Rolok Bolt check torque value is 250 INCH-POUNDS.  See Brett's excellent summary at Bulkhead Repair-- A Comprehensive Look 
19 and 17 are the number of bolts that Jerry had across the full length of his front and rear bulkhead, 3 inch angle irons.
Keep asking questions where you have any doubt.
Neal

Thank you very much!  I thought the 17 and 19 could not be inch-pounds. But I wanted to make sure I understood the correct torque.  So all of these bolts (front and rear) should be 250 inch-pounds.

Re: My bulkhead experience

Reply #35 –
Yes. 250 inch-lbs.

What you will likely find is that they either break off with little more than finger torque (i.e. are broken) or hold good.

I have run into very few that were loose, but would torque up.

Brett Wolfe

Re: My bulkhead experience

Reply #36 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –
Yes. 250 inch-lbs.

What you will likely find is that they either break off with little more than finger torque (i.e. are broken) or hold good.

I have run into very few that were loose, but would torque up.

Brett Wolfe

I did a visual check today of the two bulkheads on the MH we are strongly considering purchasing.  I laid down on on each side of the MH and visually checked and sighted down each bulkhead.  I did not see any signs of rust nor any distortion or swelling of either bulkhead.  It appears that all the bolts are in place.

I did not do a torque check of the bolts.

Since I did not see any signs of rust and presuming the bolts check out ok with the torque check, what is recommended be  done to protect the bolts and joints in the future to prevent any rust damage or distortion?

Thank you very much.

Morris

Re: My bulkhead experience

Reply #37 –
Morris,

If no distortion and no rust, the worse case is that you will have a few broken bolts to replace.  No big deal.

When that is done, I would recommend using a wire brush on a drill to clean the area from just onto the white fiberglass "belly" around to and including the vertical part of the angle beam where you see the bolts (i.e. to the top of the vertical beam where you see the bolt heads).

Then mask off the top half of the heads of the bolts (so you could still get a socket/wrench on the bolt) and mask off the FG floor (leave 1/2" or so of floor exposed). Spray with automotive undercoating.  One can will easily do both front and back beam areas.

I suspect a reasonable amount of the damage is being done by water migrating in along the threads of the bolts (the angle beam is drilled larger than the bolt threads so that the bolt will torque to the box beam inboard of the angle beam) every time a coach is driven in rain. 

Brett

Re: My bulkhead experience

Reply #38 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –
Yes. 250 inch-lbs.

What you will likely find is that they either break off with little more than finger torque (i.e. are broken) or hold good.

I have run into very few that were loose, but would torque up.

Brett Wolfe

I believe 250 inch-pounds equates to 20.83 foot-pounds (250/12= 20.833333).  Have I understood it correctly? I hope I can check the torque of the bolts tomorrow...if the weather is OK.  Thank you very much.

Re: My bulkhead experience

Reply #39 –
Quote from: Jerry Whiteaker –
Seems as though we are beating a dead horse trying to figure out why the bolts break.
Basically it is caused by the same reason that 10 year old firetrucks, stored inside, with extremely low mileage, rust out.  Water from washing get into places it would not normally get into, and then it just sets there until it evaporates and the rust process has started.  And I believe there have been some fixes offered here on the forum to prevent that from happening.