Dip stick tube

Topic: Dip stick tube (Read 3118 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #25 – December 17, 2010, 05:33:58 pm

Steve ; I am not A wizzard at anything . I had A chit chat with A diesel shop foreman about your dip stick . His quote [ It has got to be vibration related issue .] He went on to say that engine has A high frequency vibration ,much like other diesels , but it is A bit different . His fix reply was support , support , support the new tube . I don't know how this is done , but one of this gang will have the answer . Good luck ,,, Brad Metzger

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #26 – December 17, 2010, 05:48:45 pm

There is almost 3ft of tube between the bracket that holds the open end of the tube, and where the tube seats in the block, and it's curved so that as the engine oscillates side to side, it's torgueing the tube at a 90 deg. angle against where it enters the block. I guess after 14 years of that, metal fatigue should be expected. I suppose others who have had theirs fail have been luckier in that their tubes failed slightly above the collar where it seats into the block. Mine snapped off below, so there's nothing sticking up out of the block to grab. A tap nor an easy-out would budge it. Brett's method may have done it if the bolt head could catch on the very thin lip of the tube AND not just deform the edge of the tube instaed of pushing it out. Looking at the new tube, that bottom portion below the collar is knurled, so I have no doubt it is going to take some serious force to extricate it. Well, it's only money, right?

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #27 – December 17, 2010, 10:42:18 pm

To remove tubing stub,use starting tap that will cut threads without cutting through to o.d. of tubing. Load tap with grease before using. This will keep cuttings out of oil pan.When tubing has been threaded,make from all thread rod ,stud 6" longer then depth of thread .Thread stud into hole ,use a socket wrench over stud as spacer,put washer and nut on stud and turn nut to remove tubing stub. I have found this will work most every time. Joe

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #28 – December 26, 2010, 09:28:18 am

Well, no one ever said it was going to be cheap to own one of these things. Cummins of Tampa just presented me with the bill for removing the broken dipstick tube and replacing with new one, and an oil and filter change (had to drop pan and dump oil anyway). $918.00. Not saying it doesn't hurt, but my wife and I still work. These kinds of things will be tough when we're retired on a fixed income. Guess it just goes with the territory.

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #29 – December 26, 2010, 09:33:28 am

Quote from: Steve & Ginny Hill – December 26, 2010, 09:28:18 am

Well, no one ever said it was going to be cheap to own one of these things. Cummins of Tampa just presented me with the bill for removing the broken dipstick tube and replacing with new one, and an oil and filter change (had to drop pan and dump oil anyway). $918.00. Not saying it doesn't hurt, but my wife and I still work. These kinds of things will be tough when we're retired on a fixed income. Guess it just goes with the territory.

How many hours of labor did it take to replace the dip stick & did you see how they did it?

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #30 – December 26, 2010, 09:37:31 am

So now the question is, did they cure the problem, or is it just going to happen again? It seems to be pretty common. Mine was replaced by the PO after 10 years, but it probably had higher than "normal" miles on it at that time.

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #31 – December 26, 2010, 01:36:34 pm

Barry,
They had to remove the brace under the engine, remove the oil pan, drive out the old dipstick, replace oil pan and oil pick-up tube gaskets, replace oil pan, replace brace, and replace dipstick. Then replace oil and filter. At $110/hr, it adds up quickly.

Gayland,
The basic problem of the dipstick tube not being supported well enough still exists, but I intend to see about fabricating some sort of additional support bracket at about the mid-point of the bend.

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #32 – December 26, 2010, 03:30:46 pm

Does anyone know if this breakage is 1) a Cummins issue in any brand of Class A or 2) just a Foretravel-only problem? Apparently it isn't engine-specific, as Gary and I (with mechanical C8.3's) and others with M-11's have had the problem also. Has anyone heard of SOB's having broken dipstick tubes? Just curious.

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #33 – December 26, 2010, 05:44:49 pm

Don,
There was a Fleetwood Discovery at Cummins in Tampa who'd had the exact same problem. The dipstick set-up IS a Cummins design, not Foretravel's.

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #34 – December 26, 2010, 07:43:45 pm

Quote from: Steve & Ginny Hill – December 26, 2010, 09:28:18 am

Well, no one ever said it was going to be cheap to own one of these things. Cummins of Tampa just presented me with the bill for removing the broken dipstick tube and replacing with new one, and an oil and filter change (had to drop pan and dump oil anyway). $918.00. Not saying it doesn't hurt, but my wife and I still work. These kinds of things will be tough when we're retired on a fixed income. Guess it just goes with the territory.

Steve, I feel your pain. We ARE on a fixed income. Big expenses are tough to swallow. But you gave it your best shot.

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #35 – January 02, 2011, 06:17:58 pm

when I picked it up last tues, to go to my mother's funeral on the east coast of Florida, I found out they also had to drain and replace the coolant because of a hose routed underneath for the retarder accumulator heat exchanger. $670 of the $913 total was labor. After the funeral, we came back to Tampa, and stayed out at Rally Park for the New Years rally. There were 3 Foretravels there, Dusty and Joyce from the keys, Paul and Pixie from Ft. Myers, and us. As we were leaving, I saw a Foretravel coming in with Alabama Crimson Tide logos all over it.

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #36 – January 09, 2011, 12:02:34 am

We just made new braces for our dip stick to help prevent the breakage that several had experienced.
I bent metal and then fastened the metal brace to unused threaded bolt holes on the side of our Cummins C-8.3 engine.
Then using rubber covered clamps fastened the dip stick in two places to my new metal braces.

phots are taken from the ground looking up.

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #37 – January 09, 2011, 08:24:34 am

Nice job Barry.

Brett

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #38 – January 09, 2011, 09:10:34 am

I can see I've got some fabrication to do.

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #39 – January 09, 2011, 11:45:45 am

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – January 09, 2011, 12:02:34 am

We just made new braces for our dip stick to help prevent the breakage that several had experienced.
I bent metal and then fastened the metal brace to unused threaded bolt holes on the side of our Cummins C-8.3 engine.
Then using rubber covered clamps fastened the dip stick in two places to my new metal braces.

Very nice! Thanks for sharing the photos. I suspect this will be a very popular project.

Michelle

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #40 – January 10, 2011, 08:04:43 pm

Well dang, I was ready to do Barry's mod, but I'm missing the threaded bolt hole for the long brace. The flat boss is there on the block, sure looks like a threaded hole could be there, and a mud dauber didn't fill it. I have the 3 holes near the end of the tube. I won't be drilling and tapping any holes in the block, too risky.

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #41 – January 11, 2011, 08:05:35 am

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – January 09, 2011, 12:02:34 am

We just made new braces for our dip stick to help prevent the breakage that several had experienced.
I bent metal and then fastened the metal brace to unused threaded bolt holes on the side of our Cummins C-8.3 engine.
Then using rubber covered clamps fastened the dip stick in two places to my new metal braces.

photos are taken from the ground looking up.

Barry,
From my experience I find that this type of support bracket must be of a substantial thickness such as the cable support bracket shown in the background and also be steel. It looks like the cable support bracket shown is 3/16" or 1/4" thick. Just an observation and maybe the overall configuration requires the lighter weight bracket.

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #42 – January 11, 2011, 07:22:36 pm

Quote from: Rick – January 11, 2011, 08:05:35 am

Barry,
From my experience I find that this type of support bracket must be of a substantial thickness such as the cable support bracket shown in the background and also be steel. It looks like the cable support bracket shown is 3/16" or 1/4" thick. Just an observation and maybe the overall configuration requires the lighter weight bracket.

Rick,
I originally figured the dip stick bracket has to be rigid & sturdy and could be a welded piece of steel with a triangle brace. And the part holding the dip stick to the new brace should be a "U" bolt or the "U" from a cable clamp.
This way the dip stick would be firmly held and all movement would not be transferred to the bottom where it goes into the engine block.

I decided on my less strong approach because I was concerned that if a rigid brace was not exactly correctly angled, it would put new pressure on the dip stick and maybe cause it to break.
So I decided on a quick less rigid approach for now, so we could have something where there was nothing.
The rubber covered stainless clamps are pretty good, but only held down at a single point so they also could move a little.

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #43 – January 12, 2011, 10:49:37 am

I think I will go ahead with just a lower brace as Barry described although I don't have a threaded hole for the upper longer brace. Anything should help reduce the concentration of force where the tube enters the engine block and the tendency to fatigue crack at that point. I also thought about adding some kneadable epoxy, or other type of epoxy around the tube where it enters the block as a way to strengthen the tube. The area would have to be thoroughly cleaned and paint removed in order to get a good bond. Doubt if that part of the engine would be hot enough to harm the epoxy. It might even be possible to repair a broken dip stick tube using epoxy and a metal bracket fastened to the unused threaded holes. I repaired my broken plastic turn signal arm using kneadable epoxy, a much simpler fix. Just thinking out loud.

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #44 – January 12, 2011, 11:03:05 am

Jerry,
I agree with you 200% that the place to add the maximum bracing is at the place where the tube breaks...at the entry to the engine block. The additional bracing Barry added is icing on the cake.

Well done, Barry...

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #45 – January 12, 2011, 12:10:24 pm

Quote from: Jerry Whiteaker – January 12, 2011, 10:49:37 am

I also thought about adding some kneadable epoxy, or other type of epoxy around the tube where it enters the block as a way to strengthen the tube.

I hope this is a viable option. It would be a quick fix for those of us who don't have access to metal forming equipment and skills.

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #46 – January 12, 2011, 02:16:37 pm

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – January 11, 2011, 07:22:36 pm

Quote from: Rick – January 11, 2011, 08:05:35 am
Barry,
From my experience I find that this type of support bracket must be of a substantial thickness such as the cable support bracket shown in the background and also be steel. It looks like the cable support bracket shown is 3/16" or 1/4" thick. Just an observation and maybe the overall configuration requires the lighter weight bracket.
Rick,
I originally figured the dip stick bracket has to be rigid & sturdy and could be a welded piece of steel with a triangle brace. And the part holding the dip stick to the new brace should be a "U" bolt or the "U" from a cable clamp.
This way the dip stick would be firmly held and all movement would not be transferred to the bottom where it goes into the engine block.

I decided on my less strong approach because I was concerned that if a rigid brace was not exactly correctly angled, it would put new pressure on the dip stick and maybe cause it to break.
So I decided on a quick less rigid approach for now, so we could have something where there was nothing.
The rubber covered stainless clamps are pretty good, but only held down at a single point so they also could move a little.

Barry,
I know how difficult it is to decide what to do as the different design options go around inside one's head. As I mentioned, just an observation and trying to help with a permanent solution. While I'm at it here is another option. Take a tubing cutter and cut the dipstick tube just outside the block entry point, subtract a quarter inch and couple the dipstick together with a piece of hose to absorb the vibration. Too bad Cummings does not address this issue as it appears to be a common problem.
Good luck,

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #47 – January 12, 2011, 03:02:08 pm

Adding a single bracket at the bottom of the tube will only increase the point at witch the tube will break,the harmonic's are coming from the large unsupported bend in the tube, it needs to be supported at or as close to the bend to stop the harmonics. JMO
Rick's suggestion of cutting the tube and placing a piece of rubber tubing in the 2 section's is a viable option.

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #48 – January 12, 2011, 04:00:48 pm

Think of an imaginary line between where the tube enters the block, and where the current single bracket is at the back of the engine. Then find the point of greatest distance between that line, and the dipstick tube, and that would be where I would place the additional brace. IMHO.

Re: Dip stick tube

Reply #49 – January 12, 2011, 08:57:30 pm

If there is room: (1) piece threaded rod long enough to fit all the way down past the end of the dipstick tube and sticking out about 6". Add (2) nuts just small enough to go into the tube (the size will determine the threaded rod size). Lock the nuts together or weld them to the end of the threaded rod. On the other end slide a piece of heavy wall steel pipeand a couple of heavy washers. Lock nut them on but leave enough room so you have a "slide" hammer.

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