towing questions

Topic: towing questions (Read 2428 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: towing questions

Reply #25 – May 10, 2011, 05:43:13 pm

George and Kent,

Thanks for the tip on brakes. Had never even thought about it with the RAV so light but after reading your posts, I went to Roadmaster Inc. - Tow Bars, Braking Systems & RV Accessories (great home page photo) and looked up the requirement for each state. Looks like I need to put brakes on! I went to George's M&G site and checked it out. Kent, what brand did you end up with? Thanks again G & K for the tips.

Pierce & Gaylie
'93 U300/36

Re: towing questions

Reply #26 – May 10, 2011, 06:11:53 pm

Not for the faint of heart, but you can back up by starting the tow, put it in reverse and pull the FT ;o)

best, paul

Quote

I backed up a couple of feet one time to get into a tight pump lane at Flying J. I would recommend against backing up at all, but I did it once in a pinch.

Re: towing questions

Reply #27 – May 10, 2011, 06:18:32 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – May 10, 2011, 05:43:13 pm

George and Kent,

Thanks for the tip on brakes. Had never even thought about it with the RAV so light but after reading your posts, I went to Roadmaster Inc. - Tow Bars, Braking Systems & RV Accessories (great home page photo) and looked up the requirement for each state. Looks like I need to put brakes on! I went to George's M&G site and checked it out. Kent, what brand did you end up with? Thanks again G & K for the tips.

Pierce & Gaylie
'93 U300/36

Pierce, M-G was my brand also. It appeared to be the most basic and purely mechanical system that I could find. There is nothing to move around. It stays under the hood and hooking up is one air line and a cable. It was also about $400 less expensive than the Air Force One.

I had it installed by the manufacturer when I was in Texas this spring. They are near the Dallas area. It took less than 2 hours to install and the cost was about $800. They attend several of the major RV Rallies and do installations at the rallies. I think this is the same system that Barry has and several other of the "smart guys" from the forum have on their toweds.

Quote from: Paul Smith – May 10, 2011, 06:11:53 pm

Not for the faint of heart, but you can back up by starting the tow, put it in reverse and pull the FT ;o)

best, paul
"Thriving not surviving" <(¿)>

/

I have backed up the U225 plus towed as far a 50 ft in pretty much a straight line without unhooking. Its tedious but it can be done by playing close attention to the back camera. I like that better than pulling the coach with my Subaru.

Re: towing questions

Reply #28 – May 10, 2011, 07:07:19 pm

Kent,

I checked ebay, did a lot of quick reading and bought a Add a Brake by Roadmaster. Legal in all states for supplemental braking systems. It just came up for one fifth the Camping World price. Lucky day. You guys saved me $$$.

Paid for my membership for a year in the forum. What can I say?

Thanks again,

Pierce and Gaylie
'93 U300/36

Re: towing questions

Reply #29 – May 10, 2011, 07:28:09 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – May 10, 2011, 07:07:19 pm

Kent,

I checked ebay, did a lot of quick reading and bought a Add a Brake by Roadmaster. Legal in all states for supplemental braking systems. It just came up for one fifth the Camping World price. Lucky day. You guys saved me $$$.

Paid for my membership for a year in the forum. What can I say?

Thanks again,

Pierce and Gaylie
'93 U300/36

Let us know how it works out when you get it. I always thought an air system would offer better proportional braking. I'm curious if an electrical system will help with smooth stops like the air has done for me.

Re: towing questions

Reply #30 – May 10, 2011, 07:42:50 pm

Luckily, no...
Romeo (female Moluccan Cockatoo) sez 'We love you', and 'Where were you?', and about 25 more words.
Sugar (mini Macaw) knows about 15. He's dumb as a brick.

Re: towing questions

Reply #31 – May 10, 2011, 10:21:48 pm

Local dealer had a US map showing each state's requirements for supplemental braking. North Dakota is the only one that has no requirement, many are anything over 1500 lbs. Guess I could confine my trips to town and back, or bit that bullet too and get a braking system. I'm passing on the Honda, no air. I'm to old to have to rough it that much. So now I have a bare slate. The local RV dealer quoted $1800 ball park (no braking) to set up what ever i get, don't know exactly what model that was, but is it a reasonable amount for a reasonable setup?

Re: towing questions

Reply #32 – May 10, 2011, 10:39:59 pm

Some friends of ours have a Honda Cube with stick shift which they tow behind there big SOB coach. Seems like a nice, cheap car with lots of room. Our Honda CRV is OK, but the seats are very uncomfortable, at least for we.

Re: towing questions

Reply #33 – May 10, 2011, 10:44:46 pm

Quote from: George Hatfield – May 10, 2011, 10:39:59 pm

Some friends of ours have a Honda Cube with stick shift

Methinks you mean a Nissan Cube...

-M (shopping for the future towed)

Re: towing questions

Reply #34 – May 10, 2011, 10:51:41 pm

As much as we like our Honda CR-V, Sandy hates the seats. For me they are not too bad, but they could be better.

Re: towing questions

Reply #35 – May 10, 2011, 11:18:18 pm

We love our 2003 Jeep Wrangler toad, but it is not for the faint of heart. If you've ever heard the term "rides like a Jeep", you will know how it originated as soon as you ride in one. Not particularly good on gas, either, but it has a certain charm. And, when the weather's nice, and the top is down, it's just a hoot to drive.

Re: towing questions

Reply #36 – May 10, 2011, 11:30:34 pm

Gayland,

Just had system installed at MOT. $1,500.00-1,800.00 is what everything should cost. This is for the hitch, not the braking system. Air Force One was $1,900.00

Re: towing questions

Reply #37 – May 10, 2011, 11:35:32 pm

Supplemental brakes are a touchy subject. In fact many of the supposed charts are talking about a trailer. In VA it has a trailer at 1500 but for motorhomes it has a second section and it says you have to be able to stop in 40 feet from 20 mph. It is performance based. I will not argue the physic of it. More brakes means more stopping but how much more is the question. I know I can pick up the jeep and put it in my coach and still have room left. I have about 7K carrying capacity. I have also seen a number of people burn up their tows with issues with the brakes. I was at MOT when a guy came back. He had the air force one installed and by the time he got from Dallas to Nac. his rotors and brakes were fried and it all had to be replaced. The good thing is that they sent a guy out to look at it and to check it out. It happened again after they got it fixed and then they finally got it figured out.

I have another friend whose car caught on fire on the way to a Rally. It was serious. We have an issue with our coaches and these systems. They require brake lights to come on before they work. Well, if you used your retarder your brake lights come on and you will be trying to stop your coach with you towed car.

Also many states have a performance requirement for towed vehicles. The reason is not only for motorhomes but it is for the tow truck. They have to tow a vehicle and they do not have to put on supplemental brakes. It is the reason they make a difference between a trailer and a tow that has an engine and can operate on its own power.

Folks will differ and I know if I tow my jeep with my Born Free then I will use a brake system. I have put on almost 300K miles on my FT and almost all of them are with the jeep behind me. I have decided not to use a brake do to the issues that can come up and I have not had an issue stopping yet. In fact just monday I had to stand on the brakes and I stopped well before the truck next to me and he was smoking his trailer wheels. We came around a blind curve and they were stopped in front of us putting out the wires to count the traffic. Stupid place to do it....

Re: towing questions

Reply #38 – May 11, 2011, 12:40:31 am

FWIW. We have the Air Force One supplemental brake activation system. We were one of the first installs of AF1 done by MOT in late 2008. They have worked flawlessly.

Re: towing questions

Reply #39 – May 11, 2011, 09:02:34 am

In our U295/Jeep we have a tow brake system called VIP Tow Brake from Tow Brake International. It appears to be activated by an inertial switch in the coach. The brake only activates on a hard stop or a breakaway. The sensitivity is adjustable. The brake lights on the coach trigger the brake lights on the Jeep, but are not hooked to the Tow Brake system.

The brake pedal in the Jeep is operated by a shaft and bracket driven by an electric motor. The action is binary, it is either on or off. The maximum pressure on the brake pedal is adjustable. The brake pedal actuator is attached with a couple of steel pins. There is one connector inside the car to attach the actuator. Our system has two cables between the coach and Jeep, one for the brakes, and another to operate lights.

The system works well with the coach's braking and retarder system. It normally provides no braking action from the Jeep, but will apply the brakes in case of a hard stop or breakaway.

Re: towing questions

Reply #40 – May 11, 2011, 10:09:59 am

Here is one of the better toad brake law lists that I have seen: Toad Brake Requirements. One of the few that gives links to the actual state laws.

As to brake systems, I use one of the supplemental brake systems with a mechanical design. No electronics to worry about. Operates by aircraft cable activated by a shock absorber type setup attached to receiver, a KIS type operation. It is called ReadyBrake. ReadyBrake Supplemental Brake System for Towed Vehicles - NSA RV Products, Night Shift Auto RV Products, Inc., Iola, Kansas 66749.

Re: towing questions

Reply #41 – May 11, 2011, 10:33:39 am

Since I've towed 4 different vehicles and knew at the outset that I would have multiple vehicles, I bought a Brake Buddy for easy portability.

HOWEVER, I do not operate it as it is designed in order to prevent any "overbraking" issue as others have described. After I plug it in, energize the compressor, test and set it as instructed, then I UNPLUG the 12 volt power cord. I have found that over a day, that if not energized, it does not lose the air pressure at all...thus leaving me with one good braking event available (whether inertial or breakaway). With no power to recharge the compressor, I have no possibility of a lengthy, accidental application of the brakes. If I did have to apply a panic stop (I had had one of those in Fresno over the last 11 years), then I could pull over later and recharge the compressor by plugging it back in. (If you have to hit the FT's brakes hard enough to activate the Brake Buddy, you generally have had a memorable event!)

YMMV, but that has worked for me and the legal and liability issue is addressed as well as allaying the fear of an unwanted application that could cause a fire.

Re: towing questions

Reply #42 – May 11, 2011, 03:05:06 pm

I have M&G braking system which works off the air I assume simular to air Force One. I have always been able to stop . Is it working?? I hope so. Dan Stansel

Re: towing questions

Reply #43 – May 11, 2011, 03:23:10 pm

Are the tow brake laws enforced according to your home state laws and are treated much like the DL or CHL, is this a reciprocity situation? thanks jc

Re: towing questions

Reply #44 – May 11, 2011, 03:50:27 pm

Quote from: hotonthetrail – May 11, 2011, 03:23:10 pm

Are the tow brake laws enforced according to your home state laws and are treated much like the DL or CHL, is this a reciprocity situation? thanks jc

Law enforcement likely has much better things to do than check your toad for tow brakes...until you have an accident. But it is an equipment issue, not a driver issue, so just like some states will allow you to pull 2 or even 3 trailers at a time, some will not...if the cop takes the time to pull you over and show you his/her interpretation of the vehicle code. The response that "It was legal in North Dakota" to a CHP in CA will likely just get you a comment that "you are now in California." No sense of humor.

The biggest issue regarding toad braking is the liability question after an accident, not the actual braking. My FT with its GCWR doesn't really need any trailer braking to safely stop the extra 4400 lbs being towed and neither did my old 1990 U280. I spent my $900 knowing it was just an insurance policy against a potential problem in a court...

Re: towing questions

Reply #45 – May 11, 2011, 04:39:56 pm

Brad,

Very well said. But, a Foretravel pulling a car that is equipped with auxiliary brakes will stop in a shorter distance than the same identical setup without aux brakes. I, too, think of the aux brakes as an insurance policy but also as a safety enhancement.

Re: towing questions

Reply #46 – May 11, 2011, 07:28:05 pm

It actually works with reciprocity in the various states as to legality. You have to be legal in your own state. That is different than weight or federal highway laws and or double or triple towing. I did run a test though to see and I had no difference in stopping distance with a friends coach with an M and G at 20 MPH stopping on a passing a cone. In fact he stopped faster without the tow brake hooked up. Now I know having extra brakes is good but I also know that we can pull our tows behind us till they burn up and never know it. So, to each their own. And for the record, I had a small accident in NC with a kid who pulled out in front of me. The tow brake was never looked at or looked for by the state trooper. THis is one of those things that people will just disagree on. Also for the record it was an Air Force One brake that caused the issues when I was at MOT and I saw them install the first one they ever did too. It was not the first one and it was not installed by MOT but rather by Air Force one themselves. I saw an M and G burn up a Mercedes and I saw more brake buddies cause problems than I can shake a stick at. These are serious burned up rotors and wheels ruined issues. I pulled my Jeep one time down the road and forgot to take the brake off. It squealed but I could not hear it but saw the black marks when I turned and stopped and released the brake. Taught me I do not want one after only going 50 yards with it locked up.

Re: towing questions

Reply #47 – May 11, 2011, 08:14:30 pm

I understand if your violating an equipment law requiring a toad brake you would be in trouble since your insurance carrier might decide not to cover you because you were breaking(no pun intended) a law, let alone a ticket violation.

Quote

The biggest issue regarding toad braking is the liability question after an accident, not the actual braking.

I'm not clear on how it affects your liability if a toad brake is not required in your state. Lets imagine your on the interstate and there's a traffic back up and you rear-end someone, aren't you fully liable anyway?
I agree that having the toad brake should improve your braking (basic physics) and would help prevent the accident in the first place.

Re: towing questions

Reply #48 – May 12, 2011, 06:15:03 am

Get you a jeep wrangler, and M&G air brake. We have towed the jeep over 20K miles no issue jeep has 60K on it with the oem brakes still in good shape. Brackets are easy to find, jeeps are easy to find, they tow good, have great resale value, and most of all fun. The other thing about jeeps just put the T/case neutral, trans in gear or park, key in proper position, takes about 5 min to hook and go by myself. As far as backing up time you have to unhook a couple of times you'll figure where you can go and not go. A brake system is a must with any towed for safety's sake from time to time I forget to plug in the air line for the brakes, I can tell the difference with the first stop. Also if you are not in a hurry with a little time on the computer you can find all the parts tow bar, brackets, and so on, For a WHOLE bunch less than $1800-$2000 bucks. I found a nearly new 5000lb blue ox tow bar the other day for $200.00.

Re: towing questions

Reply #49 – May 12, 2011, 08:19:52 am

I must agree with Bruce, I bought a brand new Road Master base plate or as some call it brackets for less than $300, I think for PP&L, for my Subaru and a used Road Master hitch for $175. I did my own wiring on the car with diodes I bought at Radio Shack for under $20 and wiring supplies from an auto parts store for another $25, total spent, $520. This is probably about a low as one can go unless the car is already equipped for towing. I did all installation myself in about 6 hours.

But I still recommend getting breaks installed. I wouldn't have said this 6 months ago before I got my M&G brake system but I am a believer now.

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