No Brake Lights

Topic: No Brake Lights (Read 1496 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: No Brake Lights

Reply #25 – July 17, 2012, 08:49:26 pm

Quote from: Peter & Beth – July 14, 2012, 10:33:13 pm

I'll have to take a test drive with the new brake switches and determine if the joystick retarder disengages the cruise. This also means that the brake lights would also be engaged by the use of the joystick. There was much corrosion going on at the circuit where the brake light switches are located. If there is a circuit for the joystick/Allison, it may have been disabled by all the corrosion. I'll report back in the future.

Peter

After a test drive, the result is that the joy stick does not engage the brake lights nor does it disengage the cruise control. Here's a couple pictures of street side compartment No. 1 where the brake light switches are located. You can even see the wire labeled 33 which goes back to the King Cruise unit per the electrical schematic.
Peter

Re: No Brake Lights

Reply #26 – July 17, 2012, 08:57:10 pm

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – July 15, 2012, 02:03:48 am

When the transmission retarder joy stick is added, a relay is added just to turn on Foretravel brake lights. Allison does not require this relay to activate the retarder from the joy stick.

If someone adds a joy stick and does not add the relay, joy stick retard will not turn on brake lights. And if driving on a highway with cruise control on and joy stick in a retard position, and the coach goes down a dip, the accelerator goes to zero position, retard comes on, and when the coach reaches the bottom of the dip, the coach will again accelerate and retard will go off.

If the relay is in place because the joy stick was originally part of the coach or the relay added, joy stick retard action will turn on brake lights and immediately turn off cruise, which stays off and must be reactivated manually.

Barry,
Is the relay in the picture below the Bosch unit you're talking about?
Peter

Re: No Brake Lights

Reply #27 – July 17, 2012, 11:51:38 pm

Quote from: Peter & Beth – July 15, 2012, 09:07:27 am

Barry,
Which drawing depicts this circuitry? Where is the relay placed physically, and do you know which wire number?

Thanks, Peter

Peter,
I've not seen a FT drawing of the King Controls wiring. At least it isn't in my 1998 Owner's Manual drawings.
I use the KC2600 Foot Throttle Wiring Diagram (attached below)

and Barry Beam has the King Control Diagnostic chart at:
NO THROTTLE, NO CRUISE, NO FAST IDLE

The Bosch relay is mounted beside and outboard of the two air pressure switches on the forward bulkhead. That is the "added relay" that Barry Levitt speaks of. Did you pull that relay and check for connector high resistance/clean and lube? I've also found "not-ideal, relay contacts resistance (10's to 100's of ohms of resistance), should be a dead short when relay is energized". I've replaced my Bosch relay twice.
As you've observed, not a friendly home for these components (air switches and especially relay) and therefore need to pamper a bit.
FWIW,
Neal

Re: No Brake Lights

Reply #28 – July 18, 2012, 12:43:51 am

Here is the Foretravel wiring diagram for the add-on retarder relay located near the brake light air switches.
When this relay is closed, it turns on the brake lights.
Yes, this is Peter's relay in the photo above.

This add-on relay is triggered by the retarder relay on the main circuit breaker panel by the front door.

Re: No Brake Lights

Reply #29 – July 18, 2012, 12:58:10 am

Barry,
Thanks. I've put it in my Owner's Manual now!
Neal

Re: No Brake Lights

Reply #30 – July 18, 2012, 12:58:38 am

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – July 18, 2012, 12:43:51 am

Here is the Foretravel wiring diagram for the add-on retarder relay located near the brake light air switches.
When this relay is closed, it turns on the brake lights.
Yes, this is the relay in the photo above.

This add-on relay is triggered by the retarder relay on the main circuit breaker panel by the front door.

So if that is disconnected, as mine is, the retarder works on cruise control. Brake still disconnects the cruise also. Way handy. Just does not warn the guy behind you that a kind of brake is on. Hmmmm. Anyone here good enough to figure out how to have the brake lights work on retarder function and not shut off the cruise? safety? Less on and off?

Bob

Re: No Brake Lights

Reply #31 – July 18, 2012, 10:09:53 am

Thanks, Barry & Neal. I too have saved the electrical schematic for the Cruise relay. There's so much owners do not have in their manuals.

I will clean & lube the relay connections this weekend after we arrive in Indiana.

Many thanks,

Peter

Re: No Brake Lights

Reply #32 – July 18, 2012, 11:06:19 am

Quote from: Peter & Beth – July 18, 2012, 10:09:53 am

".....There's so much owners do not have in their manuals."........

Peter,
In retrospect, I think that my manual may have been missing this drawing because the '98 U270's didn't come standard with the joy stick. The rest of the retarder system came installed from the factory, minus the joy stick. The Tampa store (FT SALES & SERVICE) installed the joy stick as part of our new unit purchase.
I've always been impressed with how thorough and complete the factory information has been with our coach, right down to the component/appliance owner's manuals and the two page list of model and serial numbers, for every installed coach component that has one (all the way from engine and transmission to Stereo IR Repeater).
I've always been puzzled over owner's comments about incomplete manuals, having felt that FT did an outstanding effort on mine. Maybe "future owner's manuals" have gotten out of kilter because wiring diagrams, wire lists, error code sheets, FT Coach manuals and appliance owner's manuals/information get taken apart and/or not kept current and with the coach?
Anyway, I always tout the FT brand as exceptional in it's attention to documentation detail, as compared with the SOB's. That can't be just my experience.............. can it?
FWIW,
Neal

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Re: No Brake Lights

Reply #25 – July 17, 2012, 08:49:26 pm

Re: No Brake Lights

Reply #26 – July 17, 2012, 08:57:10 pm

Re: No Brake Lights

Reply #27 – July 17, 2012, 11:51:38 pm

Re: No Brake Lights

Reply #28 – July 18, 2012, 12:43:51 am

Re: No Brake Lights

Reply #29 – July 18, 2012, 12:58:10 am

Re: No Brake Lights

Reply #30 – July 18, 2012, 12:58:38 am

Re: No Brake Lights

Reply #31 – July 18, 2012, 10:09:53 am

Re: No Brake Lights

Reply #32 – July 18, 2012, 11:06:19 am

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