Narrowing the search

Topic: Narrowing the search (Read 1730 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #25 – June 18, 2012, 12:08:59 pm

Well, this isn't helping to narrow the search! <grin> Looks like the answers to my questions are:

1. Yes, a U300 will have a somewhat greater carrying capacity than a U280.

2. Apparently, although a propane-powered generator may have been standard, most buyers opted for a diesel-powered one. Since I prefer a diesel-powered generator, I will probably pass on any coach that has a propane-powered one unless otherwise it is an exceptional deal.

3. It looks like NADA may either have some wrong information, or the Oshkosh chassis lasted a bit longer (at least on paper) than I thought. At any rate, I should be able to tell the difference now.

4. No real answer yet.

Other points that have been raised and answered in this thread are the tambour doors (we prefer them), the cooling issue of the early Unicoach style (I prefer cooler temperatures to warmer ones), the height of the driver from the ground (Unihome drivers sit higher than Unicoach drivers), road noise (a mid-coach door will be somewhat quieter than a front door), the navigator sits closer to the driver in a Unihome, and a Unicoach makes somewhat better use of the space than a Unihome due to the layout differences.

So far I haven't read anything that would make me want to eliminate any of the 12 coaches on the list (93 and 94 U280 and U300, 95 U295C, U320, U320SE, 96 U295, and 97 U320).

Thanks for all the comments here. We'll digest this much and have more questions later.

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #26 – June 18, 2012, 01:07:45 pm

Dave,

There is one more difference in the early ('95, '96 Unicoaches) that may or may not prove to be an issue. When we were considering moving "up" from our U-280 to a 295 or 320, Dave Robertson (owner of MOT) explained that the first year ('95) of the Unicoach, the front entry door was narrower (than in the Unihomes) and had no screen door. In '96 they added a half-screened door, but kept the width of the door the same. In '97 they widened (I think by 2 inches) the door and added basically the same sized screen door they have in newer coaches. So, you may want to figure this information into your equation, or it may not make any difference.

Dave Head has a '95 U-320, so he can chime in as to any effect(s), as can Chuck Pearson, as I think he has a '96 U-295.

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #27 – June 18, 2012, 01:45:01 pm

Quote from: Don Hay – June 18, 2012, 01:07:45 pm

Dave,

There is one more difference in the early ('95, '96 Unicoaches) that may or may not prove to be an issue. When we were considering moving "up" from our U-280 to a 295 or 320, Dave Robertson (owner of MOT) explained that the first year ('95) of the Unicoach, the front entry door was narrower (than in the Unihomes) and had no screen door. In '96 they added a half-screened door, but kept the width of the door the same. In '97 they widened (I think by 2 inches) the door and added basically the same sized screen door they have in newer coaches. So, you may want to figure this information into your equation, or it may not make any difference.

Dave Head has a '95 U-320, so he can chime in as to any effect(s), as can Chuck Pearson, as I think he has a '96 U-295.

Lack of a screen door on our 95 U320 was one reason DW MADE me buy our current 02. Hopefully, she is done with buying another Foretravel....Unless I find a 06-07 Phenix.

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #28 – June 18, 2012, 03:59:04 pm

OK, here are some choices, which I made two years ago before I bought my 1996 U320, which may help you with your decision.
There is no absolutely perfect answer here, just my "shades of gray" opinions.

I boondock in isolated places for weeks or months, using solar panels ( 850 watts) and ruthless power management (all LED). I use genset power less then 20 hours/year, use A/C less then 10 hours/year, fire propane water heater for only 10 minutes each morning, and use furnaces less then 10 hours/year. I stay in full service RV parks for no more then 10 days/year, mostly for Motorcader events.

I live full time in my U320 for about 5.5 months each year (California). I live in my Victoria, BC, Canada house for 6.5 months of each year. If, when down south, the outside temperatures are too hot, I fire the Cummins M11 and move to a cooler location.

Generator:
I would prefer a 6KW propane generator over the 10KW diesel that I have because:
1. Weight: Propane gensets are much lighter than diesel gensets.
2. Exhaust: Propane exhaust is almost odorless, diesel exhaust is nauseating.
3. Sound level: Propane engines run quieter than diesel engines.

Cabinets:
I love the tamboured cabinet doors, they say Foretravel even more than the wonderful Walnut cabinets and walnut wall panelling. Both tamboured doors and walnut wall panelling were discontinued after 1996.

Entry door:
I prefer the access of a mid-entry, however, a mid-entry 40ft U320 has no pantry which I love. The mid-entry 40ft Unihomes (all U280, all U300) or Unicoach (few U320, few U295) have reduced basement storage and less useable floor space then the front entry Unicoach.

Unihome vs Unicoach:
I do not care for the raised sitting position of the driver and passenger seats in the Unihome. I had that in my SOB gas 32ft motorhome for 10 years. I prefer the level floor of the Unicoach because the driver and passenger seats become a part of the "living room" when rotated. I also prefer the panoramic front window of the Unicoach when parked and use an ouside see-through window cover to reduce the heating caused by the sun. It can be uncomfortably hot when driving, so if too hot, I run the generator and roof A/C's or wait for a cooler day.
I also prefer the modern bus look of the Unicoach. People say that my 1996 Unicoach looks like a 2005 or newer motorhome.

Engine:
I wanted a large, powerful, modern "4 stroke" diesel. This includes the Cummins M11 (U320) and Cat 3176 (few U320's or U300's). I did consider Cummins 8.3 (U295) but did not want old technology two stroke DD 6V92 (U300) or smaller Cat engines (3116, 3126). I enjoy climbing steep hills at 50mph while passing most other motorhomes. The reduced cost for diesel which can be obtained with a smaller engine is not significant to me, however, the reduced hill climbing ability is.

Retarder:
This is attached to the Alison automatic transmission, not to the engine like Jake or PAC devices. The brake horsepower produced cannot be matched by any engine brake. I very seldom need service brakes when descending steep hills.

Aquahot:
I prefer the propane furnaces, propane hot water tank, and 120vAC engine heater that my coach has and would not purchase a coach with Aquahot because it is a high maintenance item, produces same type of exhaust and noise as a generator, adds considerable weight to the coach, and requires considerable time to produce hot water when fired cold.

Aquahot was optional in 95 & 96 U320's and became included in 97 and newer U320's. Most 95 & 96 U320's and all 97 and newer U320's have Aquahot. Very few U295's have Aquahot. Unlike me, most Foretravel owners prefer the Aquahot diesel boiler for hot water, interior heating, and engine preheat because it uses diesel to produce the heat rather then propane, it provides endless hot water, and it keeps the interior comfortable with even heat.

I purchased the 1996 U320 I have because of the tamboured doors, walnut panelling, NO Aquahot, M11, retarder, solid tight bulheads, and painted outside stripes (vinyl decals tend to have a short life).
I purchased from MOT in April of 2010 because the price was right and a dealer must by law assure "NO liens" (I exported it to Canada).

I hope some of this information helps you in your quest - it can feel overwhelming at times.

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #29 – June 18, 2012, 05:38:24 pm

Quote from: P. Wyatt Sabourin – June 18, 2012, 03:59:04 pm

OK, here are some choices, which I made two years ago before I bought my 1996 U320, which may help you with your decision.
There is no absolutely perfect answer here, just my "shades of gray" opinions.

What a great description of your coach, modes of use, and preferences!

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #30 – June 18, 2012, 06:20:55 pm

If you are tall the 99 and maybe 98 years the counter tops cam up to residential height of 36" and I think the earlier models where 34". Not a big change but a good one for me.

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #31 – June 18, 2012, 06:38:12 pm

Good points this afternoon! Thank you. We didn't pay any attention to the counter heights when we were at MOT, so the next time we'll have to make note of that.

Wyatt, we aren't hard-core boondockers, but we do want the ability to do so on occasion. Sounds like it is possible that we will run into a coach with Aqua Hot, but probably not likely. I know they can be expensive to repair and require annual maintenance, but then most things do require maintenance. We're still debating the Unihome style versus the Unicoach style. At this point we can't really point to any major advantage to either over the other.

I have a suspicion that when it comes to time to buy, the price will have more to do with our decision than anything else. At this point I don't see anything that would make me want to remove any of the possible coaches from our list. In fact, we haven't even decided whether we prefer a 36' or a 40' coach. We're also talking about whether a washer/drier is something that we want. Most likely, that won't be a make-or-break issue. If the coach we like has one, we'll take it. If not, we will still take the coach.

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #32 – June 18, 2012, 07:14:15 pm

To me, the tambour doors epitomize the Foretravel Quality. They are so well finished they look like a solid piece of wood. Can you tell I am a real fan of the vintage Grand Villas?

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #33 – June 18, 2012, 07:26:29 pm

Tambour stopped with the 1996 model year, except for maybe 6 coaches that were built with a newer style of tambour, according to David Flannigan (?). He explained the supplier of the tambour used for years stopped production. The available other stuff was a series of wood beveled strips mounted on the fabric and did not present as a solid piece of wood like all the tambour before. The very few coaches were built, and then solid doors became the norm.

As to higher seating in the Unicoach, we also find we can not see out the windshield when traveling or parked from any of the living room seating area. This matters when the coach is parked with a potential view thru the front windshield. This is not much of a problem in a back in site when you might want more privacy. We use a look thru windshield cover when parked, and have just added the front and all the other window tint, and now have total privacy during the day and the night till we turn on an interior light.

With the mid door, my wife and the puppy love the "nest" of the passenger foot area. We have a great dog bed, slippers, computer inverter, maps and travel guides, and purse all stored in that area. If we had a forward door, then that area is the pass thru walking area whenever we stop and exit the coach as the floor step cover slides away. As we don't wear shoes much in the coach we love leaving the shoes in the mid door step area as well.

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #34 – June 18, 2012, 10:04:01 pm

Amazing thread. Took my 97 320 to the shop today to replace the governor on the air chassis and a 1988 unihome I sold new was in there. Talk about déjà vu.

Had not thought about the flat floor. Duh...

My 320 does have a small row of adjustable height drawers next to the dinette.

The rocket ship proto unihomes tambour doors would slide open under power.

Tambour doors rubber backing will need replacing some day. Is it available?

I am the opposite on the propane versus aquahot. The temp in the coach would go up and down in major swings. Too hot, too cold, too hot. Burner shuts off fan keeps blowing as the overheat limiter keeps it on. Noisy. Higher fuel consumption.

Aqua hot seems to run less fuel and the three zones and heated bays are a plus. Especially to have a seperate thermostat in the bath. DW likes that a lot. System capacity for extreme cold seems higher than dual propane furnaces.

After 100k miles in grand villas long ago we both commented on the IMAX view. Wrap around. DW is a photo girl and was really happier with the unicoaches increased visibility.

Propane gens are flathead motors. Valves in block. Inherently inefficient. 1 gallon per hour. Diesel .4 gallons per hour.

I am really happy and paid extra for my center entry. Has more storage underneath than I probably will use but the front area being the same on the drivers and passenger side and the flat floor is a different experience for us. We REALLY like the 97 u320

Terrible turning radius. No tag. With a tag the coach turns on the front six tires. Better storage without the tag....

Parallel storage doors. Fantastic. Versus squating under slanted doors...

Dual pane windows. Another big plus. Quieter. Less furnace and ac time. Same with the white gel coat in the sun. Less ac time by far.

Xtarder is the bomb. Not sure what year it started but I noticed the 88 had the tires to the edge of the body on a 96 inch coach. My 97 102 is the same. Not sure when that started. Less body roll.

Yes the PTL door with a real heavily made screen door is another big plus.

Agree on the front heating driving into the sun with a unicoach in the summer. Definitely warmer. If you have to drive west in the hot summer weather it's Definitately warmer.

Old marquis customers used to pull off interstate 40 and such by 2 o'clock in the afternoon and head north or south to an Rv park and finish the next day. Remember one telling me that coming back from shawnee on the cb..

I had a customer put her head in an walnut interior foretravel and shake her head and start to back out of the coach. Had a lot of that btw. I asked her what was wrong? Knowing the answer but I thought I would ask her. "too dark". Yea so? It's beautiful. Yes she said but this was obviously built in a sun belt state. Huh? What does mean? She turned out to be a psychologist and the more hours of daylight in the lower tiers of states compensated for the dark walls....she also mentioned that the Oregon builders had light walls and wood to help compensate for the less hours of daylight. I was astounded. way too easy...

Without telling too many tales out of school in the original days Marie picked out the fabrics and wood colors. She was also on medication......true story? Finally had Mc Cathy do the fabric boards and things got prettier.

I did not even notice why my 97 felt so different. Until now. No wood walls. Flat floors . Kept looking around. Could not figure it out. Duh...

And like I told the customers back then the walnut lightens beautifully in use.

I did one unihome for a dr and foretravel hated me as I had dr unsells coach high gloss verathaned. Foretravel charged me 5k to do it and said not to do it again.

Wood grain looked a foot deep. Dr was speechless when he saw it.

Love the intermediate years but step up as far as possible financially.

It's only money. As long as its yours....haha.

Bob

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #35 – June 19, 2012, 01:30:47 am

bought the one I have after the 93 GV that was great but I wanted all the extra things it did not have. This has all we need for comfortable tavelling and now I have done the changes most of you know about we can go anywhere and enjoy it. I decided on this coach because the price was right(about 60% of true market value at the time) so that gave lots of room for the upgrades!!
If something is not exactly what I want in a coach, I get used to it. Life is like that.
John H

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #36 – June 19, 2012, 02:22:56 am

Funny how people are. The DW and I both love the walnut walls but the lighter ceiling and the white rug (which we plan to change - probably to cork flooring) tend to moderate the darkness a bit. Plus the big windows help; is it my imagination or are the windows on a FT larger than those on other coaches? I know that units with slides seem to have smaller windows.

We also love the tambour cabinet doors.

But we do know that some (maybe most) people like a lighter interior. I just like living inside a beautiful piece of furniture!

Craig

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #37 – June 19, 2012, 04:33:53 pm

To Quote Craig: "I just like living inside a beautiful piece of furniture!"

Very well put and AMEN!

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #38 – June 19, 2012, 09:47:45 pm

"But we do know that some (maybe most) people like a lighter interior."

Although we haven't been in a lot of either 'Birds or Foretravels, Jo Ann has commented that the Foretravels seem lighter and more spacious than the 'Birds. To be fair, we've only been in four 'Birds, two of which were FC models. For those who don't know 'Bird-speak, the FC (Forward Control) is basically the flat-face school bus body. Ceiling height is a problem for her on those. A 1994 BMC (Bluebird Motor Coach) appealed to her somewhat. The 1988 WB40 (Wide Body 40') had no electricity in it and was parked in a bus barn at the time we saw it, so it was quite dark.

We saw a U240 a couple of months ago. It, too, was in the barn, but it had electricity to it, so was plenty light. All of the coaches we saw at FOT and MOT were plugged in, so were well lighted.

On our trip to and from Branson today we talked about the lighting in the coaches. We wondered about whether the side windows in the 'Birds might not be as large as the corresponding windows in the Foretravels. That would certainly account for a difference in brightness inside. Just going from pictures, it would seem that the Unicoach Foretravels have a larger windshield than 'Birds do, although I think the Unihome windshields might be a bit smaller. When we get farther along in the decision process it probably would be worth it to ask for some actual measurements.

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #39 – June 19, 2012, 10:13:52 pm

Quote from: kb0zke – June 19, 2012, 09:47:45 pm

"But we do know that some (maybe most) people like a lighter interior."

I remember showing foretravels with all the lights on. In the daytime

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #40 – June 19, 2012, 10:33:40 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – June 19, 2012, 10:13:52 pm

I remember showing foretravels with all the lights on. In the daytime

I managed to become a merchant marine officer just at the cusp of the change between the old and the new and sailed on some ships built in the 1950s. The officer's quarters and mess were all dark wood paneling which I thought was soothing after coming off watch during nasty weather.

Our stix-n-brix was, at one time, my "lake cabin" and the living room has two walls paneled by barn boards with artwork depicting ferries, sailboats and other nautical scenes. The DW is always threatening to tear down the barn boards and use a lighter wall color. So far I have resisted.

Although the DW likes our Foretravel it's likely that she generally prefers something lighter; and I would be willing to bet that's why Flash showed coaches with the lights on.

So.... are Foretravels - especially those from an era with walnut paneling as well as cupboards - more of a "man's" coach?

Craig

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #41 – June 19, 2012, 11:42:29 pm

Foretravel must have made an attempt at lightening up coaches in the early 90's. We have what I think is a very unusual interior finish called "pickled walnut" - I think there are only 3 in existence. It also has light colored wallpaper on the walls covering the walnut paneling. When we were looking my wife liked the quality of the FT's we saw but was a little put off with the dark wood. When we saw this one, that was it. I believe our coach was a motorcade coach for a while that they designed up with their latest styling and took to motorcade events to get opinions on. Our "chair table" has a Corian top where all the other coaches of our year usually have an all wood look and we have full window boxes which also seems unusual for our year. So foretravel did try to do lighter but like the GV320 it just didn't seem to take for those who were actually buying - too bad because it seems like it's something people want.

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #42 – June 19, 2012, 11:59:18 pm

John... just when we think we have figured it out someone throws another curve into the mix. Very cool coach! Thanks for posting the pictures.

Craig

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #43 – June 20, 2012, 12:15:03 am

Quote from: JohnFitz – June 19, 2012, 11:42:29 pm

Foretravel must have made an attempt at lightening up coaches in the early 90's. We have what I think is a very unusual interior finish called "pickled walnut" - I think there are only 3 in existence. It also has light colored wallpaper on the walls covering the walnut paneling.

Wow you guys keep coming up with stuff to try my memories. Whitewash but what? Pecan?

I built a side hall u280 40 in 89 for Cleo Dunlap in pecan. Is he still in the ca chapter? And lavone johns?

Thought the hallway was on the passenger side?

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #44 – June 20, 2012, 12:42:02 am

Quote from: Caflashbob – June 20, 2012, 12:15:03 am

Thought the hallway was on the passenger side?

Flash... now that you mention it, the only side-hallway I've ever seen was an '89 U300 and that was on the passenger side. Interesting stuff. I'll bet that it does tickle your memory muscles.

Craig

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #45 – June 20, 2012, 08:25:47 am

John,
Thanks for sharing the photos and info. Nice looking too.

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #46 – June 20, 2012, 08:43:27 am

Quote

Pecan?

No, it's walnut. White stain wiped off right away with a clear polyrethane on top.

I think it didn't take off because people might think it was too faddish and would be difficult to resell - just my guess.
But you can't say Foretravel didn't try something light colored. I guess the light wallpaper did take a few years later.

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #47 – June 20, 2012, 09:08:16 am

They DID build pecan interior coaches-- I have seen several, including a friend's 1994 U240. They have not been pickled.

And, yes Cleo and Atna are still Foretraveling and continue to be very active within the Foretravel community. Saw them a couple of weeks ago in Nacogdoches when I was up doing a mechanical inspection on a 320.

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #48 – June 20, 2012, 09:51:38 pm

My 93 U280 was pecan... Gorgeous interior. The lightness go oak without the heavy grain.

Re: Narrowing the search

Reply #49 – June 20, 2012, 10:14:05 pm

Quote from: wa_desert_rat – June 20, 2012, 12:42:02 am

Flash... now that you mention it, the only side-hallway I've ever seen was an '89 U300 and that was on the passenger side. Interesting stuff. I'll bet that it does tickle your memory muscles.

Craig

You old junk guys need me around just for the memories. Actually I am a better 80's and some 70's guy.

Hardly see any of the new owners here?

Or just riding and rejoicing?

Bob

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