bulkhead blues

Topic: bulkhead blues (Read 12047 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #250 – July 27, 2012, 07:59:57 am

Quote from: michaelespitz – July 26, 2012, 11:45:27 pm

Dean,
My 2003 has the same four plastic covers with nutted bolts front and rear. It looks to me like it was part of the original build because those four bolts are spaced evenly along with the Roloks; in other words they're not sistered beside another bolt. Also, the four nutted bolts are evenly distributed across the beam, same front and rear. As with yours, several of my bolt heads also show what looks like a caulk or sealant under the head.
If you remove those plastic covers, you can get a look inside at the nut and the condition of the inside of the tube. They simply snap back in.

Mike
2003 u295, #6063

Yep, that's why I used the words "quessing" and "hoping" because I wasn't sure and had not seen any mention of the plugs etc. in previous posts.
I took a look at the undercoat this morning and I think I will spray another coat on it before I move to the front bulkhead. Had a few thin spots and I want to make sure the top and bottom seams are well covered.

Dean

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #251 – July 27, 2012, 01:53:25 pm

Quote from: Chuck Pearson – July 24, 2012, 11:14:40 pm

As far as corrosion protection, will use LPS3 which is a liquified wax with excellent staying power-years.

The "liquified wax" thing caught my eye. This is similar to what VW and Mercedes uses on their vehicles when new as a undercoating. Works great. And I was thinking, fire apparatus here in the northeast rust out very fast. The trucks get washed after every fire -- The reason they rust is that there are so many places on the undercarrage where water sits after the vehicle is washed. And the manufacturers don't put anything there to prevent it. The LPS3 and some drainage holes sound like the ticket to prevent that.

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #252 – July 27, 2012, 02:23:09 pm

I posted about that stuff on the 23rd and used it for many years on the BMW. No rust after 20 yrs. I still have the low pressure spray gun and wands and product for doing coach. The last 5 gall pail I bought was made by Krown undercoating products. I think it was around $200 for the pail, but worht every cent IMHO
John

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #253 – July 27, 2012, 04:52:01 pm

LPS3 is great stuff. As a tech at the marine science institute we used it by the 5 gal pail. Electrical disconnects outside in the salt air breeze and spray would rust away in two years without it and only federally funded vessels could afford stainless steel. The handles would disappear first, making the unit inoperative. Spraying them down with 3, I put some in and fourteen years later were still in fine shape. We coated every outboard powerhead with it till it dripped, avoiding the oxygen sensors and belts, and you could loosen any bolt on the engine years later. All in a saltwater environment. Every year or so things would get another heavy coat, it builds up. It's kind of grody looking stuff but if you need to clean it off spray brake cleaner or similar solvents will remove it. We dispensed it with hand spray bottles.

When I retired I felt a little uneasy without the stuff around so I bought a five gallon pail for myself. Lifetime supply.

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #254 – July 27, 2012, 07:17:25 pm

Used that stuff in the Aircraft industry also! You could fog the inside of a wing or amphibious floats and it would be very well protected. It is fantastic and will creep itself into the tiniest spots!!

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #255 – August 15, 2012, 09:49:40 pm

I have been working for several weeks to repair the catastrophic front bulkhead failure that occured while we were in Louisianna. My post in the "HAS THIS HAPPENED TO ANYONE" post had photos of my major bulkhead failure. A local welder in Louisanna welded several 3 inch angle brackets to the existing angle iron to support the "floor". This bandaid got us to Maine where I could address the final repair. And that is what I have been doing for several weeks. With the help of a local welder we pulled the front axle as far back as we could using a 1 1/2 ton chain come along. Initially I was going to remove the angle irons that were welded on in Louisianna at Brett's suggestion. Decided against it however as I thought the additional support would not hurt. Just jacked up the floor a bit to reduce the resistance while pulling the front axle back. Then we welded the added angle irons to the bottom of the box beam. Also did a bit of stitch welding. Now the REAL work began as I had to drill 17 holes through the angle iron and box beam. This is where the intuitivness of a local "redneck" (my son) came in real handy. The photos show the brain versus braun approach to drilling holes through 7/16" of steel.

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #256 – August 15, 2012, 11:13:36 pm

nicely done, and a great sense of humor -

Lots of noise and angst on this forum about the bulkhead issue - looks like you had a pretty bad case, if I can ask, what in total did this "catastrophic" incident set you back financially, and how confident are you that the issue is solved once and for all?

Seems to be a variety of opinion on this topic and you have one of the more significant separations that we have seen to date. If yours was "affordable" and you have confidence in the repair, that would do a lot to put others minds at ease

Thanks!

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #257 – August 15, 2012, 11:45:25 pm

Total cost was less than a thousand dollars. The welder in Louisianna charged us $350. The welder in Maine worked on the rig a couple days and charged us $300. I have a couple hundred dollars in materials, nuts, bolts; washers, drill bits, one step rust treatment, cutting oil, undercoating. I have complete confidence that once I have installed the 17 bolts (7 to go) that the bulkhead is going nowhere. I will thoroughly check the rear bulkhead and address any needs there. Once that is complete I feel I will be in Bulkhead heaven. As long as I keep an eye on them I just don't believe that bulkheads will be an issue.

Roland

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #258 – August 16, 2012, 12:12:02 am

Have you or are you planning to check axle alignments left/right and forward to aft? That would be my main concern.

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #259 – August 16, 2012, 09:25:07 am

Had given that some thought, however took the coach to western VT., just a bit under 500 miles round trip, before the job was finished. The coach tracks like an arrow, don't think I'll mess with it just now. Will keep an eye on tread wear for any signs misalignment. Other than that think i"ll leave it as is.

Roland

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #260 – August 16, 2012, 09:51:34 am

Nicely done Roland. Looks like a big job but you probably saved mucho deniro doing it yourself although I didn't see the redneck lube costs included in your calculations.

Dean

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #261 – August 21, 2012, 07:25:53 pm

In reading the 11 pages of posts, what would be the problem of reinforcing the angle iron from FOT with angle iron as per Rolands coach.
On my front angle iron or behind my front tires in our first compartment is our propane tank and fuel tank is. I have a little rust on the angle iron at the front of the compartment on the floor where the propane tank and compartment door opens. It looks like I get water from driving in rain that splashes into the compartment from the bottom drain at propane tank. I have thought of making a "diffuser" to divert rain water from splashing into compartment.
With the weight of the propane tank and fuel tank I have thought of also adding some "reinforcement" to this area. Can anybody see or think what future problems this might be? Thanks

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #262 – August 21, 2012, 07:58:04 pm

Kerry,

I added a "defuser" below the safety opening below the propane tank right after we got the coach. Spaced it down with aluminum box tube so any propane would still be able to drain with the "defuser" a sheet of fiberglass several inches wider and longer than the opening. So, water intrusion into that compartment is minimal.

Not sure I understand the "reinforce the angle" statement. The angle has never been the problem-- at least on all the coaches I have inspected. The problem is water intrusion/damage to the box beam, whose walls are 1/2 the thickness of the angle and if water gets in, no way for water to get out.

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #263 – August 21, 2012, 09:28:15 pm

Brett do you have any pictures of the diffuser you built?

https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=15737.0;attach=10348;image
In this picture Roland had angle iron that goes rearward from the angle iron that FOT installed...I wondered if it wouldn't add extra support to the propane compartment if and in the case of a catastrophic failure? Could you see a problem installing maybe 2 supports on the sides say behind the tires? Thanks

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #264 – August 21, 2012, 09:37:31 pm

Kerry,

Will try to get a photo of the diffuser next time I am over at the coach.

I see not gain from the "back-facing" angle nor harm. Unless it is bolted into the box beam (I guess from the bottom), it serves no purpose-- unless one assumes its purpose is to support that area in the event that the entire bulkhead fails (as it did in his case).

Said another way, having a beam that is under the fiberglass floor, but connected to nothing is-- well-- not worth much.

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #265 – August 21, 2012, 09:50:54 pm

The angle iron Roland added doesn't offer any real resistance to bending. It's section thickness is too thin. Bending stresses will only be resisted by the thin 3/8" cross section of the added angle steel, and the stresses will be concentrated at the apex of the 90 deg angle. If you could wrap another angle around the top of the box section and attach it to the 1/4" angle iron and the box section then you'd have a section modulus that could reasonably resist a bending moment. The roloks work against bending cause you're clamping the 1/4" angle iron to a face of the 1.5"x1.5"x0.125" box section. In this way bending moments are resisted by the bolted joint composed of the full width of the box section and the mating angle iron, clamped under preload. IOW's, the 1/4" angle iron needs to be supported by a full face of the box section, from the top face to the bottom face. It's basically the same reason why welding a bead at just the bottom doesn't work. David

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #266 – August 21, 2012, 10:45:58 pm

The angle Iron that was added to my Coach in Louisiana supported the front bulkhead and got us to Maine. Instead of removing this angle iron I had a local welder weld a bead along the bottom of the box beam and the added angle iron. On one piece of added angle iron he also welded a bead across a longitudinal box beam for a total of three beads along that piece. I thought that those additional welds would provide a bit more strength to the area. I have also install 17 3/8 inch bolts to the front bulkhead. Were the welds wasted time and effort?

Roland

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #267 – August 21, 2012, 11:21:40 pm

Quote from: Kerry – August 21, 2012, 07:25:53 pm

................................On my front angle iron or behind my front tires in our first compartment is our propane tank and fuel tank is. I have a little rust on the angle iron at the front of the compartment on the floor where the propane tank and compartment door opens..............................................

Kerrybob,

The rust that you are seeing in the inner forward corner of the propane compartment is likely from another source, at least it is on my coach.
First, the forward bulkhead of the propane compartment is a latticework of 1.5" X 1.5" X 0.125" box channels, covered by inner and out sheets of metal.

In order to promote air flow into the propane compartment, there is an aluminum or plastic covered inlet vent through the outer sheet metal. It looks just like the freshwater tank overflow setup at the rear bulkhead, behind the curbside duals (see overflow photos attached). The propane and battery compartment inlet vents are up behind the front tires, almost behind the airbag. Inside the propane compartment, there is an uncovered round hole (somewhat offset toward the coach centerline from the outer hole) through the inner sheet metal of the bulkhead.

The rust comes from water and mist thrown up by the front tire, which enters the outer sheet metal vent hole and then drains down into the space between the inner and outer sheet metal. The water collected is trapped there causing the rusting of the sheet metal and the box channel latticework.

I have had Extreme, MOT and FOT all look at my rusted areas (both sides - propane and battery compartments) to see if I need to be (more) concerned.
Consensus:
· Not a structural concern.
· Keep dormant with Corrosion X
· It wouldn't hurt to open up larger inspection holes in both compartments, for routine inspection purposes. These can be made neat and closed off with removable inspection ports.

If you have the vents, I believe that's probably your source of water that's causing the rust.
Neal

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #268 – August 23, 2012, 06:52:09 am

Thank you Neal and Brett,

Neal it looks like that is only on later models, I checked our coach and that would make sense but I don't have the extra hole or vent. I did inspect my coach better and the sheet metal is what seperates my propane area from the tire and bulkhead screw area. I will clean and Ospho or Corrosion X and then paint with an epoxy paint.

Brett have you posted pictures on here before tried a search but couldn't find the diffuser picture.

Thank you all. Kerry

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #269 – August 23, 2012, 10:01:50 am

Diffuser under propane locker vent to keep road spray out of the locker yet not impede air flow if there were a propane leak.

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #270 – August 31, 2012, 02:39:40 pm

FINALLY......finished repairing my front bulkhead. May not be the most elegant or neatest solution, but there are no places where water can infiltrate between the angle iron and box beam. With the 17 bolts and the angle iron supports I will no longer worry about my bulkhead as we mosey on down the road.

Roland

Re: bulkhead blues

Reply #271 – August 31, 2012, 04:14:42 pm

Way to git-r-dun Roland! Looks a 1000% better. I hope to be posting similar news before too long... to bad life has to get in the way of desired progress at times!
Don

Quote from: Roland Begin – August 31, 2012, 02:39:40 pm

FINALLY......finished repairing my front bulkhead. May not be the most elegant or neatest solution, but there are no places where water can infiltrate between the angle iron and box beam. With the 17 bolts and the angle iron supports I will no longer worry about my bulkhead as we mosey on down the road.

Roland