Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Topic: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities (Read 3069 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #25 – October 08, 2012, 09:41:50 am

There are several different brands of motorcycle lifts. Some only lift to bumper height, but still allow you to tow a light toad.

I bought a used Blue Ox that I hope to use soon, that is a platform lift. It lowers to the ground to load, but rises to bumper height with a cable, and then has steel locking bars. The lift is rated for 1000#, weighs 500#. It is rated to flat tow 5000#, but not to tow a trailer with tongue weight. It extends aft about 5', before I add a tow bar system.

Here is a link to the Hydalift system, Lifting & Ground Clearance - Hydralift-USA
It is a higher lifting system, carries any size bike, and allows close toad towing.

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #26 – October 08, 2012, 12:27:01 pm

The 4223 number is the Build Number which Foretravel assigned when the coach was built. Each coach has a unique Build Number, starting at 1 and now at circa 6600. My 1996 U320 has Build 4943.

The four letter words indicate the floor plan. WTBI is walk through bath island bed in a unihome, while WTFE is the same floor plan in a front entry unicoach. These and a couple dozen others can be found on Barry's site.

Slides are an individual choice, others like myself do not want the extra wotk involved with slides, however most folks would not buy a coach without them. There is a lot of discussion about the pro/con of slides on Foreforums.

I have 850 watts of solar on the roof and can walk on the roof with room for TV and internet dishes. I boondock and live on solar.

Tag:
Another highly debated topic. A tag reduces basement storage while adding to CCC and improving handling. I do not have one and have to be quite careful with loading because my coach is very close to GVWR when living full time for 5 months of the year. I did not want one.
However, a motorcycle rack would dictate a tag because 800# of motorcycle/rack on the back will be over 11 feet behind the rear axle without a tag. This 800# load will add 1200# to the rear axle while reducing the front axle load by 400#. This is a significant weight shift which will most certainly overload the rear axle, underload the front axle and produce noticeable, undesireable, handling changes. I have seen large trunks and motorcycle racks on motorhomes which cannot safely accommodate them, which is a foolish, unsafe thing to do.

Hope this helps

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #27 – October 08, 2012, 03:13:23 pm

Quote from: P. Wyatt Sabourin – October 08, 2012, 12:27:01 pm

The 4223 number is the Build Number which Foretravel assigned when the coach was built. Each coach has a unique Build Number, starting at 1 and now at circa 6600. My 1996 U320 has Build 4943.

Wyatt,

There are some instances where FT used 4 digit numbers to indicate model description, in addition to a different 4 digit built number. For example, they show stock number 6096C (build number 6096, a consignment coach) as a 2003 U320 4223 model. It is 42 ft. long, 2 slides. Some other versions I see on their site are a couple of 4010 (40 footers with 1 slide, 3410 (34 ft, 1 slide), etc. I believe the first 2 digits in this case are indicative of length and the last 2 are somehow related to layout/slides. I just checked our paperwork, and ours is a 4020 (we are 40 ft with 2 slides). Perhaps Barry has the code or maybe FT can chime in here.

Michelle

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #28 – October 08, 2012, 03:53:29 pm

I think you are asking for trouble putting that on a single rear axle coach. Way way too much weight with the bike and lift together. I looked for a while at them when I had a 36 footer and decided I could not do it.

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #29 – October 08, 2012, 05:38:23 pm

I use a Cruiserlift, which is a cable lift. It carries the bike high, allowing 3' coupling to the toad. Yes, the 40' without tag was overloaded for me, but the 42 footer is fine. Buy the dust shield to prevent road splash, and a cover from Coastline Covers, and you're good to go.

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #30 – October 08, 2012, 08:40:48 pm

Nancy and/or Steve Snow, I hear you, and have seriously considered trying to fabricate something with a Dodge/Benz Sprint or just building a another G20 van, diesel this time and pulling another Airstream. Bigger is better for me now is trying to justify a motorhome when a TT would most likely give me what I want, but with a smaller windshield.

kbOzke, I don't know what a WOG is, nor what is considered a "fuel hog" in the motorhome industry. Local diesel is about $4 bucks here, unless you're in a boat. Many folks live on their boats down here and if a guy can get 2 gallons per mile at idle in some of these rigs they're lucky. Some have genset larger than your propulsion drive, other have two gensets and two propulsion drives with 8000 sq ft of living area. It all seems illogical when a Smartcar will get you where you want to go and most couples can live in a well equip 500 sq ft area. I'll use solar where I can trying to be fuel conscience as possible.

Dave and or Dolly Cobb, thanks for the info; I haven't heard of the brand you've mentioned. The ones I was referring too was Hydrolift (fluid) and Cruiserlift (cable). A friend has a Hydrolift and of course...thinks it's the best. ;-) I think it cost him 5 grand to put that smile on his face.

P. Wyatt Sabourin, thanks for the info, weight=distance from the axle has been a concern, wow 850 watts with walking room to-boot, now were talking! I've read some of HandyBob's handy work and others with a more tactful approach. Solar is really becoming an affordable alternative!

Rough cost estimate and comparison. Fuel, service contract, maintenance, insurance
I've guestimated 6 mouth fuel use @ 10,000 miles including genset to be 1500 gallons @ 8 mpg +/-.
A diesel van pulling an airstream would be about 1000 gallons @ 12 mpg +/-. 500-gallon difference in 6 months. If I guestimate that I'll spend $1000 in maintenance for the airstream/van then I should probably say $2000 for the coach. Both will have service warranties, or whatever they call them these days, against catastrophic failure. The coach warranty will cost 50% more +$500. Insurance should be higher on the coach, guestimating a $600 difference in 6 months. Overall I've guestimated the cost of a coach to be $4500.00 more for 10,000 miles over a 6-month period or $25.00 per day. Not bad if the ride and pleasure derived from the coach is worth it.
Fuel 5000/7500 @ $5 per gallon
Service contract $1000/1500
Maintenance/retrofit 1000/2000
Insurance 500/1000
Airstream $7,500-$41 per day for 182 days
Coach $12,000 $66 per day for 182 days
Either way it's reasonable.
The unknown is depreciation or being stuck with a paperweight.
I suspect that a 5-year window is a practical approach. I could sell out earlier or trade up within 5 years but this arbitrary number fits at this point. If I purchase a Foretravel and want out or want to trade up, can I expect that they will consider a trade? It's a lot to expect in this flooded market but it would be nice to know if they would. Hope is not a strategy so I'm trying to look at this adventure from a 2018 perspective, which is one of the reasons I'm looking for something around 5 years old. What would be the residual value of a 2001 coach in 2018 vs a 2008 coach that is 10 years old? Could I even get parts for a 17 year old coach in 2018?
>>What am I missing and what needs changing?<<

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #31 – October 08, 2012, 09:02:23 pm

Thanks Michelle, this may seem untimely, but I started writing the last post, got called away, finished and posted it when I returned, only to discover that others had posted..ops.

Thanks John.S good stuff to know.

Amos.harrison, the Cruiserlift said the carry at 40 inches high and the cables are preferred against hydraulic failure and for parts availability.

Was the/is the axle on the 42 foot closer to the end or do you have a tag on the 42' where there was none on the 40'? I considered the Dust Shield and was going to research bike covers. I guess Coastline Covers is a good place to start. In the past I've covered my harley with yamaha covers just to keep the wolves at bay.
Thanks for all your help!

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #32 – October 08, 2012, 09:07:23 pm

Without getting political & ruffing feathers, I would wait until after the election, then you will have a clearer view into the future, I feel.
Either way it's your money, so do what makes you fesl all warm & fuzzy.
Cheers
Dave M

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #33 – October 08, 2012, 10:33:57 pm

All 42s have a tag if they have an ISM or bigger.

There are 17 year old coaches now that are getting parts and there are parts that are not available on a 10 year old coach.

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #34 – October 08, 2012, 10:36:56 pm

Oh and if you are really going to use your coach you will drive more than 10K miles. The last trip I took was 7K alone.

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #35 – October 09, 2012, 12:05:38 am

Dave M, the election doesn't impact me either way.

John S, that helps. Is there a substantial benefit too having tags? I've read CCC, which is measurable, and stability, but how much stability and how is it measured? I'm more familiar with Cat motors, but I can guess that the ISM is smaller than the ISX which I just discovered on a Phenix. I'll assume a ISM is 400-500 hp. What other motors were available and should they be avoided?

My estimate is for 6 months- 182 days annually. I've traveled extensively from coast to coast, Yellowknife to Chiapas on wheels, I've even crossed the US a few times on bicycle, so I'll most likely be retracing old treks and visiting old friends. Are there a lot of people who put 20,000 on their coaches? From researching used vehicles I've notice that most travel half as much.

Thanks for all your help!

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #36 – October 09, 2012, 12:19:42 am

I always wished I could be like the folks above.. They have all the numbers layed out and are working up a plan. It's always worked out for me anyway that full timing is more of an art then a science. You have to like this life style or no matter of numbers will make the experience fulfilling. I would say this. If the numbers are the main issue then perhaps travel by car and stay in reasonable motels. I live in a 23 year old coach in a swamp so I'm probably not the sharpest tool in the shed but I cant ever imagine moving back into my house, I'm happy to rent to people who like living there. I would never be happy with a trailer. Even if it was a superwamperdyne airstream. These old Fortravel coaches are the best period...I'm sure the new ones are nice too,but they are beyond me means.I always say that "full timing is not for the faint of heart". I stand by that but wouldn't have it any other way. Good luck.....

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #37 – October 09, 2012, 06:43:39 am

Read the service contract posts. Most don't feel they are worth the money. Based on my experience, there is no comparison between depreciation in an Airstream and that in any motorhome, thanks to the lack of a drive train. I could tow an Airstream for 250K miles and sell it for top dollar based on its excellent condition. High mileage motorhomes have low value in spite of their million mile drive trains.

Sorry. I can't justify my FT. I once thought an Airstream was the top of the RV world. No more. In fact their is no comparison.

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #38 – October 09, 2012, 10:03:33 am

I am sure you already know this, the early year depreciation on a 2008 will be greater than that of a 2001. If you look at 18 yo coaches now, sold for approx $350K new and are now fetching in the neighborhood of $23K+ gives you about $18K/yr "average", but the early years of those coaches were much higher and have now slowed to a trickle compared to earlier years.
To fully appreciate early depreciation,

, go to the FOT website and look at the 2009 -2011 units available. Huge hits on depreciation. An example is the recently sold 2009 Nimbus CE Quad Slide, Stock #6502C with 22,993 miles on it. The price was cut from 435K to 375K and it finally sold. -65K just to move it. Not sure of the new price on that one but probably in the $750K range. Fuzzy math?, down $375K. $375K/23Kmiles = depreciation of $16.30/mile (or, using 10Kmiles/year = $163,000 for the year). Add, fuel, maintenance, insurance, service contract, camping fees, storage, etc, etc, etc. the cost?

In the end, my guess is at least around $20.00/mile for a new coach.

The global economy certainly affects this market and YMMV.
Not sure I have all the numbers exactly correct but go over them and let us know, or hopefully someone will.
Good luck,

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #39 – October 09, 2012, 11:57:00 am

spot on - If you are a cash (or home equity) buyer, good deals are around the 11-12 year old mark, still pretty current, but financing these units via "normal" sources more challenging. that would put 2001 at the top of my list, good quality, single slide with most of the bugs worked out, modern engine w/o hassle of DEF, great parts and service support available, pretty far down the depreciation curve, but still valuable enough you could paint/headlights/floor/etc. without feeling really stupid about it.

Or you could wait for a peach to fall into your lap like Kent Speers did....

:-)

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #40 – October 09, 2012, 06:47:06 pm

Thanks for the acknowledgement.

The only thing I can add is don't worry about the "Age Restrictions" unless you are buying into a RV Resort. This is my second 1993 Foretravel. The first one, a U225 that is now owned by Dave and Dolly Cobb, had the original exterior, no paint, just decals. I was never refused or even question about its age at any RV park nor have I been questioned about my current 1993, U300.

I wouldn't trade my 93, U300 for any newer coach. It has all of the bells and whistles to make it comfortable and serving us incredibly because it is "cheap to keep" due to its lack of electronics. It has been almost trouble free for two years and 30,000 miles. Buy one well cared for early 90's U300 for around $30,000, add a new factory paint job and interior and appliance upgrade for another $30,000 and for $60,000 you have a top of the line bus that you can drive comfortably for many years. Plus hundreds of people will stop to ask you what it is and tell you how unique and cool it is.

I'm not sure a U300 will pull the van/mc combo without a strain, it has 350 hp, but if you are willing to go easy on the hills, it should be acceptable and for the price its hard to beat. We just came back from a trip through the Rockies and the slowest we slowed to crossing the continental divide multiple times was 38 mph pulling a heavily loaded Subaru Outback weight around 4,000 lbs. Our Jake Brake didn't heat up at all even on a 9% grade and kept us at 65 mph with only an occasional touch of the service brakes.

You have lots of choices. Just make it a well cared for Foretravel.

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #41 – October 10, 2012, 02:23:49 am

andyR I'm not a full timer just a guy who would like to spend time away from the heat of Florida in a different way. I have property in the north but I'm feeling a bit restless so I thought to investigate my options, starting from a suggestion that I look at Foretravel coaches for the QC. I'm not retired but can work from any location as long as I can communicate. So I may not be able to live in a swamp but living anywhere in particular wasn't my intention. I can spend as much staying still as I can traveling so the cost isn't a priority, not having to wrench on my rig would be nice, though I'm fully capable.

Amos.harrison, I get the comparison of an AS to a motorhome, and I'm not seeking justifications, I know it's about the carnival ride. Most difficult issue is having it all. The heavy Toad presents a problem, but being without my toys would diminish the adventure, so I'm systematically creating an ideal ride that will do it all. I apologize if my questions seem intrusive, they're not meant to be.

Rick, thanks for the break-down.15% markup on a used rig is normal, leaving the dealer wiggle room and the customer happy that he got a bargain, perhaps the buyer left something on the table, and 18 or 20% was the actual bottom line price? ;-)

Tim Fiedler, I'm not financing another thing...come spring and the creek don't rise. You guys are killing me with all these Acronyms. ;-) w/o DEF? I did figure out what FOT is though.
Nice restoration! Can you put a larger engine in her?

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #42 – October 10, 2012, 07:55:16 am

DEF diesel exhaust fluid

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #43 – October 12, 2012, 09:52:14 am

I understand about being able to work on the road as long as there is communications. I think a FT is one of the best longest running coach out on the road that has a manufacturer still in business and supporting all the coaches. If it was me, I would look at three types of coaches. One is FT, second is the Blue Bird ( but they are out of business and the newer Mseries have issues) and finally a Liberty or Marathon Conversion of a Prevost. There is nothing else that will be able to match. I know that Newell exists too and they are a great coach but they are more expensive than a FT and less than a Bus Conversion and if I was going to spend a bit more money I would get a bus.

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #44 – October 12, 2012, 10:29:50 pm

John, I'm glad to see that you rank our top two picks the same as we do. We're really not looking at anything but a Foretravel and possibly a 'Bird. The price of a coach is what the buyer and seller agree it is, but from what I'm seeing I can get a newer Foretravel for less money than a 'Bird, and save money on fuel as I drive it, too. When we're ready to buy we'll see what's available and what sort of deal we can make. My prediction is that we'll end up with a Foretravel, but time will tell. I am spending more time here than on WOG, which kind of tells you which way I prefer.

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #45 – October 13, 2012, 02:48:28 am

As someone had suggested i went to virtual FOT site to see what I could find. Naturally the new coaches got my attention and I was able to see what the latest had to offer and what might not be included in previous years. The brown paint on the 2010 Phenix caught my eye, it seemed understated, which I prefer. As a part timer it's more than I'm willing to expend, considering it will lose most of it's value sitting idle half the year. I looked at the only 2007 they have, which seems to be the right age and level of depreciation and still be new enough to require less service, generally. Foretravel Texas

I'm not that attracted to the blue paint, though I can live with it, I do like the 2 chairs with seat belts in the lounge. I think in such a narrow space having the ability to face different directions could be useful, I really don't use couches and I'm not looking for a second bed. Chairs with a table is also preferred, being able to move furniture is a plus. I like the earth tones so the interior colors will do, except the small couch and chair fabric. Two slides are half the trouble I suspect. I'm not sold on two baths, and I would prefer a king size bed, which i suspect could be swapped. I don't know what dis/or advantage a rear bathroom offers. I like a passenger Nav/GPS system. I will be adding solar to any unit that I acquire so the capability of this or any unit to receive solar would be required. I would be adding surveillance and security cameras and any monitoring equipment that it may lack. It would have adequate power, the mileage is right, the price is too high, but that's negotiable. What am I missing? Any thoughts?

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #46 – October 13, 2012, 04:02:29 am

John S, I know two folks that have Prevost conversions, one is larger with a driver who sits lower than the house, and the other has a level floor and chrome sides. I could be mistaken but I think the Prevost are higher and have larger basements and are 45' long. I shy away from items who's creators are out of business so the Blue Birds wouldn't be on my list.

I'm beginning to reassess my position. Perhaps towing some sort of vehicle, it could be a trailer with a jeep, bikes and toys rather than a van. Although it looked good on paper.
I'm just exploring my options at this point. Basically if i could just carry a bike I could rent anything in most locations and always have some secondary transportation when needed and not tow a thing, that seems like freedom from this vantage point. ;-)

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #47 – October 13, 2012, 06:07:33 pm

I've gone back and read all the postings on this thread and have observed a pattern that is telling me that you are looking thru a window (of opportunity) that best represents an "ideal world." Your focus on costs seem to be more important than about safety, fun & enjoyment. What will you do (assuming you do purchase a motorcoach) if all of a sudden one of your estimated costs takes a leap upward? Will you have to stop driving and or living in your coach? Or will you do what the majority of RVers do...just keep on enjoying the lifestyle? I see a lot of emphasis on cost for depreciation. Nothing wrong with that, so long as it doesn't cloud your thinking, should you become involved in a trade-up. Why? Because when you trade-up, the best thing you can possibly do is to tell the dealer (seller) that your current motorcoach has a dollar value (on paper) of $1.00. That's right, ONE DOLLAR! Now he'll never agree to that, but you want that number to be as LOW as you can get it—all the while—applying the difference to the final sales price to the NEW (to you) RV (motorcoach). [That tactic lowers the sales tax as well as the fees you pay annually for tags]. This is something a lot of people have never heard of, but that a savvy dealer will work with you on.

Juan, I think you should go take a test drive in a Foretravel coach. In fact, try to do several different models/years. Trying to find the "perfect coach" by asking all these questions and sharing your mathematical calculations may be an effort in futility...till you at least have had a chance to see and experience first hand some of the features that a Foretravel coach has and what they mean. You've gotten a lot of "opinions" from those who have a lot of experience, but there are features on a Foretravel (almost any year) that you will probably never find in any other brand of motorcoach. You need to EXPERIENCE

for yourself the value of the transmission retarder. Perhaps you have had experience with a Jake Brake. These are two totally different animals. I will never again own a motorcoach that doesn't have a Retarder, no matter the cost! Another (lesser known) experience is try driving down a paved road/highway that has a dirt shoulder with a 4-6 inch drop off traveling at 35-50MPH. Be sure the entire right side of the coach is "in the dirt" and now steer back onto the roadway without slowing down. That experience should NOT be tried in any other vehicle (except maybe a Newell or some models of Prevost). That experience alone may answer any/all questions that you have about safety and stability of a Foretravel coach. Doing that even in some automobiles could result in disaster. It definitely will in just about every motorhome on the road today (except those I've mentioned above).

Bottom Line: Where you are at right now, you should be out test driving a few of these coaches. Figuring out how much a mile it costs (including things like extended service contracts, etc.) is like putting the cart before the horse. Now, what if something about a Foretravel is NOT for you, then what? It's good to ask these questions, many of which probably would have been better done AFTER your test drive(s).

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #48 – October 13, 2012, 06:42:28 pm

Quote from: JuanHappicampa – October 13, 2012, 04:02:29 am

Perhaps towing some sort of vehicle, it could be a trailer with a jeep, bikes and toys rather than a van. Although it looked good on paper.

Before becoming a full-time RVer, I had looked into all sorts of ways to haul both my Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland as well as a little Gem Car (electric vehicle) I owned. When I found what I was almost certain the right unit to make everything work (Haul Everything Trailer) no longer in business, I mentioned my "great find" to some good friends who worked for Good Sam. Luckily, they pointed out something I never thought of, that I'll pass on to you as well. While I was devastated, I very quickly found it to be the best advice one could ever hope for. "When you pull into an RV park, where do you park that trailer?" "How much extra will it cost you if the only space available is the RV parking space next to you?" Many RV parks simply have NO PLACE for you to park that trailer, unless you never unhook it from your motorhome. Then that means you can't remove any of it's contents (motorcycle, car, other toy).

Re: Considering a FT - coming up to speed on models and capabilities

Reply #49 – October 13, 2012, 07:55:51 pm

It is good to see you John, Long time no hear from you. I sure agree on the trailer issue. For me, I tow a Ford Pickup with my ATV in the 8' bed, works great and if I get into a corner, I can unook and drive out of it and rehook up. Works for me anyway.
Take care John.
Dave M

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