New purchase ? (Really used)

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Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #25 – July 24, 2013, 12:47:24 pm

Very livable without a slide; even better with a slide or two. You'll simply have to decide what that extra room is worth to you. When we were looking, a slide added $30-$50 k to the price. Not worth it to us, because we mostly travel in it (as opposed to living in it for long periods).

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #26 – July 24, 2013, 02:32:39 pm

Having started RVing in a 1987 Toyota Sunrader class C, we find the Foretravel without a slide to be extremely livable! Besides, I tend to worry about that unnecessary complicated stuff failing at the worst possible moments! The Sunrader was extremely small except when looking in the mirror when it looked like a really huge fiberglass egg. Now I've hauled all kinds of loads on tractor trailers, even oversize loads, but that huge fiberglass egg sitting on that Toyota chassis made me real nervous.

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #27 – July 24, 2013, 03:40:42 pm

The "Grand Villa" models with the sloped (streamlined) front have pilot and co-pilot sitting at the same point; bus-style coaches generally put the co-pilot aft a foot or so. This can be a PITA while traveling in terms ot talking back and forth. The aft-mounted co-pilot seat does make a nice lounge while stopped; but you can't see the TV set very well from there.

Front-entry (bus style blunt nosed) can be a PITA to load as you have to tote everything halfway down the coach to where you'll begin to store things you buy frequently (like groceries). Mid-entry is very handy; we generally just throw things aboard until we can't fit any more and then we climb in and just start putting it away.

The streamlined front models will get slightly better fuel mileage than the bus-style models. No door next to the co-pilot can mean less wind noise while traveling.

Rear radiator models make access to the engine for changing belts and repairs more difficult. Side radiator models are more complex with hydraulic-operated cooling fans. You can tell a coach with a side radiator by the vents at the rear along the side (beneath the bedroom windows); these also have vents in the back to allow the cooling air to flow through.

There are some side-aisle models out there although we felt that storage was somewhat reduced (closets, etc.) They made the bedroom much more private, however.

The U225 and U240 do not have air bags but instead have a mechanical suspension. If the air bags make traveling better then they must be truly stupendous because the suspension in our U225 is incredibly comfortable on the road. The air bag models use the air bags to level the unit while camped; U225 and U240 have hydraulic jacks for leveling. We discovered that they can lift wheels completely off the ground (unlike the air bags) for repairs and maintenance. This also makes it possible to camp level on some pretty steep slopes.

If we move "up" in a FT to a bus-style it would probably be to a U270. If we move "up" in a Grand Villa style it would be to a U280.

Craig

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #28 – July 24, 2013, 05:35:53 pm

We've full timed for 10 years without a slide.

No divorce in sight... ;o)

best, paul

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #29 – July 24, 2013, 05:38:45 pm

thanks again for the input, speaking MPG ( I know if I have to ask,,,,,,)

I guess 6-8 is the range but wouldn't a 36' get better milage than a 40'

Do any models stand out or are they all about the same.

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #30 – July 24, 2013, 06:19:47 pm

Budget will drive slide vs no slide. North of 80k and up for a slide coach, lots of nice stuff below 50k in non slide.

This topic has one or two previous threads, use search function to find those threads.

Had coaches without slide or aquahot, have both now, won't go back

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #31 – July 24, 2013, 07:03:17 pm

Quote from: LI_Pets – July 24, 2013, 06:23:07 am

Still confused after reading all the spec's what the real difference is between the U270, u295, u320.

When we first got our U270, I poured over the spec sheets trying to figure out the differences between the 270 and the 295. I went through the spec sheets and a line by line comparison for 1999 model year. Here's what I came up in a quote which may be of help.

Quote from: acousticart – September 01, 2011, 04:24:25 pm

Funny you should ask that... Just last night I was going through some hardcopys of the 1999 U270, U295, and U320 spec sheets with a highliter. Having just bought a U270 (3602 WTFE), but now in the stage of impatiently waiting to take possesion, I was curious to see what I would be missing out on. Sounds morbid I know... but since I know the chassis and construction essential bits are the same, and we definitely bought the best we could afford just to get into a Foretravel at all, I am quite happy with the feature set of our Foretravel. Many of the differences we be negated by the time we finish tinkering... but not all.

In the order they are listed...
Under standard chassis features;
U295 & U320 has 6 Alcoa aluminium wheels instead of 4. The inners of the rear axle are steel on the U270.
U295 & U320 has a 160 amp vs. 130 amp alternator on the U270.
U295 & U320 has chrome mirrors standard, option on the U270.

Under Exterior features;
Air hose for tire service. Missing on the U270...
Door bell. (this once I can live without!)
Keyless remote entry on door and storage bay. (this one hurts a bit, having been spoiled my a two paging alarm system on my now departed car)
Parallel Storage bay doors (bus style). I wish ours had this! It was one of the things that had me lusting after an American Eagle for awhile... not needing any clearance to open the cargo doors is a nice plus, not to mention giving more wide open access.
Shelf in fresh water bay and LP compartment. (no biggie to me)
Slide out cargo tray standard. (fortunately ours has a full size Joey bed that comes out either side, perhaps added later or as an option when new)
Under cockpit features;
Audit 8t8 system monitor with Electronic outdoor thermometer and compass, vs. Audit 9T6 system monitor on the U270 (no therm. or compass)
Cell Phone antenna & connection
Illumination on the dash panel and shifter panel instead of just the dash on the U270.
Under Livability Features;
Bedroom alarm clock. (this I can also live without!)
Bose Companion Surround Sound System (U295), Bose Lifestyle 25 Home Theater System with CD changer (U320)
Built in Safe
Chandler at dining table
Concealed Cabinet Door Hinges
Dometic 12 cu.ft. Side-by-side refer with built-in in ice maker, or 10 cu.ft. model with separate ice maker depending on floor plans.
Extra wide co-pilot seat, with electric foot rest on U320
Floor level accent lights
Generator Switch in bedroom
Gourmet kitchen faucet w/spray
Leather seats and sofa in U320
Recessed Gaggenau 2-burner cooktop (U320)
Slide out Shelf under kitchen sink
Solid Surface 2 compartment sink
Solid Surface Lavatory sink
Tip-out storage below sink
VCR eye
Window accent lighting
Under Heating/Cooling/Electrical Features
Aqua-Hot Hydronic heating, standard on U320, optional on U295, not available on U270
Freedom 25 heart interface on U295 vs. Freedom 20 Heart Interface on U270 (though ours has a Freedom Heart 10, what's up with that???), Freedom 2S Heart Interface on U320 (not sure if the "s" is a Typo in the Freedom 2S... maybe supposed to be a 5?)
Link 2000 battery monitor
10kw Powertech Diesel generator, vs 8kw in U270
22,000 BTU Automotive A/C vs 17,500 BTU in U270
42,000 BTU Automotive Heater/Defroster vs. 35,000 BTU in U270
Under Standard Weight Ratings;
GVRW U320 34,880lb., U295 33,000lb., U270 31,000lb.
GCWR is 10,000lbs higher than GVRW in each case.
Same capacities except that units with Hydronic heating have 194 gal. diesel instead of 148 gal., and they have a smaller 17 gal. Propane vs, the 42 gal standard in units with a propane furnace.

The popular options look to be the same for all units, except hose and shoreline reels are not available for the U270. What is a Smart Visor anyway?
I have only listed the differences from the 1999 brochures off of Barry's marvelous site. I think I got them all, feel free to correct me if I am wrong!
These are the 1999 brochures and the other years may differ somewhat...
Don

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #32 – July 24, 2013, 07:31:32 pm

We started looking at U270 34'. The engine, transmission and interior changes for 1999-2001 in the U320 models pushed us to 36' minimum. Most have slides. The bigger engine makes hill climbs and towing easier. Slides add complexity and weight. More slides, more parts to have problems with and more weight. Mileage is dependent on how you drive and the weight you are moving around. Our toad increases the total weight of the parade by about 9%. Milage difference toad/no toad is about 10%. Everyday milage is just under 8 but has been as high as low 9's over a couple thousand miles. At 55 mph (ish) easy to get 8.5 mpg.

Bottom line for us ... We really like the LR slide. We like the two windows in the BR that you get w/o a BR slide. 36' is so much bigger than what we have had that it seems like a palace. I can see the space/storage advantages of a 40'. Aquahot is amazing. I think if we were to want to upgrade at some point the U320 with a slide from 2001 or later will make it easier from a resale/trade perspective. We are more likely to keep this one and do the headlights and paint it up. Happy campers here. Very glad we went with the FT choices.

Roger and Susan

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #33 – July 24, 2013, 07:57:53 pm

Another consideration may be in 1999 the counter tops went to 36" from 34" in the kitchen. The windows are double pane. As for the slides there are lots of posts on the topic. We don't have them and don't miss them I sure if we had them they would be great but they come with more maintenance, more weight, less storage and less access to storage. They also are more congested when they are not deployed. So for a quick stop or while going down the road they have a little less space. They also add to the purchase price and to the resale price.

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #34 – July 24, 2013, 08:22:40 pm

I think you are on the right track, starting with a price in mind...then comparing what you can get for that amount.

When I bought my 1990, I looked at several 1988-1992s and made a big spreadsheet listing all the items I cared about. Diesel generator vs propane generator, gas oven or no oven, wide-body vs narrow, then I looked to compare all the differences and settled on the one I did. It was a U280 and I sort of accidentally discovered the wonderful 8-airbag suspension which all newer FTs have.

Then as it became time to upgrade, I did similar comparisons and learned of the newer things that weren't available in my previous price range. Dual pane windows (started around 95???), a retarder...with or without a joystick (I'll never be without that now, after having used one for 40,000 miles), 10 gallon water heater or Aqua-hot.

I have a slide, but if it had been up to me, It wouldn't have been an issue either way (ex-wife HAD to have it). But then I also wasn't concerned about resale as I had no plans to trade up and a slide definitely raises the resale to many buyers.

I laughingly refer to my U270 as a "base" or "cheap" Foretravel. I pretty much have the same chassis, a motor larger than many earlier FTs (400 HP)...but not as large as the U320s (450HP). It is shorter so I don't miss the extra 50 HP. Not as many mirrors or lights, but I think I have many of the U295 options that are valuable to me (keyless entry, joey beds (2), Splendide, etc). I have added a few more things like insta-hot, secondary water pump control... The biggie that I do want is full body paint. I really want to do that in my future when $20k of spare change surfaces.

With a $50-$75k budget, you should be able to find a great Foretravel. The cheapest, oldest, least-equipped Foretravel is still leaps and bounds over the competition. Just compare what you find on a spreadsheet and note what you don't want to live without. For me, it is simply the retarder and I appreciate the dual pane windows. Both my FTs have been 36', and the space has been fine for me. The people who had this coach were a party of three when they took it out, so they had FT of Tennessee create a door on he toilet/sink area for privacy. That may be an issue to you. Some models have a private privvy, many don't.

Whatever you want, just learn what is available and choose the options you personally find important. While I don't have a Bose Stereo in my coach, I don't miss it...but I will confess to buying a 1997 Acura in the past primarily for its Bose stereo. LOL

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #35 – July 24, 2013, 09:51:27 pm

Great forum, tks acousticart, I was looking for that.

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #36 – July 24, 2013, 10:03:17 pm

In rolling hills and no wind I typically get 12mpg or so at 55mph in my 1999 40ft U320 while towing a Honda Element.

I usually don't travel faster than 62mph but I recently seemed to find a sweet spot at 65mph... More later.

best, paul

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #37 – July 24, 2013, 10:49:32 pm

Quote from: LI_Pets – July 24, 2013, 05:38:45 pm

I guess 6-8 is the range but wouldn't a 36' get better milage than a 40'

That's probably a good guess for the U270, U295, U320. Some of people with the smaller, lighter GV coaches report much better fuel mileage.

Our experience:

1997 U295 36' Cummins C8.3-325 with Banks Stinger (340-375 HP ?)
Coach weight as we travel is about 28,000#
7 mpg +- at 65 mph towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x4 at 4,100# with moderately aggressive tires

Mileage might look a little higher if we made allowance for fuel consumed by the generator. We use cruise control most of the time and don't take any special care to conserve fuel. Other folk who report mileage generally report 8 mpg for similar coaches with electronic engines.

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #38 – July 25, 2013, 01:35:40 am

We had a great 1997 36ft U295. Now we have a great 1999 40ft U320

4 ft doesn't even begin to describe the differences between our 2 FT's.

best, paul

Quote

36' is so much bigger than what we have had that it seems like a palace. I can see the space/storage advantages of a 40'.

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #39 – July 25, 2013, 07:11:26 am

I agree with Paul. I went from 36 to 42 and added a tag. The difference is night and day especially for longer trips and stays.

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #40 – July 25, 2013, 08:48:09 am

I can only speak for our experience and preferences:

We have a 40' U320 with the 400 hp M11 and get (overall, including generator and Aqua-Hot usage and towing our car and generally driving between 65 and 70 MPH on the freeway) about 8 MPG. For us it is ideal, because we still have only two axles (no extra expenses with a tag), no slides to cause extra headaches, plenty of room (although it's amazing how soon even a 40' rig can begin to fill up) and the power (particularly the torque) of the M11.

We would not want to go back to a smaller rig, or one with a smaller engine.

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #41 – July 25, 2013, 09:28:22 am

Anyone know what year(s) they started electronic engine components?

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #42 – July 25, 2013, 12:51:07 pm

The Cummins 8.3 ISC's were introduced in the 99' model year in the U270's and U295's and were the electronic version updates of the Cummins 8.3c which was used in previous model years. The other engines such as the M11, I believe had electronics earlier... Our coach was built in August or September of 98' but is a 99' model year with the ISC.

It is a great forum! No joke, one of the best things about owning Foretravel... All the helpful people who love these coaches and want to keep them on the road. I want to add, that although oak in the hierarchy of Foretravel models is the low man on the totem pole, we love the oak cabinets in our coach. Nor do we pine for a slide or two... the awesome storage and carrying capacity, the transmission retarder (it only took a test drive to make me a believer on that account), the air disc brakes that hardly need to be used because of the retarder... those are all things that are not sacrificed by buying the entry level Foretravel. You can get more bells and whistles for less money with an SOB (some other brand), but you won't get the quality, the retarder, or even the Air Disc brakes with the top of the line from other coach builders (a few have Air Disc brakes, but not many)... and that doesn't even take into account the outboard mounted 8 air bag suspension. Monaco does have their own version of that last one on their high end coaches, but my reading of it is that theirs is not nearly as effective as Foretravel's. Bottom line, for us the entry level Foretravel beats the high end of the line of the other brands. That doesn't mean the other brands are worthless or unusable by any means. It is just about where you want to place your priorities. I can add all the bells and whistles that makes sense to us. That said, the ones that came with our 99' U270 still feel pretty awesome to start with.

When I go to RV shows, I always check out the bones of the coaches... I look at the engine carriages and see the 3/16" or at best 1/4" thick "C" channel steel that makes up the framing bolted together with slotted holes as opposed to the 1/4" and 3/8" square tubbing that Foretravel uses for engine and suspension structural framing bolted together with welded sub assemblies. In spite of that heavy steel frame work, the semi-monoque design lets the Foretravel coach weigh less and carry more in most cases. I guess I am biased though

Good luck in your search!
Don

Quote from: LI_Pets – July 24, 2013, 09:51:27 pm

Great forum, tks acousticart, I was looking for that.

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #43 – July 25, 2013, 06:27:02 pm

I looked at the spec. sheets on the 270's and 295's for 1998 and was amazed to see over $70K difference in retail pricing when they were new. All those upgrades cost a bunch, and even more on the 320's. I see way less difference in prices between the first two model's on the resale now 15 years later. Glad we found our 295, and we do miss things that our older 93 U225 had as standard back when it was built.

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #44 – July 25, 2013, 07:31:18 pm

Don (AKA Acousticart) knows more about the undercarriage of a Foretravel than most of us; he has completely re-made his and posted photos here to prove it.

I've also looked closely at SOBs at RV shows and wondered how long they'd last and - maybe more importantly - who they could find who would work on them. I always thought that lifting my bed in order to climb into the engine bay to work on things was a PITA until I looked at a Tiffin that apparently makes you work on the engine while under the rear bathroom.

Craig

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #45 – July 25, 2013, 07:42:45 pm

Quote from: LI_Pets – July 25, 2013, 09:28:22 am

Anyone know what year(s) they started electronic engine components?

I guess you are talking about Cummins engines but just for the sake of information our 1993 Detroit 6V92 is electronically controlled. They were only available in the Grand Villa U300 however so if you don't like the slanted front end this knowledge will not be very helpful.

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #46 – July 25, 2013, 09:05:36 pm

Quote from: Kent Speers – July 25, 2013, 07:42:45 pm

however so if you don't like the slanted front end this knowledge will not be very helpful.

I may be having second thoughts on that slanted front, I read where an owner claimed better MPG.

Moreover, until we see both in person I'll reserved decision.

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #47 – July 25, 2013, 09:08:24 pm

Quote from: wa_desert_rat – July 25, 2013, 07:31:18 pm

a Tiffin that apparently makes you work on the engine while under the rear bathroom.

Craig

What about Tiffens, I thought they were worth consideration?

Your thoughts.

In fact through Newmars in that comparison I suppose

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #48 – July 25, 2013, 09:40:06 pm

Quote from: LI_Pets – July 25, 2013, 09:05:36 pm

I may be having second thoughts on that slanted front, I read where an owner claimed better MPG.

Moreover, until we see both in person I'll reserved decision.

I loved my U280 Unihome "slanted front", but there is another consideration due to the layout. The driver/passenger seats are both about a foot higher than the main floor in a Unihome, so it is a little more awkward to turn those chairs and consider them part of the "living room". Usually, there is a couch on one side and two chairs on the other side in the living room area of the U280 series. The passenger seat actually makes 3 on that side.

When you examine the Unicoach, you see that the passenger and driver seats are on the same level and feel like part of the living room. It made me feel like I was getting an extra 2-3 feet when I moved from a 36' Unihome to a 36' Unicoach, plus the mid-entry door and stairwell isn't "in the way" between the living room and kitchen.

Mind you, it is all a matter of taste, but the two styles use space differently. After having both, I now also like the TV in the high position better than when it was down between the seats.

Re: New purchase ? (Really used)

Reply #49 – July 25, 2013, 11:02:22 pm

We too have switched from a Grand Villa Unihome to the Unicoach. Same 36' length, but we feel we gained 4' with the flat floor, and no nose. We found a rare mid-door coach, and so the drive and passenger seats are almost in line with each other. Great for chatting while traveling. We also have much better views with the front windows coming down to closer to the floors.

All that is good, but then the flat front issues. I miss the sloped windshield when the wind blows, and the way the rain and bugs deflect. The sun shade is harder to install, as it falls off the vertical window, and laid on the sloped one. We traveled some work zones last month and I cringed at having rock damage to the $ 1,200 per side windshields.

We like the mid door stairs, easy loading, and better nest for the passenger feet, slippers, dog bed, purse, computer and stuff.

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