2003 slide bladder problem

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2003 slide bladder problem

October 20, 2013, 06:38:52 pm

Last night we stayed at Buckhorn Lake Resort in Kerrville, TX. It got down to about 40 degrees. This morning when we tried to bring in the slide, the bladder would not deflate. Pat turn on the HWH panel key for the slide and the light started to blink.... then it went out. I was standing outside and noticed that the bladder did not deflate. Repeated this process and still didn't deflate. Pat then turned the ignition key on, let the relays click and turned the key off again. Then tried to retract the slide. The bladder deflated and all was well.

Any ideas of what happened? Cold related?

Also, if the bladder would not deflate what is the procedure for getting it to deflate? I've attached a diagram and pic of the bladder valves as a reference.

Thanks in advance.

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #1 – October 20, 2013, 06:51:59 pm

I just had that panic right after my slide was worked on in June. I was in Sturgis and it wasn't that cold. No reaction from it when I tried to deflate it. I turned the key back off and waited a terrifyingly long few seconds and when I tried it again, it worked just fine...and has since that one time. Ignition status had nothing to do with my 2002.

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #2 – October 20, 2013, 06:56:50 pm

Each time I read posts such as these I'm thankful we don't have slides!

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #3 – October 20, 2013, 07:09:49 pm

Quote from: George Hatfield – October 20, 2013, 06:38:52 pm

Last night we stayed at Buckhorn Lake Resort in Kerrville, TX. It got down to about 40 degrees. This morning when we tried to bring in the slide, the bladder would not deflate. Pat turn on the HWH panel key for the slide and the light started to blink.... then it went out. I was standing outside and noticed that the bladder did not deflate. Repeated this process and still didn't deflate. Pat then turned the ignition key on, let the relays click and turned the key off again. Then tried to retract the slide. The bladder deflated and all was well.

Any ideas of what happened? Cold related?

George,

Did you hear the aux compressor come on at all during this? The one time we had a no-deflate issue, it was because we'd forgotten to put the inline fuse for the compressor back in after changing the desiccant. The compressor appears to be required to deflate the bladders.

By "relay clicks" with ignition, do you mean the ABS sensor checks?

Michelle

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #4 – October 20, 2013, 07:15:40 pm

Yes, the clicks were from the ABS. I don't recall the air pump coming on. I'm normally outside watching the slide when we move it. Pat pushes the buttons. But I don't think it normally comes on when we move the slide either in or out. Often it will come on after we move the slide, but not during the process. Looking at the diagram it looks like the 12v powered valve might have malfunctioned or the system that turns it off and on. Another "go figure" moment.

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #5 – October 20, 2013, 09:04:22 pm

We have had similar problems for a year. Never the same thing exactly. Now sitting at FOT for ladies driving school and a new problem developed. Bladder deflated this time but the locks didn't all release. The top tried to go out but the bottom stayed put. Glad we are at FOT. Glad I saw what was happening before it self destructed.

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #6 – October 21, 2013, 05:31:53 pm

The slide worked 100% normally when we arrived in Las Cruces, NM this afternoon. Thanks to all for their input!

George

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #7 – October 21, 2013, 07:22:24 pm

Geez ... it's always somethin'!!

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #8 – October 21, 2013, 08:06:20 pm

on my 01, I can use the engine to build enough air to deflate the slide bladder. In fact I was told to start the engine prior to moving my slide in and out.

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #9 – October 21, 2013, 08:55:50 pm

From the diagram I posted with my initial question, it looks like there is an electrically controlled valve which controls inflation/deflation of the bladder. With NO power (12 volts) applied, the valve is open and air pressure (12psi) is applied to the bladder. When power is applied (i.e., when the HWH panel key is turned), the air supply is cut off and the bladder deflates. So I don't see how starting the engine would help. Also it does not look like the HWH air pump is needed to deflate the bladder. When we ran the slide out today, I listed for the pump. It did not come one.

My question is.... is there a vacuum pump somewhere that aids in getting the air out of the bladder?

George

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #10 – October 21, 2013, 09:18:21 pm

I ask James T. that question . his reply was . The 12 V compressor does double duty being activated with the HWH key on the vac side , and pressure otherwise . On my last three coaches , the 12 volt compressor came on shortly after the key was turned on at the HWH control panel .Has nothing to do with the big engine . While at HWH , they increased the run time on the vac side as the bladder was not completely deflated . Run time was reprogramed from six second to eighteen seconds . They said they wished FT would do it that way on all coaches . Results are , less slide chirping ( rubbing ) while going in or out . Brad Metzger

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #11 – October 21, 2013, 09:21:01 pm

I have been wondering about how the bladder deflates so fast ?
No doubt if your having issues mine will surely follow !

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #12 – October 21, 2013, 09:38:40 pm

The pressurized air goes through a Venturi that pulls the air out of the bladder. Works like a vacuum pump. If no air pressure it won't pull the air out. When that is going on it should drop the pressure enough to activate the 12v pump.

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #13 – October 21, 2013, 11:56:22 pm

I found this HWH manual on-line. Lots of good information. It is for the series 2000 system, but it might not apply completely to older coaches such as mine. Each page has a date on the lower right. One interesting page is the Room Extend Procedure and that page is dated 1Dec05. It states that there is a vacuum switch that monitors the slide bladder to ensure it is fully deflated. The manual does not explain in detail how the bladder system works, but it certainly states that the pump comes on during the movement of the slide in or out. I need to check this out and observe what actually happens on our coach. The more things go wrong, the more I learn!

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #14 – October 22, 2013, 05:38:38 am

There is someairrequired to get the vacuum. The engine can provide it in my year or the 12 volt. In fact the engine and the 12 volt work together.

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #15 – October 22, 2013, 06:46:40 am

Agree with John, having a 2001, I also start the engine (Dont think it is required, just makes me feel better), wither way have never had an issue with the seal operating, just the room moving due to the pump once and the 3,000 psi pressure switch, both have been replaced and happiness since.

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #16 – October 22, 2013, 07:15:28 am

If you are on shore power or generator running the big engine in only to make you feel good . The whole thing is ----a strong supply of 12 volt power is needed ----and it taxes your batteries otherwise . On my present coach it is not required since it has loads of battery depth . On the other coaches , 06 Phenix and the 2003--320 , I always had either the genny or shore power running so as to not strain the battery set up . But since I come from old school , I still run the genny or do it on shore power . Old folks and their old ways .

Brad Metzger

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #17 – October 22, 2013, 08:22:35 am

It states that there is a vacuum switch that monitors the slide bladder to ensure it is fully deflated.

There is a switch that senses vacuum. In an emergency you can loosen the fitting to release pressure then unplug the vac switch and use a paper clip to provide a ground to make the system think there is a vacuum so that the slide will come in.

Don't ask me what kind of mood I was in when I learned that little trick.

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #18 – October 22, 2013, 01:41:04 pm

per James Triana at Grandvention, when arriving at campsite, here is how he would set up and level

(I do this with engine running, since level system loves the air capacity from the engine.....)

Put on brake

Put out all slides before initiating leveling (Per James, If you level first, may change level of coach after extension)

DUMP air system to start leveling with coach as low to ground as possible

then hit the level buttons and let coach level itself.

At that point I shut off engine.

Different strokes for different folks, but that is the gist of those conversions at the GV.

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #19 – October 22, 2013, 06:35:41 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – October 22, 2013, 01:41:04 pm

per James Triana at Grandvention, when arriving at campsite, here is how he would set up and level....

2. Put out all slides before initiating leveling

Really?!

I'm so confused! $:-\$ Of course, that is my normal state... but here's my question nonetheless:

Couldn't I cause a problem - or potentially harm the slide room - by extending BEFORE leveling if the coach has pulled into a rather unlevel spot (I'm picturing one campsite in particular at Johnson's of St. Mary east of Glacier NP)?

I could have sworn that I understood from Tyle (when he gave us the new owner instruction) to level before extending the slide....

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – October 22, 2013, 01:41:04 pm

Per James, If you level first, may change level of coach after extension

And, if it does change the level of the coach, doesn't the HWH check every 30 minutes and re-level the coach if needed?

And, yes, on arrival we leave the engine running until leveled and the slide is out. And on departure we leave it connected to shore power until the slide room is retracted.

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #20 – October 22, 2013, 07:11:32 pm

Pat,

Just repeating James Triana at Grand Vention, up till I asked the question, I leveled and then put out slide.....

Works well for me, but usually if site is that out of level, coach will not level (another reason to level first, make sure coach has enough range to level itself.

I'm the reporter here, not the expert.....

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #21 – October 22, 2013, 07:35:51 pm

I'm a 1, 3, 4, THEN 2 kinda guy myself. Extending before lowering/leveling, I would envision the possibility of an "Excess Slope" light coming on and making me stop extending mid-stream.

I've been repeatedly told that stopping the extension/retraction mid-stream is very bad for the slide. No expert here either, but...I have had to get the slide synched back up before and I'd rather avoid that issue again. Seems a lot safer extending AFTER setting up.

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #22 – October 22, 2013, 10:50:06 pm

George think of it this way... as troubling and frustrating as slide issues are, today you made an old friend feel good

.... every now and then I dream of slide coach... but you helped reinforce why I settled for my old beat up 97 U320 no slide full bay coach

Thanks my friend....

Cheers

Ted

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #23 – October 22, 2013, 11:21:50 pm

Thanks Ted..... I'm always trying to do good things for you!

Tonight I stuck my head into my "electronics" bay and had Pat turn on the key of the HWH slide control panel (or whatever it is called). When she turned on the key, air was released from the bladder. I could hear it, but I could not feel where it was coming out of the air seal manifold assembly. The bladder deflated. The light stopped blinking and became solid. Then I had her turn off the key. I could hear the bladder inflating. I had her repeat this with the same result. The air pump did not come on. I do know it is working because it came on about 3 hours later for its usual 1.5 minutes every 24 hours or so. So either there is no vacuum to empty the bladder in my 2003 coach or it must develop by some means other than the HWH air pump.

Another question... The red pump light on the control panel indicates what? That the hydraulic pump is on? Or that the air pump is on? I'm thinking that it is the former.

Update.... Yesterday (10/26) we brought in the slide. The HWH air pump did not come on at all. It did come on several hours earlier, as it usually does every 24 hours or so, and for its usual 1.5 min. So it probably had plenty of air pressure when we closed the slide.

Sure glad we got the "self healing" option on our FT! Slide bladder problem... gone! Transfer switch problem.... gone! Amazing technology (LOL).

Update 2.... Today (10/30/13) be brought in the slide after the coach had set for 4 days. The bladder did not deflate when the slide control key was turned. However, it worked fine when we turned on the ignition key. The HWH air pump did come on, but that was a few minutes after the slide was in.

So if you ever have a problem bringing in the slide, turn on the ignition key and try again. Doing so activates the HWH system and evidently that is needed in some cases.

Key words: slide, bladder, HWH air pump

Re: 2003 slide bladder problem

Reply #24 – October 22, 2013, 11:27:54 pm

FWIW, here is a link to the HWH manuals on the subject. HWH Operators Manuals for Foretravel
My 2002 slide is covered under http://www.hwhcorp.com/ml24573.pdf
I would point out that the top of page 10 of that manual states "IMPORTANT: It is recommended to level the vehicle before extending the room."

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