Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

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Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #50 – December 10, 2013, 09:21:15 pm

2 years ago while we were in Nebraska our ice maker valve froze and broke. Luckily that morning when we left the coach I had turned off the water pump. When we came back later that afternoon it had warmed to 45 degrees. My wife turned on the water pump and hollered at me that there was water coming out from under the refrigerator. I was outside and hollered back at her to turn off the pump as I knew right away what had happened. This year I cut a piece of foam board to fit the power cord door and have a 60 watt bulb in there and also a 60 watt bulb over the water pump and so far no problems.

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #51 – December 10, 2013, 09:38:49 pm

Quote from: Johnstons – December 10, 2013, 09:00:13 pm

I will report that with the bitter cold single digits last night in Des Moines everything was fine this morning with the exception of the bathroom lavatory frozen, both hot and cold. It had to be below the floor so I guess 50 degrees isn't hot enough in the bay to keep the north side of the bay warm.

You may want to try fans in the basement to be sure the heat gets to the right places. The register fan may not be providing sufficient circulation. Also, verify that the frozen area is not inside a cabinet "upstairs." A closed cabinet on an outside wall can get very cold.

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #52 – December 10, 2013, 10:17:52 pm

Looks like the lavatory is right over the rear wheel. Not sure how the line is routed below the floor.

The cabinet was warm inside so it was definitely below somewhere. The lavatory is half way on the manifold ano nothing else was frozen so it wasn't there.

I bet turning up the aqua hot down there will solve it. The fan blows downward and probably just didn't run enough at the temp I had set in the bay.

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #53 – December 10, 2013, 10:21:53 pm

I took my sensor that is located in the water pump area and placed it on the floor so it is in the coldest area of the bay or you can also place it outside the bay and then it will really be in the cold air.

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #54 – December 10, 2013, 10:22:35 pm

Quote from: Johnstons – December 10, 2013, 09:00:13 pm

I will report that with the bitter cold single digits last night in Des Moines everything was fine this morning with the exception of the bathroom lavatory frozen, both hot and cold. It had to be below the floor so I guess 50 degrees isn't hot enough in the bay to keep the north side of the bay warm. I've been in the HWH shop all day today and it thawed out with no leaks. I will turn up the thermostat on the water bay before I leave here tomorrow. I am camped inside their warm shop tonight.

You just answered my question on how high the basement thermostat needs setting to prevent freezing in the bays. How cold was it?

Bob

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #55 – December 11, 2013, 02:43:07 pm

As an amusing aside to all this. I have a friend who is still at the Great Lakes navy base campground with a SOB. Monday night it was 45 deg inside and 60 deg in the bays, outside 2 deg. Slight imbalance in heater distribution. Said he is thinking of moving downstairs!

Keith

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #56 – December 11, 2013, 09:50:20 pm

We were at 0 degrees last night and a couple of nights ago -10 degrees no problems

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #57 – January 29, 2014, 11:16:30 am

My basement is staying 45 on both sides in the back 58 in the middle and 73 in the front where inverter and agua hot is. Coach is toasty 74 thru out dispel side running maybe total time of 25 min per hour 5 outside

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #58 – January 29, 2014, 08:52:11 pm

-10 Monday night and Tuesday night, we have left there for warmer climates, are east of Kansas City and right now 34 degrees, looking forward to getting back to Florida

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #59 – January 31, 2014, 12:13:02 pm

Georgia is expieriencing a very cold winter so far. I have done a good job keeping the coach warm. I wish I could say the same for my basement.
We were gone a couple of hours yesterday, and when we walked back into the house heard water running. Found the basement somewhat flooded. Spent the evening getting up water. Glad we were only out a couple of hours. Could have been alot worse.
I am curious how those with heaters in the pump compartment get them in sitting up right. I bought one but would have had to place it on a block of wood or something to keep it level. I instead put a 100W bulb in there. Anyone who could please post a pic.

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #60 – January 31, 2014, 01:21:45 pm

Jerry and Nanci,
Were you running your furnaces? This should have protected you. Could it have just been a water leak that could have occurred anytime?

To answer your question, I used a bracket to mount under the water heater, angled down. I think I have more space there than you due to my 6 gallon water heater(6 gallons).
Two things to watch for:
1. Being too close to something and burning or melting it (not to mention a fire).
2. Electrical shock from a 120VAC device below a water heater (ie leaks) and near pressurized water plumbing (spray).

To address item 1, I did a test with the heater running continuously for several hours and monitored the process. That gave me the confidence it was far enough away.
To address item 2, I put a GFI outlet in the circuit. The outlet in the compartment (closest to water heater) is not on the bathroom's GFI circuit on my coach.

Because I live in Idaho now I have a permanently installed system with an thermal switch mounted on the end of a chord where I can place it right on the water pump head. I also have a remote wired thermometer in the same location. I used a two gang box with the GFI on one side and a light switch on the other. The light switch bypasses the themoswitch for testing. I have two of these systems installed: one for water pump, the for sewer drain area. I got the thermoswitches by busting apart two of these: Amazon.com: Farm Innovators TC-3 Cold Weather Thermo Cube Thermostatically which I purchased at Home Depot.

An alternative device might be the power chord type of heaters for pipes: Amazon.com: Easy Heat AHB-019 Cold Weather Valve and Pipe Heating Cable, 9 feet: Would work for tight spaces, already has a thermoswitch, and no fire hazard. It would rest on the bottom (coldest area) so I would think a fan would be unnecessary.

P.S. I forgot to mention I had to disassembly the heater to make sure the screws for the bracket didn't damage anything.

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Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #61 – January 31, 2014, 01:36:26 pm

I had to move my coach from its usual storage site due to some work that the property owner was doing. I am pretty confident that I had drained all the water from the system and filled the traps with antifreeze so two nites not plugged in with heaters hopefully did no damage. In normal times I would not have been so thorough in making sure system was dry but I am glad I did this year. Should I move to Alaska where it is warmer ?

And BTW, without block heater but with boost the old Cummins fired up on third turn this AM at about 25 degrees after overnite of 15 or so.

Gary B

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #62 – January 31, 2014, 01:59:33 pm

A good practice is to always turn off the water pump when leaving the coach. Then if something goes awry you will have a lot less mess to clean up.

Roland

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #63 – January 31, 2014, 05:25:36 pm

I second that, don't ask me how I know!
Richard B

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #64 – January 31, 2014, 08:06:05 pm

FWIW - I winterized this year but for learning purposes I kept two of the 200 watt electric heaters running, one on each side of the bay. Inside un-heated shop that generally doesn't get below 10 degrees the two heaters didn't keep it from freezing in the bay. (Furnace not running but inside kept around 50 degrees with a electric heater.) As a side note, heaters with electronic controls don't come back on by themselves if the power goes off.

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #65 – February 03, 2014, 06:42:49 pm

John,
What I found with the busted pipe in my basement (my home) was the insulation had dropped and the air got to the pipe.
The odd thing about all this is the basement was warm and 1/3 of the pipe was exposed. I am not sure I will ever understand this.
I will be glad to see spring.

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #66 – November 30, 2014, 08:39:34 pm

We've been consistently below zero (including a few days that didn't get above 0F, last night was -17F and tonights supposed to be -20F) at night here without any sort of letup and I've found another weak spot in the Foretravel cold weather armor.

The first thing that I've had freeze solid so far has been the fresh water fill pipe that runs underneath the black and gray water tanks and basically gets no heat, being sandwiched between the bottom of the tanks and the floor. I was aware that this was going to be a problem area and had fished a piece of 1/2" PEX over the top of the tanks but never bothered to hook up the new line until today when it froze solid. It is difficult to warm up the fresh water fill pipe so I just cut it off and used shark bite couplings to attach the new pipe and heat traced everything. Heat tracing is pretty much a necessity if you are going to be in sub-zero temperature for an extended duration.

Also the plug in thermostats that I bought become a bit flaky and return to their original settings of 62F occasionally which isn't warm enough to keep everything from freezing in the bays once it gets below -10F for awhile. When it is that cold, I just plug the Lasko heaters straight into the receptacles and let them run nonstop.

When I head home for Christmas, I'm going to do a much better job of running all new heat trace to cover everything in the bays, including the waste water valves and pipes. They have not frozen solid but they are slushy when you initially start to dump the tanks and will need some additional heat and insulation if it gets much colder.

Also, at subzero temperatures, you can forget about starting the engine without running the engine block heater all night. Turning it on 2 hours before you are ready to go won't work.

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #67 – November 30, 2014, 08:52:11 pm

I woulda been ready to go (south) about 50 degrees ago!

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #68 – November 30, 2014, 09:09:18 pm

We plan to visit Kansas City, MO, for Christmas and Billings, MT, for New Years. We bought the FT so we could go north to visit family any time of the year. We've done a similar trip three times in the past and had experiences similar to those of rsihnhold. We've not had any freeze damage yet.

I will run a couple of 200W heaters constantly in the basement when the temperature is below freezing for extended periods of time. That will apply whether we are moving or parked. I'll check temperatures in the bays and use bigger/more heaters if required. I don't use thermostats on the basement heaters. If it's cold enough to require a heater, it will run constantly. I'll also adjust house furnace thermostats so that the rear propane furnace runs regularly because it provides heat to the basement.

Circulation of air in the basement is important. The air stratifies. I've observed temperatures near 70F at the top of a bay and near 20F on the floor of the bay. Freezing problems are often very localized.

I agree that leaving the block heater on for several hours is a requirement for reliable starting of the big engine in temperatures below 25F.

Also, be sure to check and adjust tire pressures appropriately if you plan to drive in cold temperatures. Pressures will drop as temperatures drop. (Yes, I've aired up the tires at 0F on a cold morning on the plains of Kansas.)

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #69 – November 30, 2014, 09:44:42 pm

How do you deal with the condensation inside the coach in cold weather? The temperature of the fiberglass skin and the window glass is below the dew point. Condensate runs down the inside of the walls and saturates the insulation until it soaks through the wood paneling starting at the bottom of the wall and then progressing upward, most noticeably along the diagonal members of the aluminum skeleton inside the wall. The windshield will have a thick layer of frozen condensate on the inside of it by morning. Do you guys run dehumidifiers or something?... If so how do you deal with all those nosebleeds? ...just wondering

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #70 – November 30, 2014, 09:54:26 pm

Robert, when it is going to be below 32, we turn on our 200 watt Lasko personal heaters. We think it hard to protect difficult to reach areas so we use four heaters (two on each side) to better insure that all water area are protected. Since we are in our motorhome, we choose to turn them on and off ourselves. Four heaters draw less than 7 amps and we plug them into an outlet that is never on inverter to protect from drawing house batteries if shore power is lost.

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #71 – November 30, 2014, 10:36:52 pm

If, as it seems , the posters here are on shore power I might install battery heaters.

Always thought about using a second layer on non dual pane windows.

Older ftx's had a roll up Mylar shade next to the glass that helped greatly. Then lined heavy draw shades.

We seem to be pushing the limits on rving.

Which is good.

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #72 – November 30, 2014, 11:31:00 pm

As we are dry campers, on thing I have done on the Lazy Daze and one Sprinter was to add a line from the hot water line furthest from the water heater back to the fresh water tank, with a selinoid valve in line. This gave us hot water without running water down the drain. Once on each rig, the valve got left open longer than it should have and we ended up with the fresh water tank warmed (not hot). This may give a pretty large warm body in the basement if needed. Just a thought.

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #73 – December 01, 2014, 12:08:07 am

Regarding toyman's suggestion: using the water heater to heat the fresh water tank sounds like a great way to heat the basement. The water heater can provide a lot of heat and the fresh water tank can distribute it throughout the basement. With a three way heater, you could heat the basement with electricity, propane, or engine heat.

Regarding Scott's question about condensation: We've not had big problems with condensation. We do have double pane windows which helps. Leaving a ceiling vent slightly open and the small window near the passenger's chair slightly open have seemed to help get moisture out of the coach. You lose some heat, but you gain dry air with the circulation.

Re: Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Reply #74 – December 01, 2014, 12:39:56 am

@toyman That's a great idea. Not quite as good of an idea as heading south but if you must be north the mass provided by the fresh water tank would go a long way towards keeping the water bay ice free.

@David aka (J.D.) is right a fan goes a long way towards keeping condensation under control. I don't even open a window. With my single pane windows there are plenty of air leaks to provide air flow. It also helps to be in a dry climate. If I was in an area where the windows were dewing up and the fan couldn't control it I'd buy a dehumidifier in a minute!

A cold front and clear skies can cause temperatures to plummet to -20º or -30º over night pretty easily. In those conditions have several electric heaters and a hair dryer handy to thaw pipes. The problem is it's hard to sleep when you know evil things are happening below!

Be careful out there!

see ya
ken

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