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Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #75
So, to try to understand this, if you see 26 amps at your controller, and if you get that for 4 hours a day of bright sun, are you then sending (up to) 104 amps total to the battery in that 4 hour period?  Do I have it right?

John, sent you a PM.  Thank you!

Brad,

Easier to think in watts not amps as panels are rated in watts but batteries are in amps so good to be able to convert back and forth. The watt rating is AT THAT MOMENT and not related to time. An example is solar panels putting out 1000 watts. One hour is 1 kilowatt hours or 1 kWh. Most controllers total the amount of watts for that day after two hours of inactivity. They will also keep track of past day's performance also with numbers as well as graphs. See page 48 of the MidNite owner's manual at: http://www.midnitesolar.com/pdfs/classicManual.pdf 

On a day after we had used the most juice the night before in Quartzsite, the LCD display the following night showed we had put 2.5 kWh into the batteries. It can also show a graph for time of day/watts.

The controller has a capability of hundreds of settings, history, etc. and takes a long time to read, re-read and re-read again before you start to have a grasp of all the functions. On the other hand, the default settings are ready to plug and play in just several minutes. Good YouTube tutorial videos.

Will also output to Mac or PC with the info. Tablets coming soon.

Here is an idea of sizing from AM Solar that also give a good example of the watts to amps relationship.

quote:

"Let's say you were able to "boondock" for two days before you noticed your batteries getting weak.

First we have to determine what your batteries storage capacity is. Let's say you have two (2) relatively new Group 27 deep cycle batteries that are rated at 100 amp-hours of storage each. This means you theoretically have 200 amp-hours of energy to draw on (2 x 100 = 200). However, only about 80% of that is usable so you really only have 160 amp-hours of energy to draw on (0.8 x 200 = 160).

Once we have established what your batteries storage capacity is we divide it by the number of days you "boondocked" (in this example it was 2 days). So, 160 amp-hours of storage divided by 2 days = 80 amp-hours of energy consumed on the average day.

Now we need to determine how many solar panels you will need to replace that 80 amp-hours of energy you consume per day. We will assume that you use you RV during the sunnier half of the year and/or you follow the sun south during the darker half of the year. This will give you an average of five (5) "peak sun hours" per day.

A 100 watt panel produces an average of about 6 amps per peak sun hour, or about 30 amp-hours per day.

Given the above example, you would need three 100 watt solar panels to fully recharge on the average day."

end quote

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #76
I think I get the electric calculations of it all. 

Next step is to ask why I'd want to spend $610 on a controller, when it seems that I could get one for less than $200 with enough capacity to handle what I decide to put up there.  I do not really care about the infinite amount of metrics that some controllers would display for me, as I think all I really want to know is told to me by the Trimetric I have (and the Prosine readouts).  At this point in my life, I don't want a lot of extra data to think about; I have too many other challenges.  BUT, on the other side, I do not want to spend too little if something isn't really going to work and last and that is why it is cheaper.

To dumb it down in the simplest terms I am thinking about:  Starting out with a full battery bank (2 x 225A), if I have a lot of electricity use going on and it's cloudy outside with the Trimetric showing a falling battery voltage, I know what's gonna happen.  It will be generator time sooner rather than later.  But if it's sunny outside and the Trimetric shows 13 volts and no negative flow out of the batteries, then I know I can turn another appliance on if I need or want to do so while it is still sunny outside. 

Starting out with NO solar, anything will be an improvement on reducing generator time.  I realize it is NOT really cost-efficient, but it would be nice to get a bit of quiet power added to the batteries, especially being headquartered in Arizona where finding sun isn't a problem.  Maybe after the apocalypse, I'll wish I had 2kw up there.
The selected media item is not currently available.Brad & Christine Slaughter
Was:  1990 U280 36'
Was:  2002 U270 36' (With a bathroom door) Build #5981
Is:  2021 Leisure Travel Van Wonder 24RL
2015 Jeep JKU, 2003 S10 QC 4x4 or 2017 C-Max
Lake Havasu City, AZ (or Gillette, WY)

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #77
You could start with a much less expensive Chinese controller that would handle one or two smaller panels and then add another later. Nothing wrong with two controllers on one set of batteries.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #78
Screwing something into the roof is my next fear to worry about.
The selected media item is not currently available.Brad & Christine Slaughter
Was:  1990 U280 36'
Was:  2002 U270 36' (With a bathroom door) Build #5981
Is:  2021 Leisure Travel Van Wonder 24RL
2015 Jeep JKU, 2003 S10 QC 4x4 or 2017 C-Max
Lake Havasu City, AZ (or Gillette, WY)

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #79
There are 100 plus holes now. A lot of owners use a special adhesive and don't drill. I didn't want any possible issues with the big panels so drilled.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #80
Screwing something into the roof is my next fear to worry about.

That is one reason I went with the Unisolar panels, flexible,  thin, self adhesive.
Tom Lang K6PG (originally  KC6UEC)
and Diane Lang
2003 38 U295 build 6209
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Ecodiesel
still have tow-ready 2006 Acura MDX 
Temple City, California
Motorcade 16681 California Chapter President
SKP 16663 member of SKP Park of the Sierra, Coarsegold California
FMCA F071251
Retired electrical and electronic engineer

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #81
I think I get the electric calculations of it all. 

Next step is to ask why I'd want to spend $610 on a controller, when it seems that I could get one for less than $200 with enough capacity to handle what I decide to put up there.  I do not really care about the infinite amount of metrics that some controllers would display for me, as I think all I really want to know is told to me by the Trimetric I have (and the Prosine readouts).  At this point in my life, I don't want a lot of extra data to think about; I have too many other challenges.  BUT, on the other side, I do not want to spend too little if something isn't really going to work and last and that is why it is cheaper.

To dumb it down in the simplest terms I am thinking about:  Starting out with a full battery bank (2 x 225A), if I have a lot of electricity use going on and it's cloudy outside with the Trimetric showing a falling battery voltage, I know what's gonna happen.  It will be generator time sooner rather than later.  But if it's sunny outside and the Trimetric shows 13 volts and no negative flow out of the batteries, then I know I can turn another appliance on if I need or want to do so while it is still sunny outside. 

Starting out with NO solar, anything will be an improvement on reducing generator time.  I realize it is NOT really cost-efficient, but it would be nice to get a bit of quiet power added to the batteries, especially being headquartered in Arizona where finding sun isn't a problem.  Maybe after the apocalypse, I'll wish I had 2kw up there.

That is prettymuch my thinking.  Starting out with two 136 Watt panels, upgradable to four with the same controller.
Tom Lang K6PG (originally  KC6UEC)
and Diane Lang
2003 38 U295 build 6209
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Ecodiesel
still have tow-ready 2006 Acura MDX 
Temple City, California
Motorcade 16681 California Chapter President
SKP 16663 member of SKP Park of the Sierra, Coarsegold California
FMCA F071251
Retired electrical and electronic engineer

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #82
I thought Uni Solar went bankrupt.
The selected media item is not currently available.Bill&Doris 97 U270 36'
University of Parris Island Class of 66
Semper Fi  Build# 5174 MC#17094

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #83
You could start with a much less expensive Chinese controller that would handle one or two smaller panels and then add another later. Nothing wrong with two controllers on one set of batteries.

Pierce

Have you checked this out with the controller manufacturer or in real life? It might be true with old tech linear analog charhe controllers, but today's pwm and mccp controllers migght have voltage spikes getting in each othervs way. I see the possibility of the feedback systems going completely haywire.
Tom Lang K6PG (originally  KC6UEC)
and Diane Lang
2003 38 U295 build 6209
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Ecodiesel
still have tow-ready 2006 Acura MDX 
Temple City, California
Motorcade 16681 California Chapter President
SKP 16663 member of SKP Park of the Sierra, Coarsegold California
FMCA F071251
Retired electrical and electronic engineer

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #84
I thought Uni Solar went bankrupt.
[/quot

I thought Uni Solar went bankrupt.

True, but the panels are still availablen and at sale prices. All you lose is a warranty.
Tom Lang K6PG (originally  KC6UEC)
and Diane Lang
2003 38 U295 build 6209
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Ecodiesel
still have tow-ready 2006 Acura MDX 
Temple City, California
Motorcade 16681 California Chapter President
SKP 16663 member of SKP Park of the Sierra, Coarsegold California
FMCA F071251
Retired electrical and electronic engineer

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #85
Have you checked this out with the controller manufacturer or in real life? It might be true with old tech linear analog charhe controllers, but today's pwm and mccp controllers migght have voltage spikes getting in each othervs way. I see the possibility of the feedback systems going completely haywire.

Don't know about other brands but MidNite has a "follow me" firmware that allows any number of their controllers to be daisy chained.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #86
I think I get the electric calculations of it all. 

Next step is to ask why I'd want to spend $610 on a controller, when it seems that I could get one for less than $200 with enough capacity to handle what I decide to put up there.  I do not really care about the infinite amount of metrics that some controllers would display for me, as I think all I really want to know is told to me by the Trimetric I have (and the Prosine readouts).

Controllers are not all equal. You get the most of the available solar energy conversion from an MPPT controller. They are more efficient, versatile and "kinder" to your batteries. Research early on saves many $$$$ later. Don;t ask me how I know.


Roland
1993 U280 4341
2010 Jeep Liberty
The Pied Pipers

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #87
Quote
author=Roland Begin link=topic=20460.msg150768#msg150768 date=1393815638

Controllers are not all equal. You get the most of the available solar energy conversion from an MPPT controller. They are more efficient, versatile and "kinder" to your batteries. Research early on saves many $$$$ later. Don;t ask me how I know.


Roland
I understand.  The smartest among us are usually the ones who have already made the most mistakes.  I do understand the value of the MPPT controllers, but even they seem to vary wildly in price for the same amperage capability.  I'll keep accumulating info!
The selected media item is not currently available.Brad & Christine Slaughter
Was:  1990 U280 36'
Was:  2002 U270 36' (With a bathroom door) Build #5981
Is:  2021 Leisure Travel Van Wonder 24RL
2015 Jeep JKU, 2003 S10 QC 4x4 or 2017 C-Max
Lake Havasu City, AZ (or Gillette, WY)

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #88
Would expensive batteries, photovoltaic arrays, and their associated equipment really last long enough to pay for themselves before they go bad? Even with diesel at $4 per gallon I can run my genset for several years of battery charging for that kind of money... just saying... always the voice of the cheapskate on here ;D
Scott Cook
1991 U300 36' 6V92TA
Old Town Penobscot 16
1984 Honda VF1100C (V65 Magna)

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #89
Would expensive batteries, photovoltaic arrays, and their associated equipment really last long enough to pay for themselves before they go bad? Even with diesel at $4 per gallon I can run my genset for several years of battery charging for that kind of money... just saying... always the voice of the cheapskate on here ;D
Nope.  They wouldn't.  And motels are cheaper than using a motorhome, but....
The selected media item is not currently available.Brad & Christine Slaughter
Was:  1990 U280 36'
Was:  2002 U270 36' (With a bathroom door) Build #5981
Is:  2021 Leisure Travel Van Wonder 24RL
2015 Jeep JKU, 2003 S10 QC 4x4 or 2017 C-Max
Lake Havasu City, AZ (or Gillette, WY)

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #90
Would expensive batteries, photovoltaic arrays, and their associated equipment really last long enough to pay for themselves before they go bad? Even with diesel at $4 per gallon I can run my genset for several years of battery charging for that kind of money... just saying... always the voice of the cheapskate on here ;D

Does not compute easily.  50% of the value to me is the quiet power.  For me and everyone around me......

Bob
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #91
I understand.  The smartest among us are usually the ones who have already made the most mistakes.  I do understand the value of the MPPT controllers, but even they seem to vary wildly in price for the same amperage capability.  I'll keep accumulating info!

Read the reviews before buying one. There are Chinese controllers on the market claiming to be mppt at unbelievable low prices. Do the research and you will find them to be Pwm,  not mppt.
Tom Lang K6PG (originally  KC6UEC)
and Diane Lang
2003 38 U295 build 6209
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Ecodiesel
still have tow-ready 2006 Acura MDX 
Temple City, California
Motorcade 16681 California Chapter President
SKP 16663 member of SKP Park of the Sierra, Coarsegold California
FMCA F071251
Retired electrical and electronic engineer

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #92
Would expensive batteries, photovoltaic arrays, and their associated equipment really last long enough to pay for themselves before they go bad? Even with diesel at $4 per gallon I can run my genset for several years of battery charging for that kind of money... just saying... always the voice of the cheapskate on here ;D

I had solar on my first unit.  I just added an extra battery and can go all night.  I will want the genset in the morning anyway so I just turn it on. Simple and cheaper yes and what happen when you get a few days of rain. It is fine if you are in the desert buy in the mountains with heavy tree cover it will not work either. Shade is more important to me then not running the genset.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #93
Would expensive batteries, photovoltaic arrays, and their associated equipment really last long enough to pay for themselves before they go bad? Even with diesel at $4 per gallon I can run my genset for several years of battery charging for that kind of money... just saying... always the voice of the cheapskate on here ;D
Cost of running a generator is more than the coast of fuel, you have to account for maintenance and repair issues and there are also environmental issues to be considered.

Roland
1993 U280 4341
2010 Jeep Liberty
The Pied Pipers

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #94
True but I can maintain it for a Long time with the costs of solar. I put it on my first coach but decided against it on the next two. Did not see the benefit as the trees shaded everything here in the mountains and unless I was out west or at the beach they did not produce. Add to the fact that all summer I want ac and that just makes me agree with Scott.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #95
Which is why I am only going with 272 watts with some room for expansion. Enough watts to help top off the batteries after running the generator for the purpose of battery health. With the added benefit of keeping the batteries charged during storage, either short periods with the refrigerator running on propane or longer periods with the refrigerator off.
Tom Lang K6PG (originally  KC6UEC)
and Diane Lang
2003 38 U295 build 6209
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Ecodiesel
still have tow-ready 2006 Acura MDX 
Temple City, California
Motorcade 16681 California Chapter President
SKP 16663 member of SKP Park of the Sierra, Coarsegold California
FMCA F071251
Retired electrical and electronic engineer

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #96
Storage is a good reason to use solar.  In fact one of the best but now I have a garage and will try to always have one.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #97
Exactly.

I could see driving to a cruise ship port,  and taking a cruise with the coach in dry storage with the refrigerator running.

Now for the 64 dollar question.  I know I can go quite long doing this on propane. But how about plugging the 2-way refrigerator into the inverter ac receptacle and running from battery power.  Is this feasible, making an RV refrigerator act like a residential model? How much power would it take each day?
Tom Lang K6PG (originally  KC6UEC)
and Diane Lang
2003 38 U295 build 6209
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Ecodiesel
still have tow-ready 2006 Acura MDX 
Temple City, California
Motorcade 16681 California Chapter President
SKP 16663 member of SKP Park of the Sierra, Coarsegold California
FMCA F071251
Retired electrical and electronic engineer

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #98
running the refrigerator on ac from the inverter is not a good way to go as it will kill your batteries very quickly
previous 1984 35 ft ORED 250 HP 3208 Cat       
previous 1998 40 ft U295 CAI 325 hp Cummins
previous 2003 40 Ft u320 build #6140 450 Cummins M11.                                                         
1999 Mazda Miata
Ron, Nancy, Tipper the cat, Max The dog
1997 U 270 36 ft build number 5174 8.3 Cummins

Re: Battery usage percentages

Reply #99
The Dometic I used to have used DC when it ran on electric instead of propane. The DC is used to heat the system. DC will kill your batteries quick, too.

best, paul
1999 U320 40' 1200 watts on roof. 12cf AC/DC Cold plate fridge/freezer. VMS 240 CL Honda Element