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Topic: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal (Read 4217 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #25
No, you need to re-torque the exhaust manifold bolts after several heat cycles.  Then they'll be fine for the duration.
Regards,
Brett

'99 42' Foretravel Xtreme
'14 Brown Motorsports Stacker
'05 Chevy SSR
'02 BMW R1150R

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #26
In the early 60's when I was racing a 348 and later a 409 in the stock class we would brake a new exhaust manifold in less than a month, my father asked if I was tired of keeping Chevy afloat and said we could cure that problem, the next manifold was heat treated in a pit in the yard with 25 pounds of charcoal, we took a piece of half inch stock drilled it to match the new manifold bolted to it placed it in the pit with the now hot coals and covered it with coals and dirt, left it until the next day,took it out hung it from the cloths line pole and let it cool for 2 days, the long and short of it was I never had another on crack or break a bolt.

I am replacing my exhaust manifold next week and wonder if you think that I should heat treat it as you said....would you do that to yours if it needed replaced? Did you bolt the manifold to a thick piece of lumber before " charcoaling " it? I would worry about warping and twisting.
thanks Pat
1994 u300

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #27
Just for the someone who may be tempted to reuse manifold bolts... don't do it... With all the labor of pulling a manifold spend the money for new bolts... Looking back on our diesel long haul trucks I don't recall ever pulling a manifold without having to drill out at least 1 bolt and often 2 or more. No way in hadez i'm going thru that and consider re using old bolts in finishing.
Dub McBride 1996 270

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #28
I am replacing my exhaust manifold next week and wonder if you think that I should heat treat it as you said....would you do that to yours if it needed replaced? Did you bolt the manifold to a thick piece of lumber before " charcoaling " it? I would worry about warping and twisting.
thanks Pat

Pat, I can't say it will work with the cast iron we have today.
The selected media item is not currently available.Bill&Doris 97 U270 36'
University of Parris Island Class of 66
Semper Fi  Build# 5174 MC#17094

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #29
Pat, I can't say it will work with the cast iron we have today.

thanks bill;
I will just install and carefully warm up and cool a few times to season it, and make sure I warm up the engine before putting it in gear EVERY time. I ordered a used original manifold on ebay and I just hope it was seasoned well and has not shrunken. wish me luck, my first time working on a diesel.!
1994 u300

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #30
Put it on a long flat surface and check for warpage with a feeler gauge.

Have it surfaced at a machine shop if need be.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #31
I think a used manifold is a bad idea. 7 years ago I had to have a broken manifold bolt fixed. As it turned out, 4 more bolts broke while removing the manifold. So the shop drilled them out and I opted for a NEW manifold which was not expensive. They put it on out of the box and installed special bolts that ran $12 each. I never re-torqued the bolts nor did the shop say anything about it. I just started it up and been driving since.
1994 U280, Build 4490
Deming, NM.

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #32
Is it possible for my 95 8.3 to be good for the long haul if no soot marks? Had valves adjusted at 115,000 and always drive her easy after start up. Cant say I let it sit and idle till all the way warm but definitely don't get to bully with the throttle.
Tom
1998 U320 40'

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #33
Ugh, found both bolts missing on exhaust port nearest  rear of motor/ front of coach. Manifold appears to be obviously warped. My hope is that as the manifold has shrunk down it has also bound in on both ends minimizing potential damage to the head from cold air sucking in on deceleration. Any ideas on where to find an improved manifold or is OEM as good as it gets?
 Any input is most appreciated, we are planning a trip this coming weekend and not sure if I shouldn't let cross point Cummins here in Nashville tear into it. My concern with them doing the deal is whether or not they would use the same care with remaining bolts as I would.
Correction one of those missing bolts is broken off in the head.
Tom
1998 U320 40'

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #34
There is no improved part from what I found when I replaced mine. 

If you are in a hurry to get this done, I'd just take it to Cummins and let them worry about it, especially since some of the bolts are broken.  It might cost an arm and a leg though. 

I don't think that I would take it on the trip until the manifold has been replaced though. 
Robert
Build # 5304
1998 34' U270 Cummins 6CTA8.3

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #35
Ugh, found both bolts missing on exhaust port nearest  rear of motor/ front of coach. Manifold appears to be obviously warped. My hope is that as the manifold has shrunk down it has also bound in on both ends minimizing potential damage to the head from cold air sucking in on deceleration. Any ideas on where to find an improved manifold or is OEM as good as it gets?

My exhaust manifold was replaced? by PO who new squat about anything mechanical, long story. In any case the exhaust manifold shrunk 3/4". cylinder head had been cooked with exhaust gases. Cylinder head had to be removed and sent to a machine shop to be milled out. Managed to save the head. New head for my 8.3 at that time was about $4000. I would recommend a Cummins dealer for the repair. If you join the Cummins Power Club you get a 10% discount on part and labor. Here is a link to the club Home Page || Cummins Power Club - The Power To Keep You Moving

Roland
1993 U280 4341
2010 Jeep Liberty
The Pied Pipers

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #36
I don't think that I would take it on the trip until the manifold has been replaced though.
I would only move it as far as the closest Cummins shop.

Roland
1993 U280 4341
2010 Jeep Liberty
The Pied Pipers

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #37
I bought a 8.3 that had had a leaking exhaust gasket.  It was fixed prior to my taking delivery.  The old exhaust manifold was re-installed, after lots of work to get the bolts out, and one of them being fitted with a bolt and nut solution.  The ticket for the work was for lots of labor, and the gaskets and bolts.  The repair worked fine, for several hundred miles.  By mile maybe 700, I was down on power and the leak was at the same valve again.

The mechanic looked at the head, and in less than a minute noted the shrinkage, and suggested doing the repair with new parts.  Cummins over nighted the parts for only a 10% upcharge!

The solution, that worked, was I paid for a new exhaust manifold, gaskets, bolts, seals and some more for the turbo hook up.  I got to leave the coach 400 miles away, for service, drive home and back, pay for the new repair, and then head home.  So for 1.7 coach bucks we have a really nice working diesel, making good power, and several thousand miles of happy miles. 
Dave Cobb
Buckhorn Lake Resort The Club, #6202, Kerrville TX
check the map.  I do rent it out when I am traveling!
2001, U320, 36' #5887, in Kerrville, FT Club #17006, (7/23 to present)
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L, Summit, white
EX: 98 U295, 36' #5219, (mid door), (4/13-10/23)
EX: 93 U225, 36' (4/11 to 4/13)

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #38
and one of them being fitted with a bolt and nut solution

Interesting, that is how some back yard mechanic decided to replace a broken exhaust manifold bolt in my coach. It did not help that he/she/it used SAE bolts (Yes SAE bolts in METRIC threads) from Ace hardware for the rest of the exhaust manifold bolts. All done by PO.

Roland
1993 U280 4341
2010 Jeep Liberty
The Pied Pipers

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #39
There is no improved part from what I found when I replaced mine. 

If you are in a hurry to get this done, I'd just take it to Cummins and let them worry about it, especially since some of the bolts are broken.  It might cost an arm and a leg though. 

I don't think that I would take it on the trip until the manifold has been replaced though.
Picking up parts tomorrow have proper easy out from snap on [not conical variety].The service writer for the local Cummins shop quoted $1700.00 labor with no more than two broken bolts, I said the almost $700.00 in parts was plenty for me. He then proceeded to send me three separate documents pertaining to everything I was about to undertake and assured me I would be fine. My research today and late last night convinces me it will be manageable. Will begin tomorrow evening and wrap up all day Thursday if necessary.
 Funny how two days ago I thought I would check on the old gaskets and now am waiting on a new manifold ??? Glad I read this thread and acted when I did!
Tom
1998 U320 40'

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #40
Well just got back from 500 mile trip after replacing exhaust manifold on my 5.9.
The used manifold was $240 on ebay, the seller even had it milled, which I did not expect and it looked like it was newly sandblasted, exhaust gaskets set $7 at NAPA, $7 turbo gasket cummins, new exhaust manifold bolts on ebay $22 for the set. $278 total for parts, $200 r&r labor (3.5 hrs)
SO the recap is; $478 total... parts and labor and she runs like a top now.

Thanks everyone her for your help! this forum rocks and I love my "new" 1992 u225 Foretravel! Never again I will own a gasoline powered rig!
1994 u300

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #41
Luckee!
$700.00 at Crosspoint Cummins . spent two hrs this afternoon with my mechanic friend . Dis assembly complete, now to tap out two bolts on rear most port sheared by shrinkage and two more that gave up the ghost on the other end when we torqued down . My friend asked why we couldn't bolt through the two upper bolts where there is room between the main body of the head and the flange of the exhaust port. I told him I couldn't really say? We've drilled through two bolts and broke our removal  tap both times! :-(
 Time to purchase a tap set for at least the bottom two busters although we will still try heat and thumping on them tomorrow.
  If anyone knows why we can't simply ream out the upper two and add nuts and washers I would definately be curious the lower two are going to have to come out and or be tapped one way or the other.
Tom
1998 U320 40'

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #42
If anyone knows why we can't simply ream out the upper two and add nuts and washers I would definately be curious the lower two are going to have to come out and or be tapped one way or the other.
That is what some backyard mechanic did to my exhaust manifold on my 8.3 Cummins. That was also my point of failure. Will not hold, lock washers will not help as the heat will destroy them. I suppose if you want a quick fix that you will have to redo and perhaps damage the head have at it.

Roland
1993 U280 4341
2010 Jeep Liberty
The Pied Pipers

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #43
Even heat treated steel? We successfully  re-tapped all but one today. Maybe I'll through bolt just that one when we reassemble tomorrow with resignation that I will be having to continue to keep an eye on it. Will consider one last attempt at oversize tapping the last one. Frankly I am sick of it and having our beautiful old coach in this much disarray!
  Thanks for the response !
Tom
1998 U320 40'

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #44
Helicoil/new manifold/ARP hardware.  Torque it.. one time.  walk away.

Every time it is started, allow it to warm up for a reasonable period of time and shut down in the same fashion.

Personally, I wait until the feed hose on mine gets cool to the touch before shutting down. 
Your turbo will last for a very long time too.  pc
S/W Houston 95" U320C SE/40' 
Build #4778  Cummins M11
Repairs & Covered RV Parking (BAO)
PPL is close..

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #45
Nut and bolt repair is nothing I am terribly proud of . Will be much more confident when I revisit this area. My mechanic friend wants me to consider another insert method in the future. Ran for twenty minutes [around 160degrees] no leaks. Will definitely keep an eye on it for next couple trips, at which time we will tear down thermostat housing, cooling system  and insert at nut and bolt and possibly one other that is suspect.
I feel strongly that vigilance both in operating procedure and watching for changes in boost will avoid any major catastrophe.
Tom
1998 U320 40'

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #46
Nit and bolt repair on an exhaust manifold would be a deal breaker for me if I were buying a coach. Got caught once never again.

Roland
1993 U280 4341
2010 Jeep Liberty
The Pied Pipers

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #47
Its a 1 or 2 thousand mile deal for us. I took your advise to heart and will remove the thermostat/coolant filter assy. in coming months then install Helicoil or similar at nut and bolt and one other hole we re threaded. Old Trucker said the boost gauge is best tool for detecting any leaks before any scorching can occur. At this point the fact we didn't outright break the head is a victory  from my perspective. Fired right up, no clacking nor visual evidence of any leaks.
 Also pleased that head showed no signs of scorching from previous bolt issues. The fact remains that having traveled untold thousands of miles with two broken bolts at same port without damage is a true blessing.
                                                  Thanks for all your responses.
Tom
1998 U320 40'

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #48
Its a 1 or 2 thousand mile deal for us. I took your advise to heart and will remove the thermostat/coolant filter assy. in coming months then install Helicoil or similar at nut and bolt and one other hole we re threaded. Old Trucker said the boost gauge is best tool for detecting any leaks before any scorching can occur. At this point the fact we didn't outright break the head is a victory  from my perspective. Fired right up, no clacking nor visual evidence of any leaks.
 Also pleased that head showed no signs of scorching from previous bolt issues. The fact remains that having traveled untold thousands of miles with two broken bolts at same port without damage is a true blessing.
                                                  Thanks for all your responses.

Timesert not helicoil
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: My 8.3C Exhaust Manifold removal

Reply #49
 repaired many many bad threads in Deltic Diesel Engines in England with Helicoil inserts and other applications. never (that I know of) any issues and these engines pumped out mega HP.
I seem to recolect also using them in Helicopter rebuild situations (Sundstrand).
They were all we used in the 60's.
JohnH
Coachless, now use aircraft. 2003 Ford Travelair TC280 class C. Super shape. Just for 1 yr .
1994 Ford E350 ClassC,total renovation inside and out. Now sold.
2000 U295  36' Cummins 350 c/w Banks Stinger, Resonator upgrade,Solar, LED lites.Residential fridge with slide out pantry. Build 5674. Sold
ex 92 GV 022C ored Cummins. Sold
ex 95 GV240 cat 3116. Sold
2017 Mini cooper s & 2016 land Rover LR2 HSE  LUX.
jhaygarth@aol.com    SKP #130098
treat everyone as you would like to be.