NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Topic: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6" (Read 7113 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #100 – June 19, 2014, 06:32:54 pm

Here's the version for Newmar's King Aire for comparison

http://www.spartanchassis.com/rv/riding/specs/2015/newmar/2015_Newmar_KingAire.pdf

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #101 – June 19, 2014, 07:28:09 pm

Quote from: JeffOnLakeConroe – June 19, 2014, 05:48:19 pm

Link to new Foretravel K-3 Spartan Chassis specs:
http://www.spartanchassis.com/rv/riding/specs/2015/foretravel/2015_foretravel.pdf

Quote from: Michelle – June 19, 2014, 06:32:54 pm

Here's the version for Newmar's King Aire for comparison
http://www.spartanchassis.com/rv/riding/specs/2015/newmar/2015_Newmar_KingAire.pdf

So, unless I missed something, it looks like the same chassis - "no ups - no extras!"

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #102 – June 19, 2014, 07:49:52 pm

Hi,

Any predictions on the projected cost?

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #103 – June 19, 2014, 07:57:51 pm

Quote from: Mark Benko – June 19, 2014, 07:28:09 pm

So, unless I missed something, it looks like the same chassis - "no ups - no extras!"

The differences I noted are:

Foretravel has a Douglas power tilt and telescoping steering wheel.

Newmar has "Comfort Drive" steering assist, driver memory seat/mirror/pedal/TRW steering column positions, TPMS, and optional adaptive cruise and collision avoidance system

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #104 – June 19, 2014, 09:42:28 pm

So the question is then if they are so similar, the price will be the deciding factor. I can't see how FT has greater buying power then Newmar so it is going to be interesting to see the final price.

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #105 – June 19, 2014, 11:33:56 pm

RV Trader has some 2015 Newmar King Aires listed from $828,632 to $918,608. Motor Home Specialist shows the 2015 Foretravel Realm FS6 with a MSRP of $1,019,910 and a sales price of $699.911.

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #106 – June 20, 2014, 06:47:23 am

If that is the FS6 price point, is that not a direct compete to the IH? If i'm spending that kind of $$, would I not look at an IH that has the custom chassis? This WILL be interesting to see how it all plays out!

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #107 – June 20, 2014, 09:10:35 am

Quote from: txforetravel – June 20, 2014, 06:47:23 am

If that is the FS6 price point, is that not a direct compete to the IH? If i'm spending that kind of $$, would I not look at an IH that has the custom chassis? This WILL be interesting to see how it all plays out!

I agree. It will be very interesting to see how these are marketed (as compared with the existing Foretravel lineup) and to (eventually) understand Foretravel's long-term business strategy. I wonder if Foretravel would like to get out of the "chassis business" and simply purchase the chassis from someone else.

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #108 – June 20, 2014, 12:07:39 pm

I suspect long term strategy is grow profitably, as such the in house chassis will survive if sufficient profitably unit sales exist. Plus this is a logical upgrade path from a lower priced FT. How many posts on this forum have implored FT to build a downmarket model?

I say so far so good

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #109 – June 20, 2014, 11:33:20 pm

Quote from: D.J. Osborn – June 20, 2014, 09:10:35 am

I agree. It will be very interesting to see how these are marketed (as compared with the existing Foretravel lineup) and to (eventually) understand Foretravel's long-term business strategy. I wonder if Foretravel would like to get out of the "chassis business" and simply purchase the chassis from someone else.

Let's say you find out your price is too high. If you cut your price you irritate the current owners. And hurt the late model resale prices. Hmmmm

Change the design. New price point.

May or may not be cheaper. Does not matter. Perceived value is the key.

Foretravel changed its price a lot when the unihome came out. Up $40k. May or may not have cost more........

Just business. Plus it gives a better trade up, trade down structure. Good move Greg.

Or none of the above may apply.

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #110 – June 21, 2014, 08:34:26 am

They also have the freightliner command coach business. It will be interesting to see how all this turns out.

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #111 – June 21, 2014, 09:24:59 am

Quote from: John S – June 21, 2014, 08:34:26 am

They also have the freightliner command coach business. It will be interesting to see how all this turns out.

I'm not familiar. What is that?

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #112 – June 21, 2014, 09:56:02 am

Quote from: Falconguy – June 21, 2014, 09:24:59 am

I'm not familiar. What is that?

From Foretravel's website news

Foretravel also announced that in addition to their Class A High End Motorcoaches, they are assembling a 40 ft. front engine diesel coach that is designed for medical and emergency applications. The first three units produced are being used as dental labs. The unit is named "Lone Star" and is distributed by Motor Specialty Vehicles of Jasper, Texas. President Greg Amys stated Foretravel is excited about this new opportunity for Foretravel and building this unit is resulting in the hiring of additional employees at Foretravel.

A little Googling and I found this reference to "Lonestar" as a platform and "dental"

Mobile Specialty Vehicles - St. David?s Giant Smile Tour

I suspect "Motor Specialty Vehicles" in the press release was a typo and that the joint venture is with "Mobile Specialty Vehicles" Mobile Specialty Vehicles - Mobile Medical Vehicles | Command Center, Health

ETA here's the MSV page for LoneStar Mobile Specialty Vehicles - The Lone Star Motorcoach | Mobile Health & Medical

And another edit - the YouTube video

A Star Is Born: The Lone Star From Mobile Specialty Vehicles - YouTube

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #113 – June 21, 2014, 10:54:46 am

Thanks for the info Michelle. Very interesting.

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #114 – June 21, 2014, 09:20:20 pm

Ron, at ladies driving school last fall they reviewed the labs, said at that time they had orders for a dozen. I imagine they hope to grow that business but these first were built for a specific customer, not speculative as I recall the presentation back then.

I guess most recall the horse trailer venture. Not sure if they still make those high grade units but see one on their lot from time to time.

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #115 – June 22, 2014, 07:43:46 am

Quote from: Michelle – June 21, 2014, 09:56:02 am

.........snip..........
And another edit - the YouTube video

A Star Is Born: The Lone Star From Mobile Specialty Vehicles - YouTube

Thanks Michelle.. The youtube video was particularly interesting.

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #116 – July 05, 2014, 09:36:07 am

Having owned a King Aire and just barely owned (3 whole days), I have a few observations. First, my Foretravel is 10 years old. My King Aire was three years old, when I owned it. That said, the interior quality and the stability of the Foretravel is, IMO, far far better. Even without Comfort Drive, the U320 drives much better. Fewer rattles. Less road noise. Better walls, switches etc.

That said, the King Aire does have some great bells and whistles. The option of air leveling or jacks, is one example as we couldn't get level with air on our first stop. Brakes seemed far better on the KA. And accelerating while pulling almost anything up the Rocky Mountains is hard to beat. The K-3 chassis seemed rock solid. Only the box on top was a little too glitzy and a little less substantial than the foretravel (previous comments about drive ability aside).

There is no way I would buy a new IH. And, I almost bought 2014 King Aire when I bought this U320 knowing the construction was far better in the Foretravel just because I did want 600 hp and more features but couldn't find a used Phenix that would work for us.

I went to see those folks in Alverado for a third time to see about this mystery coach called the Realm and had the third unpleasant experience there and decided, generally, I was tired of RV dealers and the games they played. (Like the Newmar dealer in Florida who advised me not to buy the King Aire at Foretravel a few months ago, then bought it themselves to resell it.) I did not pass go nor collect my $200. I went directly to my man Paul and bought a ten year old coach directly from the factory I felt I could rely on. Trust was far more important to me. And, those people at Foretrvael have me convinced they generally want the best for me and my family.

The confusing part to me is why for a factory that has had far more capacity in the past, why my options are a $1.3 new coach or a $200,000 ten year old coach with nothing (or very little) in between.

Foretravel, again IMO, has a huge potential market but doesn't appear to be interested in going after it. What I don't know, and probably shouldn't, is the business rationale for doing what they do.

In the event someone asked though, I would tell them If FOT could sell me a high quality build on a k-3 with comparable bells and whistles for half the money of an IH, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. However, I'm not interested in the dealer distribution model though. Those guys just don't seem to get sustainable relationships and their needs verses mine are just too different.

I do wish Foretravel well and will enjoy the journey in an awesome 10 year old coach that serves the needs of my family of four very very well. I'm thankful they do what they do and how they do it.

"Later on down the road" - Johnny Cash (highly recommend)

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #117 – July 05, 2014, 11:32:45 am

Joe Lucky1,

Enjoyed reading your assessment and agree it is unfortunate that Foretravel does not have something in their line-up that is affordable for "regular" folks. And, it was VERY interesting how your U320 drives better than a relatively new top-o-the-line Newmar WITH Comfort Drive. It will be interesting to see what the Realm really is after it debuts...

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #118 – July 05, 2014, 11:34:17 am

FT can't go downmarket price wise with their in-house chassis and make reasonable returns. They want to use a dealer network so that the dealer can floorplan Inventory not FT. I suspect you'll see Ice Age in Phoenix models custom ordered directly from the factory. And the lower price point coach based on a commercial chassis through a limited dealer network. Probably a great compromise to allow for travel to maintain and sustain itself as a viable business.

Not all dealers are bad actually MOT is a great dealer but most RV sales guys are bad

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #119 – July 05, 2014, 11:59:39 am

There is a large market for 28-34' range of motorhomes. FT has given up this market a long time ago. I bought a 34', but really wanted something in the 25-30' range........I did this just to get a FT and the associated quality and robustness.

Saying it is "too expensive" to build a custom chasis, etc is kind of foolish. All the design and engineering work has been done. The cost to weld up the components is merely variable costs. Of course, all those jigs and tools may have been scrapped.

The last 15 years has been of opulence and high spenders as quality manufacturers have abandoned the bread and butter upper middle class buyer. It's happened the same way in the boat world. Foretravel and Hatteras Yachts share nearly identical history, quality, and downfalls.

I'll have to keep my 1998 34' running forever. I literally don't have a replacement option in the 2000 year models.

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #120 – July 05, 2014, 12:53:00 pm

krush,

MOT recently sold a 2005 U270 34' Foretravel. So, there are some 2000 year models available to purchase.

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #121 – July 05, 2014, 03:32:17 pm

A motorhome for weekend use and maybe a two-week vacation is a far different machine than one that is intended for full-time, or even long-time, use. While it is possible to full-time in most anything (there are people full-timing on motorcycles), Foretravel has gone after the full-timer market, and most full-timers prefer larger coaches.

Would there be a market for a smaller coach? Perhaps. Perhaps someone could check production statistics and see what percent of the coaches built in each year were of what size and the number of slides. That would give an idea of what to expect in the future.

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #122 – July 05, 2014, 03:54:24 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – July 05, 2014, 11:34:17 am

FT can't go downmarket price wise with their in-house chassis and make reasonable returns.

I would really like to know how much less it costs to build an otherwise identical motorhome on a Spartan K3 chassis than on a Foretravel chassis. It seems as if the drivetrain and virtually all suspension components are either identical or comparable. How is Spartan able to build a quality chassis at a significantly lower cost--and then make a reasonable profit on it when they sell it to Foretravel--with the final product still costing less than if Foretravel did all of it?

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #123 – July 05, 2014, 05:23:01 pm

"I would really like to know how much less it costs to build an otherwise identical motorhome on a Spartan K3 chassis than on a Foretravel chassis." I doubt that anyone outside of Foretravel management would have that information. Consider, though, that the design and engineering costs are incurred before the first sale is made. Suppose that it costs $100,000 to design a chassis, and it also costs $100,000 to build it. If only one such chassis is produced, the cost for that chassis is $200,000. If 10 are produced, the cost for each one is $110,000. If 100 are built, the cost for each one is $101,000. If 1000 are built, the cost is down to $100,100 per chassis. Now add the savings on the steel and other parts by buying in larger quantities, and buying a mass-produced chassis can be quite a bit cheaper than building your own.

I pulled the numbers out of thin air just for an example. I have no idea what a chassis costs. The idea, though, still holds true. Spreading the engineering costs over a larger number of items will reduce the cost per item.

Re: NEW Foretravel "Realm FS6"

Reply #124 – July 05, 2014, 06:36:15 pm

Foretravel has high relative material costs, no automation (robots ) and a higher overhead per unit sale. Yes, more volume would help all three cost drivers, but that would require significant investment with unknown returns.

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