refrigerator woes

Topic: refrigerator woes (Read 3096 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #25 – June 05, 2014, 08:21:12 pm

Quote from: rbark – June 05, 2014, 07:42:20 pm

Roy, I believe Barry Beam had one of those installed on his coach.
He might be able to give you some insight on the product.

Richard B

Mac the fire guy also has one, he Ike's it better than the thermal circuit breaker.

He also tells me Dometic boasts of not having a fire reported in three years. Records are made to be broken.

He also tells me both Norcold and Domestic used to tell customers with recalled models it was safe to run on as ...until they had a bunch of fires on ac.

One more tidbit from Mac. He asked the engineer about the sheet metal fire stop added as part of the recall, and was told that was to direct the fire up the flue when it caught fire. Mac asked if he meant if it caught fire, and was told he meant when.

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #26 – June 05, 2014, 08:32:09 pm

Quote from: Roy Dameron – June 05, 2014, 02:41:55 pm

I was looking over the American Coach forum and noticed a couple had lost their coach to a refrigerator fire. This after market refrigerator protective controller came up. It is an add on unit the shuts down the heat for 10 minutes if it over heats. Won't prevent all types of refrigerator fires, but looks like the most common one. I have ordered one. I like the concept. Cost is $120 I thought that was cheap insurance. Anyone have any experience with this unit?

ARPrv | RV Refrigerator | RV Fridge Control | Install by Cooling Unit | RV Fires

Roy

I'll be adding one, sounds like a good idea. Their website is good reading, this device solves many issues other than fire.

By the way, Mac says the fire suppression device needs no maintenance, inspections, nor recharging.

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #27 – June 05, 2014, 08:48:59 pm

Quote from: Tom Lang – June 05, 2014, 08:12:50 pm

The lines will still be charged, but the controller won't open the valve to the burner nor fire the igniter without DC power.

Refer is wired around the shutoff. Direct to battery. Door shutoff no effect. So is the chest freezer I think. Prevents turned off refers with food in them. Propane leak detector also?

Bob

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #28 – June 05, 2014, 08:55:50 pm

The thermal shutoff would be wired to the DC power line feeding the regfriferator, completely shutting it down.

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #29 – June 07, 2014, 02:07:06 am

Here's another kudo re: Fotetravel's attention to detail, quality, and safety.

Mac the fire guy told me RV manufacturers put nothing between the refrigerator fire box and the wood wall. When I told him my coach has a fire resistant blue foam, he said it does not go very far up. Mac has a FleetWOOD.

I talked to Drew at Foretravel today, and he says that foam goes all the way to the roof.

I looked at my campground host's newer Monaco. And the raw wood is jammed right up in contact with the recall-added fire stop. And no foam.

My fist size fire was probably licking at the bottom edge of the foam, and left a fist size depression in the foam, maybe a quarter inch deep.

Needless to say I'd rather have an older Foretravel, built for safety no matter the cost, than any number of new SOB coaches, no matter how costly.

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #30 – June 07, 2014, 09:09:20 am

Quote from: Tom Lang – June 07, 2014, 02:07:06 am

Here's another kudo re: Fotetravel's attention to detail, quality, and safety.

Mac the fire guy told me RV manufacturers put nothing between the refrigerator fire box and the wood wall. When I told him my coach has a fire resistant blue foam, he said it does not go very far up. Mac has a FleetWOOD.

I talked to Drew at Foretravel today, and he says that foam goes all the way to the roof.

Tom - here are some photos of the cabinet interior that were taken when our Dometic fridge was removed (we went residential).

The selected media item is not currently available.

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #31 – June 07, 2014, 10:33:24 am

Tom and Michelle,

The blue you have is the right stuff. Wish they had done that in the earlier models. Foretravel didn't say when they started installing it, did they? Our 1993 U300 was just thin Lauan everywhere in the compartment.

Here is a video showing the fire resistive blue type vs ordinary Styrofoam: Burn Test: Regular vs Flame retardant EPS (styrofoam) - YouTube

Tom, can't trust those FleetWOODs.

Pierce

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #32 – June 07, 2014, 11:47:05 am

Drew seems to be on the learning curve, filling in with James T. away. I'd wait a week and ask James that question.

The Monaco I peeked at has only wood visible surrounding the refrigerator. They have a piece of wood running across the cabinet, just above the access hatch, that is touching the aluminum insulating material they wrapped around the firebox as a fire director in the recall, there was no room for the sheet metal fire shield.

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #33 – June 07, 2014, 11:48:26 am

I had and have the blue insulation in my coach too.

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #34 – June 07, 2014, 11:54:22 am

Quote from: Michelle – June 07, 2014, 09:09:20 am

Tom - here are some photos of the cabinet interior that were taken when our Dometic fridge was removed (we went residential).

Maybe the blue foam doesn't go all the way to the top. I'll know for sure when the refrigerator is out. Drew couldn't tell me what foam was used, but it might be labeled. I might give James a call when he gets back.

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #35 – June 07, 2014, 12:04:58 pm

STYROFOAMTM Brand insulation products are combustible and should be protected from flames and other high-heat sources. They contain a flame retardant to inhibit accidental ignition from small fire sources. During a fire, smoke may be heavy and contain the original material as well as combustion products of varying composition that may be irritating.

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #36 – June 07, 2014, 12:38:06 pm

Tom, in our 99', the blue foam goes all the way top. I figure they put it there to help the fridge not have t work as hard to keep things cool. There is also an extra inch and half of insulation skinned with a sheet of fiberglass that is on the wall above the vent, but doesn't come all the way down to the vent. This is in addition to the thickness of the wall insulation. I just completed my marine style fridge installation and since there is no burner, I brought the insulation all the way down to the vent opening. The blue insulation used in the fridge compartment is the same as used in the basement floor and coach floor as well as the side walls of the coaches. The walls have an extra layer of some kind of brown foam as well. Thread on the fridge install coming soon...
Don

Quote from: Tom Lang – June 07, 2014, 11:54:22 am

Maybe the blue foam doesn't go all the way to the top. I'll know for sure when the refrigerator is out. Drew couldn't tell me what foam was used, but it might be labeled. I might give James a call when he gets back.

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #37 – June 07, 2014, 03:22:22 pm

FWIW, here are some pictures of the blue Styrofoam used by Foretravel throughout the coach. Unfortunately, the flame rating text is not intact, But by putting the two pieces I had together you can read most of it. It does seem that the Styrofoam is superior to bare wood in terms of catching fire, but I wouldn't count on it keeping the coach from burning to the ground any event of a catastrophic fridge fire! These are pieces are left over from my fridge project, I took these pieces out to get a more flush surface and then I added a half-inch foil faced rigid polyurethane foam insulation which has a similar characteristic as regarding exposure to flame as the Styrofoam type used by Foretravel. Though the new fridge is not an absorption style, I lined the compartment with .032" thick aluminum sheet over the insulation. I did it more for weatherproofing then fireproofing, But I am quite sure that it is superior to wood or bare Styrofoam as regards susceptibility to flame!
Don

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #38 – June 07, 2014, 04:00:48 pm

Quote from: Tom Lang – June 07, 2014, 12:04:58 pm

STYROFOAMTM Brand insulation products are combustible and should be protected from flames and other high-heat sources. They contain a flame retardant to inhibit accidental ignition from small fire sources. During a fire, smoke may be heavy and contain the original material as well as combustion products of varying composition that may be irritating.

Tom,

I don't think anyone expects the blue foam to have a one hour fire rating. The question is with a clean compartment (no rodent nests, etc) how long does the fire last and how intense is it? There must be a video or documentation of both. The next question is, has any Foretravel with the blue foam had a refrigerator fire that spread beyond the compartment?

That's one of the reasons I installed the backerboard. Not even a welding torch will go through it. Possibly an overkill but...

Installation of a residential or cold plate fridge does away with all the questions.

Pierce

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #39 – June 07, 2014, 11:48:18 pm

Mac says a fist size fireball will run out of hydrogen-ammonia in about three minutes. My guess is mine was going about that long. No real damage other than the fridge.

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #40 – June 13, 2014, 06:04:42 pm

After a few email exchanges with Dometic, they have decided to help. They say I can have it repaired, or replaced with as current model that won't fit, or take some undetermined small cash payment to use towards a residential unit. When Temecula Valley RV has the coach for my slide repair starting Monday, tvrv and Dometic will work this out. I could still go with insurance for a marine unit.

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #41 – June 13, 2014, 11:53:41 pm

tom
I went through several thousand dollars of fridge woes. my solution a few years ago
was a Samsung residential. lots of people on this site have done the same thing. I
don't think you will find anyone who is sorry that they went this route. mine runs
fine on a modified sine wave inverter, uses very little power, and dw is happy.
not a cheap mod, but it works.

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #42 – June 14, 2014, 01:08:26 am

I will need to come to a decision next week.

As much was I am attracted to a large residential unit, my DW likes the wood panel look we have now, we would lose the pullout drawers below, being only 38' in length we don't have that pantry on the side, and being a U295, going all electric and replacing the propane tank with a fourth 8D battery is not practical. And any residential conversion would call for cabinet work done locally.

I am also attracted to a marine unit. The one Don is using has the wool panel look we like, but again calls for new cabinetry both below and to the side. And the capacity is quite a bit smaller, which may or may not matter.

Another option is a custom marine unit. Advantages are wood panels, probably more capacity than the Domestic, can be made as an exact fit so no cabinetry is needed, and can be made with 4" of insulation instead of 3" for higher efficiency. Disadvantage is $3500 cost, but offset by no cabinetry costs other than wood panel inserts.

But at the moment I an leaning in the direction of letting Domestic rebuild what I have now, and adding a fire prevention device and a fire suppression device. Just leaning.

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #43 – June 14, 2014, 04:43:53 am

You do have the option of a counter depth residential unit that uses wood panels instead of stainless steel or colored.
I don't think you HAVE to install a additional battery, its probably nice but NOT necessary.
I put in a refrigerator on/off switch so I can turn off the refrigerator easily. If I think I will have battery problems I can turn off the refrigerator and run it sparingly(or on the generator). The refrigerator when loaded does not run that often, and turning it off for a few hours will still keep everything inside good and cold. When I turn it back on it comes back down to temp. fast. The freezer allows me to set temp. down to about -10 and I keep the refrigerator side set to 36 degrees.
Takes a long time for temps to elevate to a dangerous temp. for food preservation.

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #44 – June 14, 2014, 08:31:14 am

For $699 this outfit will custom design and build wood panel overlays for your refrigerator (of, presumably, any make) to match.

I found this with one search for "refrigerator wood panel overlay". Probably should have made it "refrigerator door". Google is your friend.

Craig

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #45 – June 14, 2014, 11:30:59 am

It astounds me personally that people cannot live with the space in a 10cft fridge. How much food do we need to keep frozen/cold even if you are a fulltimer. We had the double door Dometic but find the Whirlpool plenty good enough for our 3-4 month road journey's, and we most probably are much further from stores a lot of the time that many of you fulltimers.
I challenge evryone to go thru' your fridge and document what REALLY has to be kept in the fridge (or what you can REALLY do without) and then see how big a unit you need!
If it is just that you WANT it then so be it, but most comments seem to be that they NEED the space??
I also think the money charged for fairly simple cabinet modifications to be atrocious.( Don's changes are NOT the norm, even in a Prevost coach cost).
I am glad I do not have to pay for such work.
JohnH

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #46 – June 14, 2014, 11:48:16 am

I am with you John. We paid my local guy $659 parts and labor to slide out the fire hazard Dometic and slide in a 10 cu ft residential.

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #47 – June 14, 2014, 02:23:07 pm

Quote from: John Haygarth – June 14, 2014, 11:30:59 am

It astounds me personally that people cannot live with the space in a 10cft fridge. How much food do we need to keep frozen/cold even if you are a fulltimer. We had the double door Dometic but find the Whirlpool plenty good enough for our 3-4 month road journey's, and we most probably are much further from stores a lot of the time that many of you fulltimers.
I challenge evryone to go thru' your fridge and document what REALLY has to be kept in the fridge (or what you can REALLY do without) and then see how big a unit you need!
If it is just that you WANT it then so be it, but most comments seem to be that they NEED the space??
I also think the money charged for fairly simple cabinet modifications to be atrocious.( Don's changes are NOT the norm, even in a Prevost coach cost).
I am glad I do not have to pay for such work.
JohnH

It's not that we need a large refrigerator. Our two previous motorhomes had 8 cu-ft or so refrigerators, and we did just fine. But one trip to Costco will fill even the largest residential unit. What we don't wish to lose is storage space, as in the two cabinets below the current refrigerator with pull out shelves. A large residential unit would take these away, but a small 8-12 cu-ft unit would allow us to keep these plus add a side pantry (at more expense).

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #48 – June 14, 2014, 05:57:23 pm

Exactly what I did with the space left over- put in a slide out pantry. I know , I did it myself and some of you cannot. My total for complete reno of fridge area was under $400 matl included, so if you add some $500 for labour then now you are up to $1k plus the fridge of $350 or? We still have the lower cabinets plus now that pantry.
JohnH

Re: refrigerator woes

Reply #49 – June 14, 2014, 06:43:07 pm

Due to the installation Michelle had, I am considering returning to have mine reinstalled lower so the refrig door misses the door track.
Yes I lost the cabinet area below the new refrig, but it was unusable for me & the lost area was made up with the extra space in the refrig. Stowing dry goods that are now reachable, so I now have more usable storage.
I sure do enjoy the space. But equally the ability to control temps on both sides. Easy keeping fresh produce a lot longer than the original box, freezer below zero, things stay wonderful.
I'm happy so who cares ?

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