Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #25 – June 19, 2014, 01:11:31 pm Quote from: LTG – June 19, 2014, 11:32:39 amMike, Be glad that you have sold your old RV. When we purchased our Foretravel from FOT, they would not take our gas Winnebago in on trade. We still are trying to sell it almost a year later. By The Way, a Foretravel is the way to go.Mine was a 1994 Fleetwood Pace Arrow that was in mint shape. We never wore shoes in it the stove was never used. Put it on Craig's list on Sunday night and was sold in three days. Every thing worked and needed nothing. What kills me is everyone saying you need 10k to dump into it in the first year. Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #26 – June 19, 2014, 01:35:47 pm Quote from: Mike Brez – June 19, 2014, 01:11:31 pmWhat kills me is everyone saying you need 10k to dump into it in the first year.Based on our experience that figure is way too high. We needed to replace our refrigerator cooling unit during the first year, and that was under $1,500. We purchased carefully, and the previous owner had maintained it well and was totally "up front" with us about every aspect of the coach. Therefore, repair costs so far have been minimized. The major expense we have had so far is putting fuel into it. I don't like the cost of fuel--but it sure has been fun needing to refill the tank as we have traveled! Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #27 – June 19, 2014, 01:54:58 pm You only need to dump $10K if you chose poorly or were really unlucky (and most of the time, you make your own luck). After we got ours home, we spent less than $500 for all the things that needed to be done in over 4 years (including six house batteries that listed for over $435 each). Naturally, this does not include fun stuff like HDTVs, solar panels, etc. or insurance, license fees. With research, DIY skills, you can keep the cost of ownership way down. The older the coach is, the more you need to be a DIYer or lacking that, a fat wallet.That's why any buyer needs to spend a few bucks for an inspection by a knowledgeable Foretravel person so you DON"T CHOOSE POORLY.Pierce Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #28 – June 19, 2014, 01:55:31 pm I think the $10k is what they are saying you should be prepared for in sort of a worst case scenario. Many buyers have somewhat unrealistic expectations when they buy a used coach and have no idea what maintenance, tires, batteries and everything that wears out and all of that sort of stuff costs. Work those issues into your purchase offer. A complete engine, transmission, coolant, aquahot and generator maintenance plus six tires and six batteries might not be quite $10k but right up there.Be a smart buyer, do your homework, get an unbiased inspection, make a fair and well informed offer and be prepared to do what is required to get your new coach road ready and its new owners road ready as well. It makes no sense to buy right up to your limit and have no reserve and then live with that nagging fear of not knowing that everything is good to go.You will spend $ on maintenance and repairs. Period. No way around it so plan accordingly.Fuel $ = fun. That first $600 fill is a bit of a shock. You will get over it.Roger Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #29 – June 19, 2014, 02:00:58 pm It is good counsel to have a decent reserve for after purchase repairs. Not that it will or must get spent, but buying a 10 plus year old piece of equipment as sophisticated and complicated as a FT motorhome without adequate reserves and a mindset that things will need to be addressed is unrealistic optimism. Better to have a pleasant surprise that you didn't spend the reserve, than the unpleasant one of needing a few thousand dollars in repairs and not having the funds to pay for them. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #30 – June 19, 2014, 02:13:39 pm "What kills me is everyone saying you need 10k to dump into it in the first year." That may not be true for everyone, but some spend much more than that. That figure usually includes both repairs and upgrades. Suppose a coach needs six new tires and new house batteries. The tires will run $4000 or so, depending on brand and the deal. We bought two 8D AGM house batteries for just under $1000. There's half of that $10,000. Add a new television or two, a new refrigerator, updating the inverter and charger, and the other $5000 can be nearly gone. Adding solar can also make a dent in that budget.I'd rather have had $10,000 in reserve and not needed it than had nothing in reserve and needed $10,000. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #31 – June 19, 2014, 02:25:05 pm Where do you fit the $25,000 Xtreme paint & few upgrades fit into this panic attack ?Its all optional and sure not required. Then you have more & more upgrades, again not required, but makes one happy Actual needed repairs are near non existent, mostly standard service items.Do the routine that what makes you happy.PTL Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #32 – June 19, 2014, 03:25:39 pm People who buy brand-new coaches, even the multi-million-dollar ones, have things that need to be taken care of, so why should someone who buys a used coach expect any different? The buyer of the new coach thinks the issues are being repaired for free under the warranty, but in reality those costs are built into the price of the coach. The buyer of a used coach doesn't have anyone else to look to, so we pay for those repairs ourselves.Consider two Foretravels that left the factory as identical twins ten years ago. Today they are both on the market. One of them needs six new tires and new batteries. The other has new tires and batteries. Will they be priced the same? Of course not. After the first one gets the new tires and batteries, the total cost of the two coaches will be pretty much the same. What's the difference? If you buy a coach that is 100% ready to go you will pay more for it than one that needs some repairs. The coach that needs some repairs may not need all of the repairs done immediately, so the buyer can spread the expense out a bit, and maybe even do some of it himself. "Ya pays your money and takes your choice."After seeing others, and living with ours for just over a year, the Foretravel is the ONLY way to go. Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #33 – June 19, 2014, 05:09:56 pm Quote from: kb0zke – June 19, 2014, 03:25:39 pmConsider two Foretravels that left the factory as identical twins ten years ago. Today they are both on the market. One of them needs six new tires and new batteries. The other has new tires and batteries. Will they be priced the same? Of course not. Other factors being equal, they should be worth the difference between the cost of the tires and batteries. But personal circumstances by both a private seller and a dealer may be quite different. Some sellers may look at the original price they paid and can't bring themselves to price the coach at a realistic level. Others may have financial or marital problems that necessitate a low price for a very quick sale. Dealers also have different sales philosophies.In our case, our U300 had been sold three times with the buyer unable to come up with the financing each time. The seller kept the deposits and when we offered $10K less, they took it. We were able to buy the coach for just over $20,000 with only 62,000 miles, two brand new roof ACs and a set of new tires. This is why you can never judge the condition of a coach by the price, only by actually inspecting it. This is also why you have to be willing to jump on a plane as soon as you see a deal on Craigslist, etc. "The morning hour has gold in it's mouth."From the days of sailing, I can remember distant foreign ports where couples arrived after a tough voyage, split up and left the boat. Tough to get anyone to fly 10,000 miles to look at a boat and pay anywhere near market price, especially if it's been sitting and not exactly in Bristol condition. So the bargains are there. Just have to look a bit.Pierce Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #34 – June 19, 2014, 08:26:52 pm I would almost rather buy a coach that needs the work so I could learn the systems and after replacing all the wear out items then I can start out with new consumables.Obviously needs to be reflected in the price. Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #35 – June 19, 2014, 08:32:13 pm Buying one that needs a lot of work can be very expensive if you cannot do it yourself. Also a lot of people out there that do not tell you the truth on what is wrong with a coach, so get an inspection. Don't ask me how I know that one, but luckily I can fix most things.JohnH Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #36 – June 19, 2014, 09:32:28 pm As related here before - We found our FT at a price I couldn't refuse. Her interior and exterior was in great shape, most everything worked. The PO had passed and his wife decided that the coach had to go. She put thousands into her including belts hoses and a bunch of stuff she paid for that was NOT repaired. A complete PDI was completed and everything listed was supposedly repaired/replaced. We knew it needed new tires and the auto-awning did not work. We have owned her for over a year and put roughly $13K into her including new tires and new batteries and other stuff and over 14K in miles. Of course some of that $$$ was spent on stuff that we wanted and did not require. If one were to search my threads and read them, one might think that we have lived a horror story. Nothing is further from the truth. We have learned alot about our Ol' Girl and have done most of the work ourselves. She is the only job I have other than taking care of my bride.Her appraised/market value is still much greater than our total dollars spent and we are quite pleased with our decision. Even with the best inspection one can not detect what will fail and require repair/replacement like our mighty fine 14 month old Prosine 2.0 that the PO replaced.I suppose that if we had spent another $13K we Might have gotten a coach that didn't require the repairs that ours has, but then again we would not have spent the additional $13K. FWIW Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #37 – June 19, 2014, 10:00:38 pm I was at Oregon Motorcoach in Eugene and saw a Country Coach Magna in for service. Got a chance to meet the owner and quickly got around to talking engines. He heard me pull in and knew I had a Detroit from the sound. I asked which engine he had and he replied he had a Detroit. Found out later it was the 12v92. When he started up and I heard him leaving the parking lot I have to admit there was lust in my heart. see yaken Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #38 – June 19, 2014, 10:17:15 pm Quote from: kenhat – June 19, 2014, 10:00:38 pmI was at Oregon Motorcoach in Eugene and saw a Country Coach Magna in for service. Got a chance to meet the owner and quickly got around to talking engines. He heard me pull in and knew I had a Detroit from the sound. I asked which engine he had and he replied he had a Detroit. Found out later it was the 12v92. When he started up and I heard him leaving the parking lot I have to admit there was lust in my heart. see yakennever heard of that installation. Maybe with an eaton economat nine speed trans for the torque. I would think the 4060 would not handle that.Detroit series 60? Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #39 – June 20, 2014, 12:20:23 am The sound of a 60 is light years from a 12V-92 or any Detroit 2 cycle. Could have been optional as most had 60 series or big CATs.FD ladder trucks get an easy 515 hp from a 6V-92TA so double that. Probably 600 in a RV. A good reason to be a green eyed monster. That would be a 18 liter engine.Pierce Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #40 – June 20, 2014, 03:59:24 am Having a lot of sperience with both the 12V-71 & the 12V-92 DDC engines, I can assure you Country Coach nor any other RV maker ever used either of these engines. Having created a 12V-71 in the MCI was a challenge, but the 12V-92 is a much longer engine having two blocks bolted end to end unlike the 12V-71 is a single block. Plus the weight of the little 12V-71 runs 3,400 lbs the 12V-92 over 4,000. Horsepower wise the 12V-71 runs in the 480 hp area the 12V-92 runs in the 950 hp area, however all DDC 2 strokers can go way up from there, have taken the 8V-92 to 835 hp, fun to drive but no fun at the pump.The 4000 Allison behind the 12V-92 would look like it had been in a blender, even the old 12V-71 took out drivelines, U Joints & rear ends when the driver got forgetful at a stop sign. So I suggest the feller that claims his Country Coach had the 12V-92 take a breathe and regroup. Bet that chap sold Ocean front property in Iowa or Kansas Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #41 – June 20, 2014, 03:00:04 pm As I recall both the CC Magna and Newell ran 8V92's at one time. Maybe he just got confused but the 8V92 would be cool. Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #42 – June 20, 2014, 03:06:29 pm Kent, Most likely the over zelous comment, yes the 8V-92 can be fun, but the 6V-92 has proven to be a better/ longer lasting engine.Dave M Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #43 – June 20, 2014, 03:48:16 pm Quote from: Dave M – June 20, 2014, 03:06:29 pm. . . yes the 8V-92 can be fun, but the 6V-92 has proven to be a better/ longer lasting engine.Just curious: Why is that? I thought the two engines shared the same basic design and a lot of components. Are there cooling issues with the 8V-92, or some other unique issues? Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #44 – June 20, 2014, 05:22:55 pm The unique issue is mainly the 8V has a habit of spinning the rear main, the 6V does not have that issue.In general the 8V is a great engine as long as you are aware of the issue, that is why everyone that pays attention runs 50 wt oil, this seems to have eliminated the bearing issue.Both engines use the same bearings, the rear main in the 8V seems to be very tender with the amount of stress applied.Dave M Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #45 – June 20, 2014, 05:32:52 pm They must have cured that problem as the 8V-92s are still manufactured today by MTU (Mercedes) for overseas or military sales while the 6V-92, 71 and 60 series are all history with only re-manufactured engines available. As I remember, at least the rod bearings are the same and interchangeable between the 71 and 92s. Don't know about the mains.Pierce Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #46 – June 20, 2014, 05:45:18 pm Pierce,Maybe MTU has made sone changes. The bearing issue is why a very few charter & Greyhound stayed with the 6V. How the 50 wt idea showed up was from a charter opr in Denver, they did not like the low power from the 6V, so started replacing mains in the 8V every 50 k miles, but that did not solve the issue, so out of desperation they tried the 50wt and had no further problems,Why I ran 50 wt in my 92 creations, no issues even at the 835 hp 8v-92 toy. Of course I did not run it but about 15,000 miles in a bus, so only loaded it up very seldom on big mountain running, hit bottom at 55 and quickly into the 90 - 100 while still on steep grade.Also got an education on radiator cooling/fans/mister system.Have had a lot of fun, spent some $$$, but the experience was worth it. Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #47 – June 20, 2014, 05:51:00 pm Nice looking 16V-92s with one installed in a South American big rig at: 16V-92 detroit - Google SearchLooks like a good job of splicing a couple of 8V-92s together. Of course, EMD just uses a giant version of the 53, 71 and 92 series in their locomotives today. 20 gallons an hour at idle and 200 while pulling a train.Pierce Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #48 – June 20, 2014, 05:57:47 pm Quote from: Dave M – June 20, 2014, 05:22:55 pmThe unique issue is mainly the 8V has a habit of spinning the rear main, the 6V does not have that issue.In general the 8V is a great engine as long as you are aware of the issue, that is why everyone that pays attention runs 50 wt oil, this seems to have eliminated the bearing issue.Both engines use the same bearings, the rear main in the 8V seems to be very tender with the amount of stress applied.Interesting. I have experience with an MCI coach with an 8v-71, and I've read a lot about various coaches (up through the mid-90s) that used the 8-V92. I've read that the 8V-71 was generally more reliable than the 8V-92, but I've never read any specific reason(s).Both Bluebird Wanderlodge and Newell used a lot the 8V-92 engines. Did they had a lot of problems? Quote Selected
Re: Help set me straight....Country Coach Reply #49 – June 20, 2014, 06:12:33 pm I once asked the shop foreman why they kept the 8V-71 engines in stock remaned when they had a few 8V-92 engines ready, why not use only the 92 engines. That was an education for me, he said the 71cost about $3,500 to rebuild and would run 400,000 miles and the 92 cost about $6,000 to build and they lasted about 200,000 miles, so he asked "Why do you think we keep a lot of 71 engines". Their fleet is about 110 mostly MCI coaches.Speaking MCI only the7 has the structure for the 12V-71 along with the 6 (was factory build) the newer 8, 9 & newer do not have the structure to hold the weight and torque of the 12.I lived this game over 20 years, not book educated, but know what end of a wrench to use. Quote Selected
Topic: Help set me straight....Country Coach