Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Topic: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem ..... (Read 3478 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #50 – September 06, 2014, 03:05:06 pm

Quote from: Raymond Jordan – September 06, 2014, 02:15:28 pm

If it is just the belt, you got off easy.

Raymond,

I have my fingers crossed although something caused that belt to disintegrate.

In my crude attempt at troubleshooting, I discovered that the pulley on the compressor turned freely. I tried to turn the other pulley to which the belt is attached, and the Cummins monster just laughed at me.

Trent

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #51 – September 06, 2014, 07:18:35 pm

Quote from: TulsaTrent – September 06, 2014, 03:05:06 pm

In my crude attempt at troubleshooting, I discovered that the pulley on the compressor turned freely.

Turning the pulley on the compressor will tell you only whether or not that bearing is bad, unless the compressor clutch is engaged. The clutch is electromagnetic and will engage the compressor only if there is sufficient refrigerant and the air conditioner is calling for cooling. If the compressor is seized then the belt will likely be destroyed when the clutch is engaged.

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #52 – September 06, 2014, 11:26:12 pm

Quote from: D.J. Osborn – September 06, 2014, 07:18:35 pm

Turning the pulley on the compressor will tell you only whether or not that bearing is bad

David,

I think you just told me that since my pulley turns freely (and everything is off), my bearings are not bad. That's a good thing, right?

Does anyone who is willing to share know what that length of that belt is? It appears to be a simple V-groove belt. I inherited a couple of belts and can attempt to install one of them, but I would rather know which one is the right one first.

I do not have much experience replacing belts, but I do recall someone mentioning recently that it was easier to install it on the smallest pulley last. Thank you, whoever you are, for sharing that tip.

Trent

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #53 – September 07, 2014, 08:12:35 am

Quote from: TulsaTrent – September 06, 2014, 11:26:12 pm

I think you just told me that since my pulley turns freely (and everything is off), my bearings are not bad. That's a good thing, right?
Trent

Trent,
Right...... to a certain extent. That particular bearing allows the belt to rotate with the AC system off & the engine running; winter operation, for example.

When you rotated the pulley on the compressor, with everything off, the pulley should rotate freely (as you said it did) and the center of that pulley (attached to the actual shaft of the compressor) should be stationary. That is the first test.

Next, WITH EVERYTHING OFF, try to rotate the CENTER of that same pulley. You will need a strong hand and may not be able to move it anyway. If you can move it, it will turn like a small engine. It has compression. If you can't turn it, try the next step.

DO NOT START ENGINE! Have a helper turn the ignition key to "ON" then turn on the dash AC while you are looking at the AC compressor. MAKE SURE THE HELPER UNDERSTANDS NOT TO START ENGINE!!!!! You should hear a "CLICK" as the electromagnetic clutch engages. Now the pulley and the center should be engaged as one unit and you should be able to rotate the entire unit with you hand. It should turn, not make any noise, other than perhaps a slight hissing internally, and have some resistance as the compressor tries to compress the refrigerant. If you cannot turn it at all, the compressor is locked up and needs replacing.

TOM

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #54 – September 07, 2014, 08:18:00 am

Quote from: TulsaTrent – September 06, 2014, 11:26:12 pm

Does anyone who is willing to share know what that length of that belt is? It appears to be a simple V-groove belt. I inherited a couple of belts and can attempt to install one of them, but I would rather know which one is the right one first.

Trent

Gates 9476 cummins-c8.3-belts-hoses-filters 2000

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #55 – September 07, 2014, 10:45:06 am

Tom,

Thank you very much for the detailed trouble shooting steps. They are going into my Foretravel Owners Manual.

Actually, I moved it to a larger binder so I could include additional information in the apropos section.

Trent

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #56 – September 07, 2014, 10:47:27 am

Quote from: Barry Beam – September 07, 2014, 08:18:00 am

Gates 9476 cummins-c8.3-belts-hoses-filters 2000

Barry,

Thank you for the information and the link. You're in the book, too (in more than one place).

Trent

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #57 – September 07, 2014, 05:07:37 pm

Quote from: TulsaTrent – September 07, 2014, 10:47:27 am

Barry,
You're in the book, too (in more than one place).
Trent

Is that a good thing

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #58 – September 07, 2014, 07:29:51 pm

Quote from: TulsaTrent – September 06, 2014, 11:26:12 pm

David,

I think you just told me that since my pulley turns freely (and everything is off), my bearings are not bad. That's a good thing, right?

The bearings on the compressor clutch appear to be good, but there is much more to the story. The information others have provided here is right on target.

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #59 – September 07, 2014, 10:13:57 pm

Quote from: Barry Beam – September 07, 2014, 05:07:37 pm

Is that a good thing

Very good; you add several thousand dollars to the value of my Foretravel.

Thanks,

Trent

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #60 – September 09, 2014, 08:00:19 am

Anyone messing with belts should have a tension gauge. You can get them At NAPA or on line. You can't properly tension a ribbed belt without one.

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #61 – August 26, 2017, 10:26:25 am

Quote from: amos.harrison – September 09, 2014, 08:00:19 am

Anyone messing with belts should have a tension gauge. You can get them At NAPA or on line. You can't properly tension a ribbed belt without one.

Once you have the tension gauge.
How do you know how much to set the tension. No number is indicated on the Gates 9476 Manufacturer wrap/paper.
Thank you,
AL

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Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #62 – August 26, 2017, 12:18:47 pm

As far as I know the automatic belt tensioners have 2 marks and a pointer and while running the pointer should be between the 2 marks,what is there to adjust?When the spring or the bearing wears out you replace and save the old one in case the new one falls apart you'll have a spare.

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #63 – August 26, 2017, 12:36:09 pm

If we are talking about the automatic belt tensioners, they can fail in three ways:

1. Bearings can fail
2. Tensioner spring can fail or weaken allowing belt slippage
3. The dampening function can fail. This is one of the more common failures and identifiable by the bouncing of the belt. VERY hard on the bearings of all accessories it drives.

Here is a short video on #3 by Gates Corp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTLV5IU_IMM

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #64 – August 26, 2017, 01:22:47 pm

There is no auto belt tensioner for the Air Conditioner Compressor Belt (Gates 9476 for ISL 400) Mine just broke off.
I will perform Reply #53 OldMenSax steps in an hour. Going to get the belt. I think when we replaced the water pump, we did not reinstall the Air Conditioner Compressor belt with correct tension, it had looked a bit lose. However the AC Compressor was replaced about year ago so i am hoping there is no issues there.

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #65 – August 26, 2017, 01:28:07 pm

Quote from: propman – August 26, 2017, 01:22:47 pm

There is no auto belt tensioner for the Air Conditioner Compressor Belt (Gates 9476 for ISL 400).

Correct, on the Cummins C and L, the A/C compressor is "manually" adjusted by rotating the compressor. All other accessories are on the serpentine belt/automatic tensioner.

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #66 – August 26, 2017, 05:50:43 pm

Quote from: OldManSax – September 07, 2014, 08:12:35 am

Trent,
Right...... to a certain extent. That particular bearing allows the belt to rotate with the AC system off & the engine running; winter operation, for example.

When you rotated the pulley on the compressor, with everything off, the pulley should rotate freely (as you said it did) and the center of that pulley (attached to the actual shaft of the compressor) should be stationary. That is the first test.

Next, WITH EVERYTHING OFF, try to rotate the CENTER of that same pulley. You will need a strong hand and may not be able to move it anyway. If you can move it, it will turn like a small engine. It has compression. If you can't turn it, try the next step.

DO NOT START ENGINE! Have a helper turn the ignition key to "ON" then turn on the dash AC while you are looking at the AC compressor. MAKE SURE THE HELPER UNDERSTANDS NOT TO START ENGINE!!!!! You should hear a "CLICK" as the electromagnetic clutch engages. Now the pulley and the center should be engaged as one unit and you should be able to rotate the entire unit with you hand. It should turn, not make any noise, other than perhaps a slight hissing internally, and have some resistance as the compressor tries to compress the refrigerant. If you cannot turn it at all, the compressor is locked up and needs replacing.

TOM

Well I did all that. In the attached images where we see the white front with a dark grey triangle section (I think is the center part is freely moving by hand when everything is in off position. When i followed the above steps that center part kept moving freely by hand however before or after I could never turn the part (pulley?) where the belt rides on at all. The compressor is few months shy of two years old. Do i have a bad compressor? I am afraid if i install the new belt, it is also going to brake.

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #67 – August 26, 2017, 07:47:17 pm

Sounds like a bad bearing on the pulley do not know if the compressor is bad.

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #68 – August 28, 2017, 09:11:14 am

Quote from: propman – August 26, 2017, 05:50:43 pm

Well I did all that. In the attached images where we see the white front with a dark grey triangle section (I think is the center part is freely moving by hand when everything is in off position. When i followed the above steps that center part kept moving freely by hand however before or after I could never turn the part (pulley?) where the belt rides on at all. The compressor is few months shy of two years old. Do i have a bad compressor? I am afraid if i install the new belt, it is also going to brake.

What Ron said. I think the bearing is bad also. That area should not be white. Normally that indicates severe overheating, usually caused by failed(ing) bearing or compressor. The clutch assembly can be replaced but be careful not to damage the shaft seal. Damage will cause eventual loss of refrigerant. When you turn the inner (white) part, does it turn smoothly? Like a small engine would turn? It should be smooth with some compression felt as it is BEING TURNED IN THE CORRECT DIRECTION. It will (should) have hard compression if turned in the wrong direction.

TOM

TOM

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #69 – August 28, 2017, 09:49:45 am

On the pulley where the belt goes does it spin freely? If not Bearing is bad. New compressor clutch will be needed.
Can you turn the triangle part multiple revolutions? If not compressor is locked up. Make sure it will turn at least 3 or 4 full revolutions. They can throw a rod an turn about 7/8th around and then lock up. If everything spins put a belt on it and see what happens.
If you do need a compressor clutch it's almost cheaper to buy the whole compressor. I just replaced mine on my 91 New Sanden Compressor was about 185.00 T/X valve about 25.00 and Filter dryer about 15.00 We have a Campbell Brown here in Charlotte,Nc is where I buy my A/C parts from also Hoses etc.

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #70 – August 28, 2017, 10:49:54 am

@ OldManSax (Reply#68) "When you turn the inner (white) part, does it turn smoothly?" Yes and without much force at all. "It will (should) have hard compression if turned in the wrong direction" it turns to both directions the same way, maybe a slight resistance when turned the opposite direction.
@ stump (Reply #69)"On the pulley where the belt goes does it spin freely?" No it does not at all. I tried by hand only, but really tried. "Can you turn the triangle part multiple revolutions?" Yes, with just 3 fingers, no problem.
Two years ago, immediately after we purchased it I had Industrial Power in Fort Worth, TX do some work. At that time for $1192 they "Installed new AC Compressor and Receiver Drier and low pressure switch, Evacuated and charged AC system with R-134A" It worked fine for 2 years. But relative to amount of time we use and run the AC its life span was very very short.
Stump when you were able to replace the Compressor on your own how does it work, when unbolted, I assume Refrigerant will escape, unless it is professionally Evacuated. I believe I can figure out a way to Evacuate and capture R-134A. So I have a way of doing that, is it just unbolt/remove and install a new one? If it is as easy as it sounds I sure would like to not pay so much for it again.
Thank you,
AL

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #71 – August 28, 2017, 12:43:01 pm

Al If the belt pulley will not turn the bearing is bad. I have all the tools and equipment to do A/C service work. I was hvac contractor before I started Trucking. I have the old clutch still on my compressor that went bad on my peterbilt and I have the one on the R-12 compressor that was on my Foretravel. I can Pull one off if you think it would work on yours. You can borrow the clutch hub puller tools from Autozone, Advance Auto,Etc for free just leave a deposit on your CC. Plenty of videos on Youtube to show you how.

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #72 – August 28, 2017, 02:47:53 pm

Quote from: stump – August 28, 2017, 12:43:01 pm

Al If the belt pulley will not turn the bearing is bad. I have all the tools and equipment to do A/C service work. I was hvac contractor before I started Trucking. I have the old clutch still on my compressor that went bad on my peterbilt and I have the one on the R-12 compressor that was on my Foretravel. I can Pull one off if you think it would work on yours. You can borrow the clutch hub puller tools from Autozone, Advance Auto,Etc for free just leave a deposit on your CC. Plenty of videos on Youtube to show you how.

I found some videos and actually got excited. If i am lucky looks like I don't have to mess with compressor lines. Just from the front remove the clutch and the pulley and replace what needs to be replaced to fix the clutch and or the pulley bearing?

I wonder our FT AC Compressor is GM like. GM type requires some specific tools but other than that don't look too difficult.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URqFd3KkSRY

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #73 – August 28, 2017, 02:50:06 pm

What Stump said. Pulley should spin freely by hand with little or no noise.

TOM

Re: Need Help With Dash A/C Problem .....

Reply #74 – August 28, 2017, 03:38:45 pm

This Video is applicable to your compressor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuX3Pwde6-g

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