Question about basement storage

Topic: Question about basement storage (Read 1374 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #25 – July 09, 2014, 10:06:52 am

Quote from: Tom Lang – July 09, 2014, 09:42:42 am

I consider my coach completely filled with stufff.

At the FMCA rally this year, I had it weighed. Very pleased to find nearly a thousand pounds of capacity remaining in the front, another thousand+ in the back, and side to side distribution dead even. This with all tanks full and a non-tag 38' U295. I can still safely add a ton of stuff, literally.
The guy who did the weighing said this has unusual, but he doesn't weigh that many Foretravels. The usual sob is overweight with massive side to side weight imbalance.

Okay, I feel a little better. And Mike, I wouldn't leave the wife home. If anything, it would be the other way around.

As far as weight imbalance goes, i wonder how much of that is influenced by the way the coach or trailer is laid out. I've noticed a lot of newer trailers and coaches have refrigerators in the slides, for instance, which would seem to me to make it easier for one side to be out of balance and/or require even more thought to how the rig is loaded.

I need to get our trailer weighed, but I think we are lucky in the the refrigerator is not on a slide and is located just forward of the axles on one side while the stove, sink and heavy countertops are over and just rear of the axles on the opposite side of the trailer. We did shed a little weight by taking out the boat anchor TV. The only way to remove any additional excess weight might be for me to leave the food and beverage at home, and that's not happening.

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #26 – July 09, 2014, 10:25:23 am

Tom, our weighing experience was similar. Only 200 lbs difference between heavy wheel and light wheel with lots of available cargo weight left. Tech said that was not unusual for a Foretravel.
An interesting note about CCC. We have a 38 ft. with tag axle and travel lite (we are full timers) and after Smart Weigh, found we have an additional 6,000 lbs of CCC before overloading the coach. But because of the tag, we have limited (compared to some others) storage space and I don't think we could carry an additional 6,000 lbs if we tried.
But our coach seems to fit us perfectly and that's what counts!

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #27 – July 09, 2014, 10:51:56 am

Tom,

The specs sheet doesn't show the NCC weight for your coach. What is the NCC number off of the sticker next to the drivers seat?

It seems like you travel really light with that much spare capacity.

Mike B.

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #28 – July 09, 2014, 11:02:15 am

Bill,

Be careful about CCC and NCC. If you are pulling a trailer or car, you can load them up as long as you stay under CCC, BUT, you still need to stay under NCC for just the coach weight.

You shouldn't exceed NCC for the coach even though the toad or trailer is under weight.

Again, IMHO

Mike B.

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #29 – July 09, 2014, 11:02:49 am

Speaking of weight, for the most part Foretravels have very generous NCC or CCC compared to most SOB's. Particularly when comparing non-tag Foretravels to size equivalent non-tag SOB's. We looked at what I thought was a nice Gulfstream Sunvoyager (98' 38ft. 1 slide), until I drove it... It wallowed on the slightest turn had leaned so much going around a corner that I feared it might tip over. Not to mention it was grossly under powered with C8.3 Cummins rated at 275hp. When we returned from the test drive, I examined the weight placard and found that with full fresh water, fuel, propane, and nothing else, we would be able to put less than 1200lbs (including us!) in it to be within specs. That was the first motorhome I had ever driven and I thought that if they were all like that (as the salesman would have had me believe

), I would have to adjust my expectations downwards.

Our Non-slide 99' U270 has a NCC of 5950lbs., and an UVW from the factory of 25050lbs. We full time in it and on our recent pilgrimage to Meccadoches, I carried a lot of tools and hardware with us as well as everything else you would normally carry. When we weighed at the Escapees park in Livingston, our GVW was under our GVWR by 1200lbs. with 200lbs available for the rear and 1000lbs. for the front axle. Side to side was within a 100 pounds on the rear and about 225 pounds in front. We had full fresh water, fuel, and propane and nearly empty waste tanks as proscribed by Escapees. The weigh master was impressed and said she would have given us a merit badge if she had any

Our main storage bay has about 29" of vertical clearance and a Joey bed that is about 5'X8' and slides out at least ¾ of the way on either side. Additionally, you can create more storage in numerous nooks and crannies and there is space for an extra compartment behind the driver's side rear duallie that measures about 24" deep by 17" wide by 32" tall (which we did on ours). The 34' non-slide U270's have even more NCC because the UVW is less, but of course not quite as storage volume since the storage bay is 4' across instead of 6'.
Don

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #30 – July 09, 2014, 11:44:38 am

Ok Don, seeing a couple gizmos/connection not familiar with.

Turquoise handel near the water hose? Sewer?
Yellow cord? What is it connected to?

Thanks in advance!

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #31 – July 09, 2014, 12:00:10 pm

Mike, the cargo carrying capacity (CCC) of our coach is 7433 lbs. I do not have a NCC number.
My GCWR is 52,000 lbs. My actual travel weight with "stuff", full fresh water, all fuels and toad is 40,490 lbs as per Smart Weigh.

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #32 – July 09, 2014, 12:36:25 pm

The Turquoise Handle device is the nozzle end of the WasteMaster sewer hose and the Yellow cord is a 10AWG 20 amp extension cord plugged into our Conex box which contains the contents of my wood shop and automotive etc. tools among other things... there are about 5 spaces close enough to it to allow the use of our electric utility pole to run over to the box. Much of my time these days is spent on organizing stuff

Don

Quote from: fouroureye – July 09, 2014, 11:44:38 am

Ok Don, seeing a couple gizmos/connection not familiar with.

Turquoise handel near the water hose? Sewer?
Yellow cord? What is it connected to?

Thanks in advance!

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #33 – July 09, 2014, 01:05:01 pm

Bill,

The NCC number should be on the "Motorhome weight information" placard next to the Manufacturers data plate in the coach.

As it stated in the document that I attached earlier. "NCC (net carrying capacity): the maximum weight of all occupants including the driver, food, tools, LP gas, fresh water, personal belongings, dealer-installed accessories, and the tongue weight of the towed vehicle that can be carried by this motorhome."

To calculate this, I believe, you need to weight just the coach wheels with the toad with gear attached but not on the scale (to get the tongue weight also).

NCC is based on GVWR minus UVW not GCWR minus UVW.

All of these acronyms make my head spin like peas under a thimble.

Just trying to promote safety.

Mike B.

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #34 – July 09, 2014, 03:27:48 pm

My friend Clark is a long time Foretravel owner, and I like his thoughts regarding the weight. It effects your mileage, so take only what you need.

Just my 2 cents. I have plenty of space in the basement in case I make a purchase or 2 on the road. Makes it easy to haul it home.

Cheers!

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #35 – July 09, 2014, 04:24:31 pm

My placard does not include some of the information stated., a 94 u280.

What am I missing?

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #36 – July 09, 2014, 04:59:49 pm

John,

Some information is here: 1994 Foretravel U280 Specifications

You can call James at Foretravel and he can give you all of the data that should be on the data plates in your coach, I believe, by the driver's elbow or door.

You can then use the info from: Understanding motorhome weights

to calculate the other numbers.

Other owners of the same coach as yours might have the data if James is out of town.

Mike B.

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #37 – July 09, 2014, 05:40:47 pm

Mike, thanks!

Wonder if ther is a way to get a new placard? Looks like 96 n 2000 new info on the placards.

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #38 – July 09, 2014, 06:20:32 pm

Mike,
My head is definitely spinning. Our GVWR is 42,000 lbs. Our coach, ready to travel with full fuel and water, 2 adults aboard, toad connected, was weighed at each wheel (coach only) and totaled to weigh 35,860 lbs. if I understand this correctly, that gives me an additional capacity of 6,140 lbs. I took photo of weight data plate of my 2003.
If I am misunderstanding these numbers...would like to know. Thanks!

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #39 – July 09, 2014, 08:39:03 pm

Bill,

Let's look at the numbers on the data plates and work at the math.

If you weighed 35,860 lbs. and your UVW (factory, fuel, coolant, oil) is 33,134 lbs. then you are carrying only 2726 lbs. of "stuff" (NCC) see below.

Your fixed portions of NCC contains: fresh water = 1,054
gray water = 955
black water = 464
propane = 71
-------
2,544
tongue wt. = xx
you, wife, food, tools, dealer extras (Sat TV, etc) = xxx
-----
2,726

Solve for xx and xxx. You might have weighed with the ALL tanks drained, but the numbers look suspect. 180 lbs. of you'se guys, tongue weight, and "stuff"? Something looks fishy. Your 35,860 lbs. could be good. If so, bring on the freezer, bowling balls, solar panels and friends!

Your basics might look like this. 33,134 (UVW) + 2,544 (basic NCC above) = 35,678

add to this factory options, tongue weight, people, food, tools, etc. (6322 lbs) and you need to stay under 42,000 lbs.

With your toad (filled with your "stuff") ( her stuff is in the coach) all up is <52,000 lbs. That is all tanks full, coach serviced, friends.

GVWR => UVW + NCC 42,000 => 33,134 + 8,866 (or less)

Others can check my numbers. Maybe I'm missing something.

Again, check the definitions in the earlier attachment about NCC and CCC.

Do these numbers make sense to you?

Mike B.

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #40 – July 09, 2014, 11:14:05 pm

I'm not quite sure I understand all of this yet, but I think it will get there as the discussion continues. Thanks for the ongoing dialogue. It is very informative, even if I don't quite "get" all of it at the moment.

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #41 – July 10, 2014, 12:22:35 am

Mike,
Now my head is backward

.
If the GVWR for any vehicle is say 20,000 lbs and when weighed with reliable scales weighs only say 17,000 lbs...does that not allow for that vehicle to safely carry an additional 3000 lbs?

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #42 – July 10, 2014, 03:04:39 am

Quote from: Bill & Donna – July 10, 2014, 12:22:35 am

Mike,
Now my head is backward .
If the GVWR for any vehicle is say 20,000 lbs and when weighed with reliable scales weighs only say 17,000 lbs...does that not allow for that vehicle to safely carry an additional 3000 lbs?

Yes, so long as you don't put too much weight on one wheel or axle.

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #43 – July 10, 2014, 03:08:52 am

This should help you visualize the weights of my 2003 38' non-tag U295.

I thought it was very full at the time, with nearly full tanks, interior cupboards, and outside bays. This includes one full width bay and one that would have been full width except for the 3 8D equipment bay on the other side.

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #44 – July 10, 2014, 08:17:34 am

Here's a useful description of the weight terms from FMCA

Understanding motorhome weights

Specifically related to the RVIA weight plate (which appears to have been formally established in 1996 and changed in 2000):

RVIA weight label

In September 1996, the Recreation Vehicle Industry Association (RVIA) established a requirement for its RV manufacturer members to disclose weight carrying information that would assist both a buyer and an owner in understanding and complying with weight limitations of motorhomes. The following terms and their associated weights are reflected on a label, found in a cabinet inside the coach.

UVW (unloaded vehicle weight): the weight of the motorhme as built at the factory with full fuel, engine oil and coolants. The UVW does NOT include cargo, fresh water, LP gas, occupants or dealer-installed accessories.

NCC (net carrying capacity): the maximum weight of all occupants including the driver, food, tools, LP gas, fresh water, personal belongings, dealer-installed accessories, and the tongue weight of the towed vehicle that can be carried by this motorhome. (NCC can be determined by subtracting the UVW from the GVWR.)

It's important to look at the definition of each term, particularly the UVW and NCC. Note that UVW is defined as leaving the factory with full fuel, oil and coolants. The NCC represents how much "stuff," including fresh water, the motorhome can carry.

The UVW does not include the weight of any dealer-installed accessories, which means the buyer must deduct the weight of these accessories from the NCC.

Keep in mind that NCC is the total carrying capacity. However, the distribution of the weight plays a role. So, it may not be possible to load a motorhome to its NCC without exceeding an axle or tire rating. Weighing your motorhome by individual wheel position after you have loaded it is the only way to be certain that you are not exceeding any limitations.

In September 2000, the RVIA modified the label to provide more detail for the buyer/owner. The term NCC is no longer used. Two new terms are found on the label, along with their associated weights:

SCWR (sleeping capacity weight rating): the manufacturer's designated number of sleeping positions multiplied by 154 pounds (70 kilograms).

CCC (cargo carrying capacity): the GVWR minus each of the following: UVW, full fresh (potable) water weight (including water heater), full LP-gas weight, and SCWR.

This new label permits the buyer/owner to determine the carrying capacity (CCC) based on a personal calculation of actual passengers carried, the amount of fresh water onboard, and the amount of LP-gas carried.

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #45 – July 10, 2014, 08:30:08 am

Bill,

Your statement is correct, as long as you conform to Tom's statement that followed.

Maybe my point wasn't clear.

I wasn't there when you weighed and I can't dispute the scale that you were weighed on, however, to me, the number seem askew.

If you weighed in at 35,860 lbs. and the coach from the factory weighed 33,134+, all of the water, propane and your food and gear weighed only 2726 lbs.

You said full fuel and water and two people. If we assume that you gray and black tanks were totally empty, and the fuel IS part of the factory load, and you and the boss weighed 260 together, that leaves:

35,860 (scale) - 33,134 (factory) - 1,125 (water + propane) - 260 (you + wife) = what's left = 1341 lbs. of tongue weight, food, tools, parts, sat tv, residual water in black + gray tanks, books, clothes, and factory installed and custom options that weren't in the basic factory weight.

You loaded the "stuff" in the coach. Does 1341 seem reasonable?

Did you weigh each wheel (as Tom's sheet shows)? Do the numbers add up? If they do, then you are good to go, and don't mind my posts.

You then have your number, 6,140 lbs. additional capacity for JUST the coach with no toad. (Hopefully, evenly distributed over each wheel/tire.)

With the toad, you need to keep under 52,000 lbs. GCWR (toad + coach) AND under 42,000 lbs. GVWR (coach) AND under xx,xxx Front - xx,xxx Rear GAWR (axle) AND under EACH Tire weight limit. (You need to research those numbers)

I know the acronyms are confusing, but you need to understand them so you don't break anything, get weighed, or void your insurance if you have an accident.

I hope this helps.

Mike B.

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #46 – July 10, 2014, 10:38:34 am

Michelle, thanks for the detail.

My question remains, do I need documents other than my placard?
Maybe I am missing it in the manual, especially the uvr and I don't have a gcwr on the placard.

Gcwr includes towd correct?

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #47 – July 10, 2014, 11:43:58 am

Yes, the GCWR includes the toad. That weight is the TOTAL weight of coach, toad, people, pets, stuff, etc. That is the absolute maximum your whole rig should weigh.

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #48 – July 10, 2014, 11:57:10 am

Understood about gcwr

Unfortunately that designation is not listed on my placard, only gawr and gvwr.

Gvwr and gcwr are not the same number, correct?

David I think since same year and they didn't change requirements till 96 yours should list same as mine. Did you ever weigh yours empty?

So goes the question, do I need another document?

Re: Question about basement storage

Reply #49 – July 10, 2014, 12:22:48 pm

Mike,
We weighed the coach a few months after our purchase and first 6 week trip. Weighted by Smart Weigh at Livingston in December of 2013. We were/are new to full time RVing and were a little lighter than we are now I would guess. So here are the actual numbers.

We weighed in at 35,860 lbs. and our UVW as per the data tag is 33,134 lbs. so the difference of 2726 lbs. is the weight of the "stuff" we are carrying.

Our "fixed portions", as weighed, of our CCC contain: Fresh Water = 929 lbs. Full 112 gal tank @ 8.3 lbs./gal.
Grey Water = empty
Black Water = empty
Propane = 44 lbs. 17 gal. tank, gauge showing 60%
______
973 lbs.

Tongue wt. 60 lbs. estimated weight of Blue Ox tow bar
Bill & Donna 362 lbs. I'm the heavy one

Food, tools, supplies, etc. 1331 lbs.
_______
2726 lbs.

So basics look like this. 33,134 lbs. (UVW) + 973 lbs. (basic NCC / CCC from above) = 34,107 lbs., adding to this + people, tongue wt., food, tools, supplies, etc., 2726 lbs. gives me 36,833 lbs., 5,167 lbs. below the GVWR of 42,000 lbs.

My Smart Weigh numbers are as follows:

Left Front = 5750 Left Rear = 8450 Left Tag = 3530
Right Front = 5970 Right Rear = 8550 Right Tag = 3610
____ ____ ____
11,720 17,000 7,140

Added together = 35860 lbs.

GVWR of 42,000 lbs. less actual travel weight of 35,860 lbs. = 6,140 lbs.

The actual weight of the coach includes all that is carried by the coach at that time so if my understanding of all these numbers is correct, there is 6,140 lbs. of cargo carrying capacity left.

The weight data plate shows a CCC of 7,344 lbs. while my numbers show: GVWR = 42,000 lbs. less;

UVW = 33,134 lbs.
Fresh Water = 929 lbs.
Full LP tank = 72 lbs.
Actual people weight (SCWR) = 362 lbs.
______
34,497 lbs. subtracted from the GVWR leaves 7,503 lbs., not that far from the data sheet value of 7,433 lbs.
So it appears I'm good to go

if all of this is correct.

Thanks Mike and others who have responded and made this a great re-learning experience for me. I went through all this when we bought the coach but after a while it gets vague and it pays to refresh. The penalty for being lax in so many areas of these coaches can be costly in many ways.

Safe Travels Everyone!

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