Former FT owners with SOBs?

Topic: Former FT owners with SOBs? (Read 2008 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #25 – September 04, 2014, 09:26:46 pm

Our. 2001 came from the original owner in 2011. It was in CA, in a garage, used 4000 miles a year by mid 70's couple. Wife did not drive. Time to hang it up, reluctantly. A year later they bought a new 30' or so Class C that she could drive. They are back on the short trip program. Good for us. Good for them.

Roger

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #26 – September 04, 2014, 11:40:49 pm

A couple of years ago, on a quick trip to Dallas, we stayed overnight in a Wal Mart in Lancaster, PA. When we got up the next morning, there was a gorgeous Liberty Prevost conversion next to us. As I was making ready to leave, the owner came out and introduced himself.
He complimented me on the looks of our coach and trailer setup. I asked if he knew anything about Foretravels. Yes, he said, and explained:
He had purchased a new 1998 U270. About five years later, after selling his business, his wife fell in love with a new U320. Only a year or two later, they fell in love with a four slide Newell. About four years after that, they "escaped the Newell money pit" and moved to a two slide 2009 (or so) Liberty Classic Lady (and found, what he called, the "mother lode of all money pits").
He lamented that he had become deluged with problems and complications and that they both had enjoyed RV'ing less ever since moving away from their first love, the U270 Foretravel.
He asked me to remember his story anytime I might be tempted to trade out of the U270 simple life. He repeated several times that he was sorely tempted to "buy a screen door with a set of deploying steps attached to a U270 mechanical, because after spending millions, he had neither happiness nor a screen door/steps to show for it."
We spent more than two hours talking and he gave me a long tour of the Liberty. I've often wished that I had recorded our conversation because he had many great sayings/words of wisdom. Things along the lines of:

"KISS"

"New or used, It is always less costly to overpay for a good coach than to "steal" a coach with (design, maintenance, neglect, damage, hatchet-job upgrade, etc.) problems." (I don't know enough about either of the coaches, but based on the pictures, that might well pertain to the $39K vs. $69.5K '99 U270 discussion of last week)

FT repairs/service = $100 lowest common denominator (LCD)

Newell repairs/service = $1000 LCD

Prevost Conversion repairs/service = $5000 LCD

As we were touring the Liberty, he pointed out dollars spent on problems. That really surprised me as I had always considered Liberty (and Millennium) to be the elites in the conversion world.

I don't remember much of it today, but I do recall him being more than four months at the factory trying to sort out a long list issues, a $50K rivet less siding (XLII) delamination issue that neither Liberty nor Prevost helped with, slides moving out while going down the road, and a "slides out" condition that even Prevost could not get back in, a fuel filter that required four hours of labor (mechanical interference removal) for EACH service, a really expensive (BIG) 24 Vdc alternator that had been replaced numerous times, wrist pin failure(s)? in the DD S60, and so on and so forth.
Anyway, Tim's post brought up this memory and it seems to pertain directly to the question posed.
Neal.

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #27 – September 05, 2014, 02:28:11 am

Quote from: John Haygarth – September 04, 2014, 04:21:50 pm

Paul, not having been in a Vegas Brothel I am glad you told me what they are like inside. Now I do not need to look!
JohnH

Reminds me of the time DW and I spend a few nights at the Tropicana in Las Vegas, mirrors on the ceiling over the bed!

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #28 – September 05, 2014, 10:04:12 am

Yeah, I thot the URL might be bad since I tried to post using my phone. Here is the "proper" post I intended:

Well I haven't been in a Vegas brothel either.

But I have been in one in Port Angeles, WA. It was the last stop of our guided walking tour by the history folks there.

http://www.lazydazers.com/index.cfm?fa=ShowItem&ID=3127

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #29 – September 05, 2014, 10:46:34 am

We'll never be in this category. We had our fill of SOB, and now have our last RV. I see no reason for it not to go another couple decades and barring a winning lotto ticket, see no reason to upgrade to anything else. It's old, but it.. *works*.

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #30 – September 05, 2014, 11:10:33 am

Quote from: twobus – September 05, 2014, 10:46:34 am

We'll never be in this category. We had our fill of SOB, and now have our last RV. I see no reason for it not to go another couple decades and barring a winning lotto ticket, see no reason to upgrade to anything else. It's old, but it.. *works*.

Pretty much our story, as well. If I reach to point where I (or my wife!) don't think I can safely operate this large vehicle, then I might consider something such as a Sprinter-based overnight traveler, but I hope that point is a very long time away!

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #31 – September 05, 2014, 07:10:15 pm

Our last RV before the U225 was an early 70s Streamline Princess. 21' with double sink, after-market (and very good) flameless propane heater, dinette, gaucho, a/c, toilet and shower, and a fridge (propane). We still have it and I suspect that if we no longer can handle the FT we'll just hook the Princess up to our pickup and do shorter trips with more motels/hotels on the way. The pickup gets about 18mpg towing the Princess and the way diesel just jumped up here ($3.80 to $4.25 overnight) that might be importand.

Craig

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #32 – October 17, 2014, 12:39:57 am

Quote from: Neal Pillsbury – September 04, 2014, 11:40:49 pm

He lamented that he had become deluged with problems and complications and that they both had enjoyed RV'ing less ever since moving away from their first love, the U270 Foretravel.
He asked me to remember his story anytime I might be tempted to trade out of the U270 simple life. He repeated several times that he was sorely tempted to "buy a screen door with a set of deploying steps attached to a U270 mechanical, because after spending millions, he had neither happiness nor a screen door/steps to show for it."

I like your story above, but this thought really stuck with me....and was one reason I actually focused on U270s.

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #33 – October 17, 2014, 02:21:36 am

Couple years ago I had my FT in one of Foretravels suggested repair centers, got to yakking with the service manager, was informed the big issue with the Beaver coach was in ability to stop, hardest stopping RV he ever drove, was about all I needed to hear.
Being a gear head, am more interested in the mechanics's than the color of paint.
After 7 years I have not found the weak part other than paint & fiberglass, the metal MCI is more resistant to minor scrapes, but more costly to repair.
Having had a MCI conversion, the desire for a Provost is ZERO,
BTDT

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #34 – October 17, 2014, 09:17:18 am

Over the years we have had a number of people stop by our coach and say they were former Foretravel owners. Each have had much newer coaches but said they regret getting rid of their Foretravels. Not one has said they like their new coach better than their old Foretravel. We have never met a former Foretravel owner who was now happily in an SOB.

I recently met a couple with a new Newmar Essex who were very impressed with our 93 Foretravel. The owner said he had always wanted a Foretravel but just couldn't afford a new one. His wife just couldn't handle having a previously owned coach ergo the Essex.

As David said there may come a time when we want something much smaller and the Sprinter Chassis could be in the future but I don't see any other DP. We are really spoiled by our bullet proof Vintage Foretravel.

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #35 – October 17, 2014, 10:45:25 am

If I were getting another older one other than FT, I'd go for a Country Coach or Safari. Also really like the old Barths. A Country Coach with a Cat C12 would be pretty tempting!
jor

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #36 – October 17, 2014, 10:49:35 am

Quote from: jor – October 17, 2014, 10:45:25 am

If I were getting another older one other than FT, I'd go for a Country Coach or Safari. Also really like the old Barths. A Country Coach with a Cat C12 would be pretty tempting!
jor

No safari. Barfs were heavy and hot and cold and cramped. Country coach yes.

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #37 – October 17, 2014, 10:52:37 am

Quote from: Dave M – October 17, 2014, 02:21:36 am

Couple years ago I had my FT in one of Foretravels suggested repair centers, got to yakking with the service manager, was informed the big issue with the Beaver coach was in ability to stop, hardest stopping RV he ever drove, was about all I needed to hear.
Being a gear head, am more interested in the mechanics's than the color of paint.
After 7 years I have not found the weak part other than paint & fiberglass, the metal MCI is more resistant to minor scrapes, but more costly to repair.
Having had a MCI conversion, the desire for a Provost is ZERO,
BTDT

Old marquis with the gillig bus chassis had giant brake drums that never reached correct operating temps and glazed the pads. Required a chain hoist to remove the 300 pound rear drums to deglaze the ten inch wide pads.

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #38 – October 17, 2014, 11:07:54 am

We have so many people that now own Prevosts come up to us and say they miss their FT so much! You can always tell they've had one, because of the way they admire it from a distance before coming up to us, and then even after they say hello and tell us "their story" they leave, they still stare (and wish for another FT?).

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #39 – October 17, 2014, 04:55:15 pm

Interestingly, I have the opposite experience. I have had a few people tell me that they are glad they switched. Each to their own I guess. I looked very closely at them and decided to stay with what I have now. I will say that I do not think I would pick an IH over a Prevost though. Sadly, FT is not making a new coach that appeals to me. There is no storage and they are way too tall at 13'6". I watched George Bliss move from a early Phenix to an 12 IH and he had a pile of stuff on the living room floor that had no space to go into in the new coach. Interestingly as well, it is on consignment at FT right now. It is a great parking lot day or weekend at the races coach but for long trips, it is not for me. The appalachian trail motorcade would have had a detour for and IH of over 200 miles. It is not an eat coast friendly coach.

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #40 – October 17, 2014, 05:47:02 pm

This height issue got my attention, so I have been on the phone . Here is what I found out . #1 .Newell ,(new) 13ft 3in #2 Prevost (new)with roof air 13ft 3in to 13ft 8in > #3 Foretravel IH (new) 13ft 3in , If in motion sat is installed then 13ft 5in , to top of dome . Maybe we can now sleep more betterly . Brad Metzger

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #41 – October 17, 2014, 05:55:48 pm

Quote from: John S – October 17, 2014, 04:55:15 pm

Sadly, FT is not making a new coach that appeals to me. There is no storage and they are way too tall at 13'6".

It is a great parking lot day or weekend at the races coach but for long trips, it is not for me. The appalachian trail motorcade would have had a detour for and IH of over 200 miles. It is not an east coast friendly coach.

We have no idea what our next coach will be, but definitely not an IH in part for the reasons you mention.

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #42 – October 17, 2014, 07:26:33 pm

XL2 is 12' 7" the market place must be talking as there are not a huge number of IHs and Motorhomes Specialists wanted a phenix sized unit.
Brad it is the H3 that is 13' 3"

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #43 – October 17, 2014, 07:37:37 pm

Here you go.

This says H3 is 12' 5"s from Prevost then you have to put the AC units on top if you have them up there and some do not.
Prevost H3-45 VIP | Prevost

Here is Prevost conversion chassis spec sheet. They convert them too and it show 143 inches overall height.

http://www.prevostcar.com/sites/default/files/le-mirage-xlii-entertainer_specs_2013.pdf

I will still say that the IH is way too tall and looks a bit ungainly but it is not my company or my money either. I wish they would sell a bunch of coaches but I will go out on a limb and say in my opinion the new realm is the make or break coach for them. If they sell 15 of them next year that are ordered, it will go a long way to insuring that FT will continue to grow. It is funny, we have said at multiple grandventions they needed an entry level coach. I talked to a guy who just bought a IH in Dec at the Balloon Fest and he loves it but it was at MHS first and they sent it back to FT since they did not sell it there. FT gave him a very good price on it. I have no reason not to believe him. He called MHS first and they told him they could not sell it too him and to call FOT. HE did and gave them a number and they said no, then he said a few weeks later they called him back and said they would take it.

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #44 – October 18, 2014, 06:57:35 am

With the big three up there with only a couple of inches separating them when they all have roof air, I do not see it as a deal breaker one way or the other on this point . Now if you add sat stuff ( certain types ) this adds to height .From this point it becomes a " very personal" choice . Brad Metzger

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #45 – October 18, 2014, 07:19:18 am

Quote from: John S – October 17, 2014, 07:37:37 pm

Here you go.

This says H3 is 12' 5"s from Prevost then you have to put the AC units on top if you have them up there and some do not.
Prevost H3-45 VIP | Prevost

Here is Prevost conversion chassis spec sheet. They convert them too and it show 143 inches overall height.

http://www.prevostcar.com/sites/default/files/le-mirage-xlii-entertainer_specs_2013.pdf

John,

If one were looking at a newer Prevost, I think XLII has been replaced by X3 starting either 2014 or 2015 Models | Prevost , and spec sheet shows it actually is 2 inches less tall, at 141 inches (11 ft, 9 inches) without roof air http://motorhome.prevostcar.com/sites/default/files/u1/X3-45VIP_specs_110513.pdf

I saw an e-mail from Marathon that they were looking for XLII consignments. Apparently an exceptionally high demand for preowned ones.

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #46 – October 18, 2014, 08:04:35 am

Very true Michelle I did not put it aas there are very few out there but there are more every day. I have seen pirces firm up on buses about 60 K or a bit more this year and the pre 06s are going very fast.

The issue of height is a big issue when yo have 12'7 to 13' 3" Vs 13'5". I have spoken to FT about it and there is wasted space inside. I know they like the flat floor slides and that adds about 4 inches and they want a flat floor front to back to build on for the ability to put things where owners want. I asked cummins how they deal with the coaches with rear baths. The response is if there is not enough room they drop the engine and then fix and ten reinstall. 8 hours to drop and 12 to reinstall.

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #47 – October 18, 2014, 08:21:36 am

One thing the Prevost specs do not include with height are the awnings. Some converters do not use roof air but cruise airs in bays. But every single new prevost conversion has roof topped awnings which will add from 6-12 inches. I have never seen an H3-45 less than 13ft.

So John, yes, i would be concerned about some east coast routes.

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #48 – October 18, 2014, 09:09:05 am

Most of them I have seen are about 13' 3" The IH is 13'5" the XL2s seem to be a bit shorter then the H models too.

Re: Former FT owners with SOBs?

Reply #49 – October 18, 2014, 09:43:47 am

My '04 H3 (which is the converter year, the actual build year for the prevost chassis is 2003) stands at 12' 4", I've personally measured it. I don't have roof airs but I have 4 cruise airs in the basement. The H3 VIP motorhome chassis is actually a raised roof, probably a good 6 inches as compared to the transit bus H3 chassis. The Gerard awnings attach to the sides of the raised portion so they don't add to the height. What does add is the foot tall KVH satellite dish. I'm 12'4" all across the roof of the bus except the KVH protrudes it's bubble head to 13'4". A lower profile dish would really be nice, and there is one available but I'd rather spend $5K on other things!

This is the only coach I've owned that I can take out on a 4000 mile journey, arrive back home, and not have a list of things to work on. The engineering, structure, build quality, simplicity, simply eclipse the wanderlodge I had prior to this coach.

Vantare did a phenomenal job on the electrics. Here's a couple photo albums showing some of there work:

http://plus.google.com/photos/109512148387772548348/albums/6071191918152678481?authkey=COHauI6NmKO9jQE

http://plus.google.com/photos/109512148387772548348/albums/6071202279663365201?authkey=CKq0zdLDvfmO0AE

Vantare also concentrated on house simplicity by eliminating air operated interior devices, eliminating air bladder pressurized slide seals, eliminating transfer switches, eliminating leveling jacks, eliminating 3rd party auto-gen start (instead relying upon the start feature built into the twin Trace SW4024 inverters), pushing all loads thru the inverters and making load management easy.

The coach has many systems and components, but the elimination of hydraulically powered components (prevost uses a belt driven S60 cooling fan), air powered components, and third party control devices like GenCon's, is proving to me that Vantare has added simplicity where it counts. All this adds up to reliability.

It really isn't any more difficult to work on then my blue bird LXi, and in some cases easier (no hydraulics, ample documentation, well labeled electrics and wiring harnesses, etc).

What I love about Foretravel: the unibody construction, the size, the weight, the low profile. The common sense interiors. The common sense trade-offs they made. I think they did a really great job on their coaches over the years. Their early coaches were ahead of their time, in my opinion and fwiw.

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