Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Topic: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure) (Read 8020 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #75 – February 02, 2015, 06:09:15 pm

I didn't ask and James did not say. Only later models were stated . I'll find out and post . Brad Metzger

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #76 – February 02, 2015, 06:14:00 pm

Well, that is a good thing they put it on there. I would say it is not just a FT issue but I worry that the problem will not be solved with only a grease point. I will be looking at your experience closely.

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #77 – February 02, 2015, 07:31:42 pm

Interesting details about the PTO issue.

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #78 – February 02, 2015, 08:03:05 pm

This problem is not for most foretravels that have a belt driven pump. It is for newer models that have a PTO on the transmission that drives the hydraulic pump. A squirt of grease on the splines every now and then will make it last---same as splined couplings in industry.

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #79 – February 02, 2015, 08:12:48 pm

The biggest difference with the Foretravel issue is that a pump failure will disable the cooling fan but not the steering, as Foretravel's have a separate power steering pump. The CC's did not have this auxiliary power steering pump. In addition the wet kit as it is called was used because there was enough room for its installation. foretravel tried this but alas no room so they went to the zerk fitting greasable fitting. This same issue had been shown on certain over the road trucks with ptos. Many went the zerk method and it just is a matter of routine lubrication as with the drive shaft etc., I believe the change occurred some time after Brads build as my 08 doesn't have the fitting, and I am going to upgrade soon with their greasable PTO. Is this going to cost me something yeas but my coach is 8 years old and it was never a safety issue like the CC's. I believe that it only affects coaches from 08 on till the switch.

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #80 – February 02, 2015, 08:28:38 pm

What I don't understand is why foretravel doesn't send out a letter and warn people about problem. My coach had 26,000 miles on it when PTO shelled out ruining the PTO and pump. The final bill was over $4,000.00

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #81 – February 02, 2015, 09:13:58 pm

Quote from: Deford – February 02, 2015, 08:28:38 pm

What I don't understand is why foretravel doesn't send out a letter and warn people about problem. My coach had 26,000 miles on it when PTO shelled out ruining the PTO and pump. The final bill was over $4,000.00

Because if they do, they might be on the hook to pay for it and I doubt that they want to do that. So, it will be spread as usual by this forum and that is why it is so valuable.

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #82 – February 02, 2015, 09:43:39 pm

I crawled under to inspect my PTO. No jerk/grease fitting. One possibility would be to disconnect the pump slightly from the PTO and fill the coupling with grease. May get another 50K miles out of it. Mine has 60K so far. "Knock on wood".

It is tight but with the coach fully raised it is doable.

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #83 – February 02, 2015, 09:47:44 pm

steering and cooling are separate. typical redundant foretravel

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #84 – February 02, 2015, 09:53:20 pm

You might be right about that . Batteries , radiator cap , left wheel bearing ---hell , no telling . The hope is that it is on the bottom area reachable while on a creeper . Didn't know that it had a grease fitting on it until I spoke to James T. . was pleasantly surprised when he told me . Am anxious to look and find it . But here in this CG it is all gravel and not the nice round soft type

. I do have a foldable creeper with me and when on a paved surface I will have a look see where it is on that pump . Brad Metzger

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #85 – February 02, 2015, 10:33:08 pm

James T. said they have seen several of the PTO shaft failures. Enough that they take a "wet lube" kit supplied by Chelsea and rebuild those returned or replaced at FT. Instead of putting a fluid line on the shaft housing where Chelsea threaded, FT installs a zerk fitting because of clearance issues. So this is not an uncommon failure.

Seems FT could have sent out a bulletin and informed everyone to have the kit installed. I would pay for the kit versus, on the side of the road failure, tow, PTO AND Pump replacement costs.

BUT, it took one of our Forum members to inform us.

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #86 – February 02, 2015, 11:31:05 pm

Yup, me too. I would rather fix it before it left me on the side of the road. Fat fell down on that agin. Kind of like the stealth repairs on the old aquahots.

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #87 – February 03, 2015, 12:20:06 am

Quote from: Ted & Karen – February 02, 2015, 02:10:19 pm

I had my Sheppard Steering box replaced last November because it was leaking badly and on the verge of failure. Now I am reading in the CC pdf that the PTO can fail and cause a loss of power steering and hydraulics.

Being a user, not a mechanic, can anyone tell me if this is something I have on my 2001 U270 and how I can check to see if it has a grease zert?

If you have an ISC, I think your hydraulic pump is belt-driven, like ours. Check the left rear of the engine, and if the hydraulic pump is there and belt driven, you don't have PTO drive.

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #88 – February 03, 2015, 08:59:32 am

Think about it , A zerk fitting coats 39 cents , drill a hole , tap it , bingo . The oil bath is just a bit more than 39 cents . Brad Metzger

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #89 – February 03, 2015, 11:39:53 am

I've been digging more on this issue and found that there are numerous posts about this same "dry lube" PTO issue on some Wonder lodge, Prevost, Tiffin and Country Coach units.

Many coach manufacturers put these on with no way to add grease/lube. So it may not be fair to lay it all on FT.

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #90 – February 03, 2015, 12:19:43 pm

As I stated on my original post this PTO issue is very wide spread and the manufacturer never did any changes other than the zerk fitting which Foretravel now orders and puts in on rebuild units. There is a greasable shaft kit that is available however you must take the PTO apart remove old shaft and bushings and then install the new kit. I did not think that I could do this myself so I opted for the rebuilt unit and will send my core to be rebuilt and then used by another. Brad my friend Vincent just installed the wet kit in a Magna and it does require space that does not exist on our current coaches as they were built. That's really all there is to it with the battery bank, pump location etc it simply can't be done without potentially being at risk. Bye the way the wet kit costs approx. $500 so although not inexpensive it is less than the rebuilt unit, or worse the $4000 for pump and PTO

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #91 – February 03, 2015, 03:13:05 pm

No dog in this fight but wouldn't it just be a question of drilling and tapping the (cast iron?) case and screwing in a zerk? No way of doing it in place?

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #92 – February 03, 2015, 03:41:39 pm

I confirmed with Chelsea Parker (the PTO manufacturer) that they supply the PTO with a small grease pack. So the variables determining when the spline fails are simply how much of that grease was applied and how much the PTO is being used (miles driven).

Still seems a good option to separate the PTO from the pump and fill it with grease. Would probably make it good for at lease 50K miles. As some of the failures on Wonderlodge coaches were not showing up until 100K+ miles.

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #93 – February 03, 2015, 06:09:09 pm

I may be out of line, and have no first hand knowledge, but if you had the grease zerk in place, or decided to put one in, why couldn't you run a line out to a more accessible point to add grease on a semi regular basis, without having to move heaven and earth?

Larry

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #94 – February 03, 2015, 06:56:39 pm

I requested some additional information from James T. and he promptly replied with the following. It appears FT was on top of this and had a warranty plan in place to assist owners.

Excerpt from email:
___________________________________
According to our records there are 80 coaches that have the PTO for the hydraulic pump on certain Foretravel Motorcoaches involving Phenix and Nimbus model years 2007-2010.

When we were aware of the potential problem we established 4 levels of service policy for both pre- and post- warranty expiration for our owners with these non-greasable shafts.
· 80 coaches originally had the non-greasable shaft.
· 18 involved ISL engines that have not indicated a service life problem.
· 34 in that unit range have had greasable shafts installed post production.
· Some have had in excess of 70,000 miles without failure.
· 28 PTOs could still be suspect.
· Inspections are still recommended and shafts with fittings greased per our original service bulletin dated 8/18/2011.

Note: Unlike other motorhome manufacturers our pump is for cooling only and does not affect the separate steering pump operation.

Sincerely,
James

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #95 – February 03, 2015, 07:21:25 pm

FWIW, I have seen farm equipment that had grease zerks in inaccessible locations that had small tubing attached at the grease application point and then the tubing terminated in a remote zerk on an accessible panel. Grease all zerks with one grease gun at one location.
Gary B

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #96 – February 03, 2015, 11:40:02 pm

Could someone give me James T email address. Trying to determine if I have this issue or if it had been addressed before I bough the coach.

Thank you

Roy

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #97 – February 04, 2015, 07:31:33 am

Thanks Dave- I'm glad I'm not in for this "fun" down the road.

Good seeing you and Nancy at Q- will see you again down the road.

Ted

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #98 – February 04, 2015, 08:16:09 am

Ralph, Your right, remote zerks would not work on a spinning part, but you could always engineer a blind collar over the shaft to retain the grease.
In Brads case it seems that a remote zerk would work fine as case is stationary if I understand correctly.;
Gary B

Re: Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

Reply #99 – February 04, 2015, 11:36:57 am

@Roy These are the 2 email addresses I have for James.

James Triana <technical.assistance@foretravel.com>
James Triana <warranty.director@foretravel.com>

see ya
ken

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