Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Topic: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 ) (Read 3125 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #25 – January 27, 2015, 10:45:40 pm

well we got in at 9am and out at 3pm and they said all was well now. Hook the car up and drive down the I 10 10 miles and the same thing again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Call the shop and give them a tough time. They call a tow and 2 show up and hook us up and pull the axle loosing a gal of oil. traffic is crazy and no one wants to let us back on freeway. Get back to shop and I tell them that we are in again at 6 30 ama as I am fit to be tied. # breakdowns in a week is a bit much even for a mild mannered Canadian. The saga continues. Ruth now wants to just go home and forget the holiday/Dentist in mexico???
Will get back to you. Oh yes we are now at 1k Dollars and in same boat as a week ago.
JohnH

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #26 – January 28, 2015, 01:38:34 am

John,
We are totally bummed out that you are going through this aggravation! I sure hope the second look by Cummins provides the definitive answer. 1K$ for the wrong answers does not compute!!! But glad you guys are safe...
Don & Tys

Quote from: John Haygarth – January 27, 2015, 10:45:40 pm

Will get back to you. Oh yes we are now at 1k Dollars and in same boat as a week ago.
JohnH

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #27 – January 28, 2015, 07:32:13 am

Hope they figure it out this time. I had a problem on my 2000 that was hard to figure out. Every time I turned on my dash AC it would stall the M11. They used the same breaker for the ECM as they used for the condenser fan. Go figure. Hope they get you fixed up this time.

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #28 – January 28, 2015, 11:33:46 am

John

Sorry to hear about the troubles- at least you and Ruth are safe!!

There is an old saying that bad things happen in 3's- you should be close to the end now.
Best wishes for getting it resolved quickly with a couple of $$ still in your pocket.

Ted

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #29 – January 28, 2015, 05:21:47 pm

I empathize with you and hope that they at Cummins get it right this time. I have experienced being broke down not knowing what to do or who to call. It is a very empty feeling.

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #30 – January 28, 2015, 08:40:38 pm

Low and behold==== just got a phone call from John . He paid another $1,400.00 for an ECM unit , all happy , mechanics smiling and waving as he drove off . He got on HWY # 19 got all the way to exit 92 , broke down again . He is sitting on the side of the road waiting for a wrecker to tow him back to Rocky Mtn. Cummins . He has had it . Said if and when they ever get it fixed , he is going home . Very disgusted is an understatement . To say the least , ( I hurt for him ) Brad Metzger

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #31 – January 28, 2015, 09:25:26 pm

Wow, that is incredible. I hope they figure out what it is without throwing more parts at it. IF I was there, I would just drive it around the building for about 20 miles.

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #32 – January 28, 2015, 09:27:36 pm

Sure do not know what's wrong , but seams to me it might just be a loose wire , broken wire , some module , or something in this think area . I am aware that if what is wrong doesn't show up when in the shop hooked up to the computer , this can keep going on and on . Something simple is not showing up . John has put a pile of cash into it and ends up with the exact problem . Might it be the temp sender ?? or maybe the loose wire or connection to it

Why does it fail when he gets it on the road and gets the temp up to working range and then crap out

Got to stick to riding toys . Brad Metzger

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #33 – January 28, 2015, 09:28:46 pm

OMG, how sad ! AND the frosting on the cake will be when they find some $.19 connector broken.

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #34 – January 28, 2015, 10:27:43 pm

John's brother Geoff here,
Hi Brad and all the Foretravel followers of John's current experience,
I have just put the phone down after talking to him again. He is still waiting for the Tow truck ( 8pm his time ).
This afternoon he told me ( and Brad ) that he will head home ( probably straight to the pit! ) after the Cummings people find what the problem has been. He called his friend Marcel in San Carlos to let him know he will not be going to Mexico and Marcel told him not to cancel his trip but get it towed back to the Cummings Shop, leave it with them, drive to Mexico in the car and tell Cummings to fix it once and for all. At this time I think this is the direction he will take, but after he talks to the Management tomorrow this could change, what he does know is that he really appreciates everyone's ideas, thoughts and comments. I have been in touch with him every day and he is still upbeat but very frustrated.
I am sure he will let us know more when he gets to that reception desk tomorrow, who knows there may be more noise in that room than on Super bowl Sunday! ( the shop is not far from the Stadium ).
Geoffh

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #35 – January 28, 2015, 11:55:16 pm

Words fail me

... You are currently living one of my worst nightmares; you put trust in the professionals who are equipped to do the job and they just throw parts at it. That does it. I am going to find one of these diagnostic devices and the appropriate software so that I can be the one who changes the wrong parts, and then I will pay myself a $110 an hour for screwing up!

Don

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #36 – January 29, 2015, 09:20:04 am

Typing off the top of my head - about something that I don't know much about....but

Could John's problem have something to do with the Banks Stinger system. I think those use a tuner. If something is wrong with that electronic module, it could be confusing the Cummins mechanics.

Just a thought.

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #37 – January 29, 2015, 11:11:42 am

Quote from: Ed – January 29, 2015, 09:20:04 am

Typing off the top of my head - about something that I don't know much about....but

Could John's problem have something to do with the Banks Stinger system. I think those use a tuner. If something is wrong with that electronic module, it could be confusing the Cummins mechanics.

Just a thought.

Doubtful, but would be easy to check as Banks system wiring can be easily converted to original configuration.

Roland

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #38 – January 30, 2015, 08:15:16 am

Is the coach permanently disabled once it quits?
It won't work after all cools down and rests for a while?

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #39 – January 30, 2015, 10:32:57 am

When this type of problem hits someone with Johns experience and creative abilities it shows electronic or electrical breakdowns can happen to anyone. I''m sure John will get it figured out and this will all be a bad memory that will become the topic of many campfire conversations. Memories of all pain diminishes with time.

John and Ruth, you will get through this and everything will be alright. Do you want us to come and get you for the weekend??? We're in Tucson and have a comfortable couch including big white fluffy dog.

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #40 – January 30, 2015, 12:37:41 pm

Well I am back on the air again to let any interested in our saga know we are ok but coachless right now!!
We left it in Phx for a month and decided to drive car down here to San Carlos mexico and be with friends here before heading further south for Dentist.
We have had some very scary moments on I 10 this last week or so and 4 breakdowns and 3 tows. We now know all the tow companies and they are great people. Anyone needing a tow in that area must call Alternate towing in Phx as these guys have the best flat decks system I have ever seen ( and not want to look at again frankly) Our last trip following our coach from 50 miles north of mex border back to Avondale Phx was at 75 mph and arriving at nearly 2 am yesterday!!
This time the throttle stoped a few times them suddenly locked at full throttle sending us hurtling down hwy unable to cut it out or stop coach with retarder and brakes, Ruth was very scared and frankly we thought our time was coming to end in heavy traffic!!
Within a few seconds it cut out again and I got it over on the side. While calling the shop for tow the H Patrol came up as a helicopter had watched us and they sent 2 cars to assist and get us off hwy. I started coach up and was able to limp down ramp to safety. It was 5 hrs to wait for tow and in 10 mins he had the deck on ground and coach on it then he returned the deck back on frame, unbelievable hydraulic system all remote controlled and not one scratch to coach.
Next day at shop they were very appologetic and I told them I was leaving it with them to find problem and take off new ecm they put on as it was not the answer but am convinced it is bad wire going to it behind the fuel filter. We will see what transpires in the next episode.
This shop is big, very well equipped and very busy with lots of PHX govt vehicles so must be good. This issue of mine is one they have not met before I guess and the tech guy doing it owns a AM Eagle coach so he knows pretty much the same things as FT.
I have left the info for FT with the shop but as I have not had any reply from JT there to my posts asking hopefully that he can "chime in" with help( as I am sure they read all this) I doubt they will talk to Rocky Mtn Cummins either on this issue. I guess $25 must be a real big thing with them as I have not paid it yet!! This to me is sad, and frankly my biggest upset that I and others do not matter.
We are safe, clean (finally) and will be washing our underwear today to try and get back to normal.
One thing I have to say that I am ever so grateful for the feedback from FF Friends and others for their genuine help and feelings. A special note to Brad and Dave Metzger, Barry L etc who have gone overboard to keep in touch by phone etc and continue to try and get to the bottom of our issue, this means a lot and we are all very lucky to have them aboard. I am not Religous but I do mean this "Thank God for both of you" You are very careing people even though Dave is sometimes opinionated ( like us all) he means well and has become a close friend. Thank you both and I will let all know what the next bill is for=

on edit-- the Silverleaf has come up with exactly the same info as shop and I am happy to have it.
Take care
JohnH

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #41 – January 30, 2015, 12:49:46 pm

John and Ruth:

Glad you both are safe now in Mexico. Enjoy your visit, drink your favorite beverage ( or 2 ) and let the Cummins experts do their thing. Hopefully the coach will be like new when you get back.

Ted & Karen

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #42 – January 30, 2015, 01:09:06 pm

Wow John, just wow! Of course we are glad you and Ruth are safe, and I think you made a good decision to go down and visit your friends and get away from the coach for a bit. I am sure everyone on the forum can empathize with how that felt, because we all know if it happened to you it could happen to anyone else with an electronic coach, or perhaps even with a mechanical coach (I once had a throttle stick wide open on my Datsun 2 liter roadster... throttle cable hung up).
It seems to me that the best way to diagnose this strange and intermittent issue could be to put the coach on the dyno while the diagnostic computer is hooked up to it. Put it under load and get fully warmed up. When it happens with the computer hooked up and a tech monitoring the procedure, they should be able to narrow it down to a specific component failure, or at least wire bundle leading to the component. Maybe them being able to take some time to think about it since they will have it for a month, will give them the opportunity to have an inspiration and a definitive answer about why this keeps happening. I think you should continue to bug them by phone to make sure they don't forget about it until the day before you are going to show up and take it off their hands.... let them know a forum over three thousand strong with likely a majority powered by Cummins engines is watching to see how they do with this and word will spread!
Anyway, have fun south of the border! I wish I would have had some knowledge I could contributed to help you resolve this before now, but you can bet that I will be paying attention to find out what caused all this... we all will, I am sure!
Don & Tys

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #43 – January 30, 2015, 01:17:19 pm

Thanks all. I did send them an email this morning giving my thoughts and from others on ideas. That is why I thought of leaving it with them for some time to hopefully think it thru right. We actually will be in mexico more than a month but wanted to have them fix before we get close to leaving here. Every day is a learning curve for sure.
Don how did you make out with elec problems at Q??
JohnH

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #44 – January 30, 2015, 02:01:35 pm

Wow, full throttle!! That's incredible. Didn't even think something like that could happen to these engines. Could you not even kill it with the key switch? Put the trans in "N" and let the engine cutout on high RPM?
This is a real eye opener. Any additional details you can provide as to how you got it stopped would be appreciated.

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #45 – January 30, 2015, 08:30:45 pm

I put the Trans in N and the engine went to max sounding like a jet engine then thinking it would blow up I hit D and then suddenely it (throttle) cut back to zero. Ruth said she was so scared and looked at me to see my mind working but looking in control ?? so she just did not speak at left me to do what I had to!
I would not like anyone to go thru those seconds believe me.!!
My Brother Geoff called the shop in PHX today it seems to find out what was happening as I had not contacted him at the time ( travelling thru Mex with no phone or wi fi at the time) and they told him it was going into shop today so hope they email me with info.
One thing I have to say if you are in that general area this is a good place to go for service and work.
Take care and look after your loved ones. Life is too short.
John H
edit. Due to us being in Mexico I do not have cell coverage so if you are trying to get hold of me it will be best with email

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #46 – January 30, 2015, 09:41:28 pm

John, so happy you and Ruth are safe. That is an incredible thing. As others have said, we all hope to learn from this when the real cause is determined.
Dick and Rockey

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #47 – January 31, 2015, 09:14:54 am

John, just pondering what the situation might have been had you already been in Mexico and had this "throttle" episode? (amongst other things)? You may have dodged a bullet in having it all go down whilst still in the good ol' US of A. What would the towing possibilities "down there" have been like? Would anyone (towing outfits) from the US been able or willing to get to you "south of the border"? I think it was a pretty lucky strike, being (what, 50 miles?) north of the border....glad to hear you are both safe & sound & made the effort anyway...agree it was a good idea to go anyway, not to give up.....safe travels.

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #48 – January 31, 2015, 10:35:21 am

Yes I have to agree on the possibility of not been able to get a tow truck with a big enough deck to sit on , but they do have large trucks to lift and tow with front axle (which in the FT book is the recommended way). Funnily enough we did see a large truck on Hy 15 doing just that and I said to Ruth I felt bad for him now knowing what it is like to break down.
They have great mechanics that can fix almost every problem (usually by the roadside) but I do agree it would have taken a lot more time to get a tow etc than it did in US or Canada, even though the cost would have been half of what it did cost.
I will again take a moment to thank all who tried to help sort out problem starting at Q and for Dave K's knowledge for putting the Accel gauge on my Silverleaf screen so I could tell what was happening in those split seconds and what to expect next.
JohnH

Re: Throttle control failure (split from Re: Break down on I-10 )

Reply #49 – January 31, 2015, 10:41:07 am

John,
I sure would like to know more... What parameter is the "Accel gauge" measuring, is it throttle position? I don't remember seeing that on the PID screen in my VMSPC. I must investigate!
Don

Quote from: John Haygarth – January 31, 2015, 10:35:21 am

....Dave K's knowledge for putting the Accel gauge on my Silverleaf screen so I could tell what was happening in those split seconds and what to expect next.
JohnH

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