AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Topic: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted! (Read 4181 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #25 – July 11, 2015, 11:55:42 pm

U270 I have has a longer pipe running horizontal before it gets to the filter housing...any water that comes in it will stay in bottom of pipe and drain out bottom of filter housing. The U320 filter picture is a design flaw. Any water that enters the intake appears that it will flow down the pipe and land directly on the paper filter.

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #26 – July 13, 2015, 02:59:21 am

Luber Finer is FRAM, the same people who sell you the orange cans of death for your car.

stay far away.

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #27 – July 13, 2015, 07:57:44 am

Good to know. The engine tech at Cummins said to stay away from Fram filters. Roger

Re: Busted! Dusted!

Reply #28 – July 13, 2015, 08:49:13 am

I am with Roger. I think the real issue here is the non-supported filter. I am confident that no matter what the intake design of our coach, all of our filters get wet to some extent when driven in heavy rain. I will just be sure to buy only filters with wire mesh on both the inside and outside.

Jon, I stand corrected on the position of the air intake. I didn't know the 95 back panel was redesigned. Did the 94's also have the rear air intake.

Just a suggestion to Roger or the moderators, this information is so critical that I think a Title change to this thread is in order, maybe something like Air Filter Warning!!!

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #29 – July 13, 2015, 09:52:56 am

Just checked my filter and all is good, thanks everyone for the heads up and the ideas.

I remember looking at John's air deflector, and added it to my "someday list", guess I need to find John's thread and the photos again, and like Don, move it up the list.

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #30 – July 13, 2015, 10:02:54 am

Great warning- thanks. I am doing a short move Wednesday, then I will order 2 Fleetguard filters from filter barn. I will install one right away and keep the other for a spare.

The people on this forum are great for sharing ideas, experiences and warnings.

Thanks to all of you.

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #31 – July 13, 2015, 10:49:25 am

Quote from: Ted & Karen – July 13, 2015, 10:02:54 am

I will install one right away and keep the other for a spare.

Just a note and/or question on the subject of "spare filters". I think everyone probably carries a few spare fuel filters (if not, you should). Some probably also carry spare oil, coolant, transmission and air filters. Air filters are probably least common, due to size. I occasionally read cautions about the "shelf life" of filters, saying a filter, if over _____ years old should be discarded. The usual reason given is "possible degradation of filter media". Also, there are cautions about the proper long-term storage of spare filters, and stern recommendations to enclose the filter in a air tight bag, store in a cool place out of direct sunlight, etc.

Donaldson, for instance, states 2 years shelf life: http://www.donaldson.com/en/semiconductor/support/datalibrary/072546.pdf

Anyone have any thoughts on this subject? Is it something we really need to worry about, or just another urban myth?

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #32 – July 13, 2015, 11:00:19 am

Holy Smokes.

Where does the line start for ordering deflector?

I'm not sure I would have the same success arguing that insurance coverage should cover this destruction. Somebody made a impressive argument to get that covered.

David

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #33 – July 14, 2015, 06:17:48 pm

Wow, thanks for the heads up for us newbies. Time to check.

Larry

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #34 – July 14, 2015, 06:23:05 pm

Another thing you might check is the rubber drain tube thing on the bottom of the filter housing that lets water out. I looked at mine and the bottom half has been cut off some how. This provided a hole about 3/4" in diameter to let dust and sand into the bottom of the housing. I opened the end cap and found about a tablespoon of dust and sand near the hole. I have a new one on order.

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #35 – July 15, 2015, 12:21:46 pm

Is that a baldwin filter? Higher end filters have metal grating on the outside AND inside so that the filter can't disintegrate entirely.

EDIT: Ah I see that did come up. Yeah the fleetguard filters have the inner mesh too.

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #36 – July 17, 2015, 07:19:10 pm

Here is an interesting link that ScubaGuy dug up. Another air filter (Baldwin) failure that lead to an engine rebuild. Thanks.

Failure Analysis: Did a Baldwin PA2721 Filter Failure Kill our 8V71 Engine?...

Roger

OBTW. Insurance check came today..

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #37 – July 18, 2015, 04:53:39 pm

Have followed the Technomedia folks since before they broke down in Mt. And the full rebuild process, as they post n a bus board.
Seems Baldwin has QC issues with engineering. Actually I had forgotten about the Baldwin sues.
Anyway I avoid them before & since, Fleetguad or the Wix/NAPA, (Wix makes the NAPA). Price varies greatly.

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #38 – July 19, 2015, 12:11:36 am

I read this article with interest as again it seems water has played a part in the design and build of these things.
Maybe my original thoughts are not so way out after all??
Factory is working night and day trying to fill orders (along with all the other stuff I am doing)

JohnH

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #39 – July 19, 2015, 12:33:17 am

Thanks John for working overtime to fill the deflector void. Mine went on quite nicely, 3/16"x1/2" aluminium pop rivets and a bit of 3M sealant. Looks great.

Roger

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #40 – July 19, 2015, 01:02:39 am

Roger,

Sorry you guys had to go through that experience but all seems to have turned out well. A fresh rebuilt engine covered by State Farm due a weather incident is an excellent outcome indeed! I use State Farm and have had claims covered for vehicles due to hurricanes. They have always been fair with me and were the first insurance company to set up temporary offices for claims here in Gulfport after Katrina which were massive.

It only takes 8 ounces of dirt to ruin a heavy duty engine. http://www.wixfilters.com/Products.aspx?ct=phaf

I changed my air filter in 2013. I didn't know the age of it and my air restriction gauge was missing. The old one was a Baldwin and I replaced it with a Napa Gold 2610 which is made by Wix under advisement from Pierce. I paid more for it from Napa but they had it in stock and I was in a hurry to go on a trip. After reading about your experience and reading the other posts here on this subject I'm glad I did.

Here some pics of where my air intake is located and the drain plug underneath. It's up high enough like Kent's but water could get in and collect along the air duct which runs back down and parallel to the ground before connecting up to the round container for the filter. The rubber plug is easy to get to and removes easily for inspection. I think I'm okay but I will inspect it regularly.

Thanks,
Jerry

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #41 – July 20, 2015, 12:13:17 pm

Jerry,

Excellent air intake location. Wish we had ours there. Yours must be a later build. Ours was late 1992 so while a 1993 model, didn't have the good intake like yours.

Here is a photo of what an air cleaner should look like with mesh on both the inside as well as the outside. Always check the rubber end gasket and make sure the air cleaner element seats properly when putting the cover back on. Should take a little pressure so you know it is sealing on the other end.

Pierce

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #42 – July 21, 2015, 12:00:22 am

And just an update on all of the orders that you sent to me I mailed them today and should arrive in 2 days.
Have fun. Those that use Pay pal that is good for me too (and thanks to those that already paid)
JohnH

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #43 – July 21, 2015, 12:05:59 pm

Some great information here that hopefully will save others from this miserable experience. Based on my experience, I'd like to add:

Check your intake air system from turbo to filter. Mine had a sneaky little hole abraded into the metal line from something (undetermined) rubbing on it. Any leaks here allow unfiltered air to be sucked in as this is a suction line. One way to test is to do a visual inspection, and while engine is running lightly spray starting fluid around joints in lines. Any increase in engine speed indicates a leak. Naturally you want to do this check right after the engine is started before heating up. Use your own judgment, no doubt there's an element of danger.

Pull the intake off the turbo and check the vanes for abrasions=unfiltered air leak. Find it. BTW, a small amount of play (actually more than you would think) is normal in turbo bearings, allows for expansion when hot.

I also found a leak on the output side of turbo between it and CAC. This was another hole, rubbed into it by the rubber cover support bracket. This is pressure side so no danger of sucking unfiltered air but it does compromise performance.

I went back to Donaldson brand filters and spent some time researching same. Have now gone to the Donaldson synthetic media filter rather than cellulose which is the standard filter. This takes filtration efficiency to 99.9% rather than the 99% of the cellulose media. Also provides moisture resistance. Filterbarn doesn't have em, but found at Filter Products Corporation, a DBA5024 Donaldson Blue filter. About 58.00. Donaldson's page AIR FILTER, PRIMARY DONALDSON BLUE|Engine & Hydraulic|AIR FILTERS|Dynamic... Note this is an on/off road rated extended life filter.

One other point concerning aftermarket filters. I've seen several of them come out of coaches that looked partially crushed, with the metal webbing wrinkled and media compressed. There seems to be some size variation (length) in some of these multiple fit style filters. This crushing is worrisome, it would be easy for this to compromise the media.

Sounds like John's deflector should be OEM equipment. I'll be adding one also.

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #44 – July 25, 2015, 09:59:27 pm

Just installed a fleetgard , nice quality and it came with a housing gasket also

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #45 – July 26, 2015, 02:41:13 pm

John:
Excellent. Do you have a picture of the deflector and how do I get one?
I just happen to be at FoT right now to fix this air intake sucking in rain water problem. It's stranded me twice.
Doug
dougs9472@gmail.com

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #46 – July 28, 2015, 01:38:23 pm

Took John H. advice and added the deflector today. Hated to drill holes in the fiberglass cap though! Had a piece of 1/8" x 3.5" aluminum diamond plate kicking around so I use that just had to cut to length 28". Attached with 3/16 x 1/2 " stainless steel screws and sealant.

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #47 – July 28, 2015, 05:29:22 pm

Thanks to this thread I replaced our air filter yesterday. It's been there for only 5 years and 25k miles, but it was *filthy*. At least the paper element held up, but if it weren't for the previous owners' notes on the cover (thanks Doug!), I'd have guess it was twice that old.

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #48 – July 28, 2015, 09:58:56 pm

Dougself sent me a picture of a "scoop" that he saw on a few Nimbus coach's at FT , so they abviously knew that there where major problems with water intrusion. Problem is (my opinion) the ones shown in picture would be a major mistake as they would "pull" water etc into this "scoop" not deflect it away??
I feel it should have been placed on the leading side ie opposite, and to stop any back draft another very small edition of mine put were this one is shown.
FT it seems are changing the piping inside to "trap" water before travelling down to filter and utilising the rubber drains in a few places to drain whatever gets thru.

Any opinions?
johnH

Re: AIr Filter Failure Warning! Don't get Dusted!

Reply #49 – July 28, 2015, 10:07:21 pm

Agree, John,

That would scoop water INTO the intake like crazy. That is, assuming this is the intake for the air filter/engine intake.

Affiliate Notice