New Realm Review

Topic: New Realm Review (Read 2569 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #25 – October 02, 2015, 11:25:06 pm

Quote from: esaulten – October 02, 2015, 02:42:18 pm

When I questioned that exact price difference I was told that the unit cost of the Foretravel chassis is almost twice the cost of the Sparten. Remember Sparten buys hundreds of engines, transmissions etc. Foretravel a dozen a year.

That is such a cop-out excuse. FT has the design and all the knowledge. They could outsource the fabrication of the frames. Manufacturing has gotten much more efficient over the last 15 years, but FT seems to not have taken advantage of that. The R&D is the expensive part, and that's already done!

The disadvantage of the spartan way is that the chassis/engine are not as accessible as a semi monocoque setup.

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #26 – October 02, 2015, 11:35:58 pm

The original unihome cost less to build than the ORED.

Minus the $1m R&D.

Perceived value. Spartan was amazingly well made.

Albeit with small,compartments that resulted from the massive girder boxed frame structure.

Had to be more diagonals and uprights to hold the weight and motor torque.

Figuring most body's mounted on the K3 have loose hung non structuctural sidewalls with aluminum framing they overbuilt the frame.

Seen a few new coaches on less chassis break windshields regularly and one had massive reinforcing steel welded to it by a local shop.

Wimpy.

Spartan k3 probably OK judging by its looks and backed up by foretravels use of it.

I am not interested in a 45' myself. But for the park model buyers it's a good piece.

I have a medium nice house. Don't need my Rv to look like a Vegas suite. P

But I understand those who do want and can afford it. Kool

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #27 – October 03, 2015, 12:51:06 am

I believe the extra cost is the cost of components. Foretravel buys 12 engines, 12 transmissions etc. and usually not at once. Same thing with the cooling package. They buy tires from a distributor not the manufacturer like Sparten. I don't think its a cop out as to actual costs. What I do believe is they should price the motorhomes at a realistic list price and sell more. As others have said and I agree they should buy a Sparten or Freightliner chassis and since they have made the break with their own chassis with the Realm, start building the U320 series with retarder then add their beautiful paint and interiors. List priced in the low $500,000 they would be back to the early 2000's. They then would have volume and use the IH as their flagship. New owners both being younger than this generation and perhaps more willing to spend their disposable income could also be the basis of potential up graders. When I was much younger I started with a 270 and over the years as I became comfortable with Rv'g I ultimately upgraded to my current Phenix.

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #28 – October 03, 2015, 02:54:30 pm

I agree. Need a lower price "entry level" model to grab the newer buyers that will later upgrade.

Also, FT should start making high quality 5th wheels. Then they can't complain about price of driveline components. I'd gladly buy a FT 5th wheel.

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #29 – October 03, 2015, 05:01:31 pm

Quote from: krush – October 03, 2015, 02:54:30 pm

I agree. Need a lower price "entry level" model to grab the newer buyers that will later upgrade.

Also, FT should start making high quality 5th wheels. Then they can't complain about price of driveline components. I'd gladly buy a FT 5th wheel.

I would say that with the number of motorhomes today at the "entry level" any movement by Foretravel would be futile to enter this field. Since the economy today makes buyers look for the least expense rig to buy, quality does not factor into many buyers decisions today. Lets face it, to an inexperienced buyer, all motorhomes new look great in appearance. The price ticket is what sells the motorhome. What profit margin could Foretravel really make selling rig at the entry level while competing with all the other manufactures who are well established in this entry field?

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #30 – October 03, 2015, 05:13:34 pm

Quote from: bobnkathy – October 03, 2015, 05:01:31 pm

I would say that with the number of motorhomes today at the "entry level" any movement by Foretravel would be futile to enter this field.

I completely agree. Foretravel needs to continue focusing on producing the highest-quality motorhomes and that includes building their own integral-chassis construction. They just need to invest in automated technology to lower the cost per unit to increase sales and be able to buy compenents at a more competitive price.

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #31 – October 03, 2015, 05:33:56 pm

Quote from: D.J. Osborn – October 03, 2015, 05:13:34 pm

I completely agree. Foretravel needs to continue focusing on producing the highest-quality motorhomes and that includes building their own integral-chassis construction. They just need to invest in automated technology to lower the cost per unit to increase sales and be able to buy compenents at a more competitive price.

If Foretravel gets involved in 5th Wheels, automated technology, etc., they'll become a either a bottom feeder, OR, perish the thought, go belly up. Look what happened to Alpinelite, Airstream & many others that tried the cheap route. Were I an owner, I'd stick with the gal that brought me to the dance,

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #32 – October 03, 2015, 06:00:55 pm

Quote from: D.J. Osborn – October 03, 2015, 05:13:34 pm

I completely agree. Foretravel needs to continue focusing on producing the highest-quality motorhomes and that includes building their own integral-chassis construction. They just need to invest in automated technology to lower the cost per unit to increase sales and be able to buy compenents at a more competitive price.

In addition to increasing sales volumes in order to get volume pricing on major chassis components, you would thing there would be another way.

Why don't lower volume manufacturers join in a co-op to use joint volumes in their purchasing power?

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #33 – October 03, 2015, 06:50:54 pm

Quote from: mike leary – October 03, 2015, 05:33:56 pm

If Foretravel gets involved in 5th Wheels, automated technology, etc., they'll become a either a bottom feeder, OR, perish the thought, go belly up. Look what happened to Alpinelite, Airstream & many others that tried the cheap route. Were I an owner, I'd stick with the gal that brought me to the dance,

high quality 5th wheels. Some people want the great interior and cabinetry of a FT, but don't need the motorhome aspect.

Where did I say bottom feeder? I said lower cost...like what they made in the late 1990's and early 2000's.

The fact is this. Brand loyalty and marketing are very important for sales. The fleet of FT's on the road is growing smaller and smaller due to natural attrition. There are no FT dealers anymore. When the averge guy that is willing to spend some decent money (300-500k) and buy QUALITY starts looking around, I can almost guarantee a FT will not be included on the list of contenders. He probably doesn't even know the brand exists.

Hatteras Yachts suffered the same "margin is better on big stuff" idea. You know who offers smaller boats to catch the younger buyer? SeaRay. And then as the person decides to upgrade over the years, SeaRay is there to offer larger and more expensive units. And because SeaRay has dealers and service, then owner feels loyal to the brand.

No where did I say cheap. I said lower cost. Find a FT under 500k new...ain't happening.

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #34 – October 03, 2015, 07:01:10 pm

Quote from: mike leary – October 03, 2015, 05:33:56 pm

If Foretravel gets involved in 5th Wheels, automated technology, etc., they'll become a either a bottom feeder, OR, perish the thought, go belly up. Look what happened to Alpinelite, Airstream & many others that tried the cheap route. Were I an owner, I'd stick with the gal that brought me to the dance,

"Automated technology" doesn't need to mean "cheap." It's just a way to increase efficiency. Manufacturers who refuse to take advantage of modern technology and the increased efficiency it brings are the ones who find themselves going "belly up."

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #35 – October 03, 2015, 07:05:06 pm

Quote from: krush – October 03, 2015, 06:50:54 pm

Where did I say bottom feeder? I said lower cost...like "what they made in the late 1990's and early 2000's."

Making "what they made in the late 1990's and early 2000's" very nearly sent the company to the graveyard.

Foretravel needs to re-focus on making coaches with outstanding quality, but needs to find ways of maintaining that quality and yet producing them at a lower cost and then offering them for sale at more realistic prices.

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #36 – October 03, 2015, 07:31:09 pm

Here's your option: we've been staying at a park across the street in Mesa, Arizona & it's amazing how busy they are! You want it cheaper? Biig Box seems to be all over. I hate to say how many owners of new coaches we've met that are sorry they went with the "bottom feeders".

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #37 – October 03, 2015, 07:49:23 pm

This up and down cycles are routine in the Rv biz. New guys build pretty floor plans and fabrics. Sign up dealers to buy the trades.

Short the quality control. Deny dealer warranty claims so they invent things to bill the factory.

Big dealer cheats the banks and run off into the sunset with ill gotten gains.

Newby buyers make happy noises when looking at the household refer and tv's.

Coach construction? Resale value? "There all the same." Heard that countless times.

At the risk of jinxing myself I rarely carry much tools when traveling. Really reliable IF you are proactive not reactive on the entire coach

Long term financing. Customer has massive negative equity. Cannot trade out.

Or the inflated oem list price is used to not embarrass the trade in owners.

I,have had numerous buyers tell me to raise the trade price and my price so they can show the DW they did not loose money buying the trade in.

At least the trades have a book value unlike boats.

Old stories done over constantly.

Then there are us old die hard foretravelers. Last of the old breed. Built to last was done literally

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #38 – October 03, 2015, 08:07:22 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – October 03, 2015, 07:49:23 pm

At the risk of jinxing myself I rarely carry much tools when traveling. Really reliable IF you are proactive not reactive on the entire coach Then there are us old die hard foretravelers. Last of the old breed. Built to last was done literally

I have a friend who has a 40 foot OB. He has enough tools to make a pro mechanic envious. I call him "Ace" because he literally has a hardware store on board. Besides Foretravel, older Airstreams, Barths, etc., seem to attract us nut cases; I love it!

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #39 – October 03, 2015, 08:08:40 pm

Quote from: mike leary – October 03, 2015, 08:07:22 pm

I have a friend who has a ? 40 footer, he has enough tools to make a pro mechanic envious. I call him "Ace" because he literally has a hardware store on board. The older Airstreams, Barths, etc., seem to attract us nut cases; I love it!

My Barth factory rep called them "barfs"

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #40 – October 03, 2015, 08:14:40 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – October 03, 2015, 08:08:40 pm

My Barth factory rep called them "barfs"

They were not the best looking high line coaches ever made, but I helped a guy one time troubleshoot a wiring problem. Looked under the front compartment and said, "WOW, This coach is wired to mil-specs."

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #41 – October 03, 2015, 08:16:24 pm

Quote from: mike leary – October 03, 2015, 08:14:40 pm

They were not the best looking high line coaches ever made, but I helped a guy one time troubleshoot a wiring problem. Looked under the front compartment and said, "WOW, This coach is wired to mil-specs."

Tiny plastic water lines. No flow.

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #42 – October 03, 2015, 08:56:20 pm

Speaking of fifth wheels, anybody know what happened to the Foretravel that was turned into one?

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #43 – October 03, 2015, 09:37:00 pm

Quote from: rbark – October 03, 2015, 08:56:20 pm

Speaking of fifth wheels, anybody know what happened to the Foretravel that was turned into one?

I saw it last week. It's for sale. PM me if you want info.

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #44 – October 03, 2015, 09:58:38 pm

On lot last month

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #45 – October 04, 2015, 09:05:51 am

The way I see it, the SOB class "A" coach buyers are at the entry level for motorhomes. After awhile those owners start learning about quality, durability, reliability, plan"ability", and all the other -abilities and then they go looking for a Foretravel.
Unfortunately a lot of new buyers do not do their homework. A lot of these same buyers never heard of Foretravel. Even the salesman at the Tiffen dealer here in Wisconsin never heard of Foretravel!
Many of these SOB owners are even willing to go back a few years in order to get the quality of a Foretravel coach.
Not everyone is willing (or able) to move directly into a new Foretravel coach. Unfamiliarity with the lifestyle, necessary mechanical knowledge, foreseeable usage, finances, and availability all play parts in the decision making process.

We bought our 1989 GV based on the quality, condition, floor plan, a list of requirements we desired, and finances. All the aforementioned conditions were met and we are totally happy with our decision. We do tour RV dealers used coaches whenever we have time and come away very, very, happy with our '89 GV. It has aged a whole lot better than almost all the SOBs we were in, the layout and amenities are still all we want or need.

When we were "shopping" for an RV we were looking for a camper. WOW, LOOK AT WHAT WE GOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Realm

Reply #46 – October 06, 2015, 08:51:34 am

A look on the mother ship home page and what do I see ? A sold Realm and another one pending ---This is a good thing to see . Don't remember seeing much sale activity involving any Realm's , so there has to be smiles in NAC . Brad Metzger

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #47 – October 06, 2015, 10:33:35 pm

I was thinking that if FT wants something to slot in below the Realm, they'd consider building a Super-C.

They're safer in crashes than the typical Class A, as they're starting with a chassis built to DOT and NHTSA specs. And can be equipped with stability control and lane departure warning systems. Downside is they look like the trucks they are.

To control costs, FT would have to restrict buyer choice. Have a base price on a reasonably well-equipped coach and then offer packages: 4-season, home office, pet owner, and tailgater. The contents of which are fixed and a known price, but can be combined. Put a "Build + Price" configurator on their website for them like the automakers do.

Chip H.

Re: New Realm Review

Reply #48 – October 07, 2015, 07:16:23 am

The issue is that they still are not a volume and never have been a volume manufacturer. The chassis purchase helps reduce some of the costs. It probably does not matter C vs A. I was impressed when I saw the realm and figured the market might tell them that they need to change direction a bit.

Re: The Realm

Reply #49 – October 07, 2015, 11:49:03 am

So , there is some interest stirring about . Good good . Front page on FMCA monthly . Write up in the Good Sam monthly . And now we are seeing some results . Yes , it was slow to catch on , but seems like that might have happened . Brad Metzger

Affiliate Notice