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Topic: Entry step/step cover solenoid/norgren valve (Read 1665 times) previous topic - next topic

Entry step/step cover solenoid/norgren valve

Does anybody happen to have a part number on this particular valve. It's got a bad leak in it which makes the aux compressor run every 15 minutes or so. I looked it all over the best I could without completely removing it. I've  since closed the regulator so no air will go to the valve since I'm gonna be parked for a little. I (hopefully) attached some pictures of it.
2000 Foretravel U320 4210 CAI (Formerly Gary Omel's coach)
Build #6189
previous: 2003 Foretravel U320 4020 AGDS

2015 Suburban
2007 Wrangler


Re: Entry step/step cover solenoid/norgren valve

Reply #2
Outside step & step slide's air cylinders are controlled by 4-way pneumatic solenoids, and you may find the leak easily fixed by removing valve and cleaning it.  It may include taking valve apart. 

Capping air line is the best way to stop leaks.

Step slide cylinder is known to eventually leak and it is mounting location under the floor makes replacement a big job.  Air pressure is used to open AND close step slide cover, but not necessary to keep it in positon.  Some have added a switchable 3-way valve on the air line to extend the life of the cylinder, only turning it on to change position.

Re: Entry step/step cover solenoid/norgren valve

Reply #3
I just had a bad leak in my Norgren valve--not the pressure regulator.  There are hex head screws on each end.  I was able to tighten them on the leaking end enough to get me home where I can do a more though job of trouble shooting.

Rich
Rich and Peggy Bowman
2002 U270 3610 WTFS, build #5939--"Freedom"
2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit 4xe
SMI AirForceOne brake system
PakCanoe 15

Re: Entry step/step cover solenoid/norgren valve

Reply #4
Thanks everybody,
David, I don't think that's it unless it's an updated version. Also, I don't believe that it is a "Norgren" valve. I was just using that for reference. I turned it all over best I could and the only thing I could read( if I remember correctly) is ACG on one of the sides. The regulator isn't what's leaking. That seems to be working fine. It's in between the solenoids and the manifold. There's a rubber gasket and I think it's worn out. That's where the bubbles come from. I'll try to slide under there and look at it again and maybe get some better pictures.
2000 Foretravel U320 4210 CAI (Formerly Gary Omel's coach)
Build #6189
previous: 2003 Foretravel U320 4020 AGDS

2015 Suburban
2007 Wrangler

Re: Entry step/step cover solenoid/norgren valve

Reply #5
Well, I had a look at it and found a part number from the top side it's an SMC brand. I'll attach a picture of the part number. Maybe somebody will know where to get ahold of one or a replacement. I looked on smc's website and I found the part number but it says the part is obsolete. The picture they have doesn't look like what I've got either.
2000 Foretravel U320 4210 CAI (Formerly Gary Omel's coach)
Build #6189
previous: 2003 Foretravel U320 4020 AGDS

2015 Suburban
2007 Wrangler

Re: Entry step/step cover solenoid/norgren valve

Reply #6
I have joined the club of malfunctioning stair well covers.  My 2004 has the same valve as pictured by DJ and Jane.  It apparently controls both the stair well cover and the external step.  The external step is working fine and there does not seem to be any air leaks.  Note that one side has a single electrical connection and the other has two. 

Any ideas on which connection(s) control the stair well cover?  And how to disconnect the electrical connections to test if there is voltage when a switch is engaged?    (I guess I can cut the wires to gain access for a test and then splice them back but that seems rather crude.)

There is a small screw head on each connection and what looks like a fitting that can be turned where the wires attach but I don't want to risk breaking anything without some knowledge.  I can't trace the wires since they all directly connect into a plastic loom.

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Larry Rubin
2004 U295 38' build 6278
2014 Jeep Cherokee

Re: Entry step/step cover solenoid/norgren valve

Reply #7
Larry,

In your photo, it looks like the translucent 90-degree cover over the connections is held on by the screw.  You can actually see the green wire inside the cover.  I would guess you would remove the screw, then hopefully the cover will slide up the wires far enough to allow you to reach the connections with your multimeter probes?  Worth a try, anyway.

Looking at the photos posted by DJ & Jane, and by you...  It almost looks to me like there are 2 separate solenoid switches mounted side by side.  In one of DJ's photos, you can see two different labels with different model numbers and diagrams.  If that is correct, then one switch would have 2 electrical connections (one at each end) - the other would have one electric connection.

My air step (which I am working on at this time) has a solenoid switch with just one electric connection.  The electric coil moves the air valve one direction - a internal spring moves it the other direction.  IF your step works the same, it might be controlled by the solenoid switch with a single electric connection.

Which means the "dual connection" solenoid switch would operate the stair well cover.  IF my suppositions above are correct.

Anyway, if you are able to check for power at all three electric connections, and power is good, then the next logical step will be to remove the valves (or valve).  As noted above, they can be disassembled, cleaned, lubed, and reassembled.  This will often restore function.

Good luck with your project!
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Entry step/step cover solenoid/norgren valve

Reply #8
Quote
Anyway, if you are able to check for power at all three electric connections, and power is good, then the next logical step will be to remove the valves (or valve).  As noted above, they can be disassembled, cleaned, lubed, and reassembled.  This will often restore function.

Good luck with your project!

Thanks, that goes along with my thinking.  I had some air leaks on the six pack and the front ride height valve fixed and maybe some dirt worked its way to the stair well cover valve.  I can live a while without it closing (it's stuck in open position) until I get back east. 
Larry Rubin
2004 U295 38' build 6278
2014 Jeep Cherokee

Re: Entry step/step cover solenoid/norgren valve

Reply #9
  I can live a while without it closing (it's stuck in open position) until I get back east. 

Mite buy an el cheapo clip-on mirror to keep an eye out whilst pulling into fuel, etc. How do I know that? Don't ask.  :-X
1993 U-240 "La Villa Grande"..CAT 3116 w/ Pacbrake PRXB...Allison 3060 6-speed..
Previous: 1983 Airstream 310 turbo diesel, 1979 Airstream 280 turbo diesel
                                      Build # 4297
                                      PNW natives
                      Home base:  'Cactus Hug' (Ajo, Arizona)
                        DW Judy & Chet the wonder dog
                        Full-Timers 'Sailing the asphalt sea'

Re: Entry step/step cover solenoid/norgren valve

Reply #10
Mite buy an el cheapo clip-on mirror to keep an eye out whilst pulling into fuel, etc.
It's Larry's stairwell cover that is acting up, not his outside air step.  We don't have a stairwell cover on our GVs, thank goodness (one less thing to go wonky).  8)
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Entry step/step cover solenoid/norgren valve

Reply #11
Larry, you may want to follow what other have done for a leaking step cover slide.  We left original solenoid alone, added a 3-way (some have used 2-way) 12-volt solenoid to shut off input air.  Run wires up into coach for power and inside switch.  Turn on new inside switch when wanting to open or close step slide and keep switch off other times, and your leaking step slide is not a problem anymore.  And if the cylinder does not yet leak, this mod will greatly extend the life of the cylinder, because cylinder is normally always under air pressure, open, closed, parked or driving (except when the air tanks drain down).  The real  problem is that this single air cylinder is mounted in a problematic position.

Re: Entry step/step cover solenoid/norgren valve

Reply #12
I purchased and changed these SOVs a couple of years ago. The SMC is available. The connector on the end with the screw is just a plug. The screw holds it in place. Remove the screw and unplug.
Previous coach - 2007 Phenix 45'

Re: Entry step/step cover solenoid/norgren valve

Reply #13
Quote
We left original solenoid alone, added a 3-way (some have used 2-way) 12-volt solenoid to shut off input air.
Quote
I purchased and changed these SOVs a couple of years ago. The SMC is available. The connector on the end with the screw is just a plug. The screw holds it in place. Remove the screw and unplug.
Thanks for the ideas and help. 

Barry - As mentioned, on mine there is a single air supply to both step well cover and slide out step.  Two air lines come out of the solenoid for each application.  If I put the new solenoid on the input air, I would need to open it when I want to use either cover or step.  This is OK, but not really necessary because the cylinders for the step are easy to get to. 

If I wanted to put the new solenoid on the cover only, would I have to get two to hook up to both lines? 
How would a 3 way solenoid be hooked up?

Is this the type of 2 way solenoid to use?  Redhat Solenoid Valve, 2/2, 1/2 In, NC, 12V, Brass 8210G002 | Zoro.com
Larry Rubin
2004 U295 38' build 6278
2014 Jeep Cherokee

Re: Entry step/step cover solenoid/norgren valve

Reply #14

The Redhat valve is a simple direct acting valve that will pull a lot of power (around 1 amp) and will not work for a double acting air cylinder or even a single acting cylinder.
The OEM valves (SMC/Norgeren) are called "piloted" in that a very tiny solenoid allows a tiny amount of air to push on a diaphragm that opens the main valve.  These require only about .12 amps or less but need a minimum amount of pressure to activate the main valve (around 30 psi). 
FT used a manifolded two valve set up for both the step and the stepwell cover.  It saved them an extra connection for the input air and mounting for only one device (vs. two).  It also allows for easier replacement if a valve goes bad.  The idea is you just disconnect the electrical plug (unscrew the screw) and pull the connection "cube" off.  Then there should be two (long and very small) screws (usually on a diagonal) that you remove and the valve should lift off the manifold.  Usually manifolds are for a setup with many valves, not just two: SMC Corporation - SS5Y3-41P-12-N7T - flat ribbon conn 12 station base mt bar...  The trick though is finding the right replacement now that the original valve is obsolete.  I'm guessing there is a current valve that will work but figuring their catalog is difficult to say the least.  There are hundreds of variations in their catalog for this family of valves.  SMC makes good stuff but it is hard to figure out the right P/N. http://www.smcpneumatics.com/pdfs/VQZ_5PT.pdf
When you look at the P/N you need to distinguish between the manifold block and the valve itself too.  It looks like the valve numbers are VQZ2151-6Y and VQZ2351-6Y from your photos.

Another option is to replace the entire valve manifold with two separate new valves:

For the step a single solenoid is all that is required: Amico 5 Way 2 Position DC 12V 3W 120mA Solenoid Valve 4V210-08: Industrial...
and connects like this : http://i0.wp.com/cdn.makezine.com/uploads/2014/10/tct-figc.jpg

Seeing the double solenoid tells me the user's switch control is probably a 3 position switch that is spring loaded to the middle position?
I think this valve would be a good replacement: DC 12V 4V230C-08 3 Position 5 Way Pneumatic Solenoid Valve: Industrial...  (I think) The double solenoid cuts air automatically (with the release of the switch) to the air cylinder so no leaking at the cylinder should result with this setup - an improvement over older systems with a single solenoid.

Of course this will require new wiring connections to be made and probably some air fitting connections changed out too, as well as mounting each of the new valves.  I would probably take this route if it were me since ordering the exact right SMC valve might be hard to do as well as expensive.  SMC stuff is generally sold to industrial customers.  24 vdc is the common industrial voltage too - not 12 vdc.

The exhaust ports on the valves usually will have valves to control the speed of the cylinders motion.  I can't tell if you can reuse these from the current setup or not.  You can control the speed in each direction with each exhaust valve.  These valves will have a muffler too sometimes - as I think I can see in your picture.
The pressure governs the force of the cylinder - which you want to keep it as light as possible in case a finger or toe gets caught.

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John Fitzgerald
1991 U300 (SAI) Side Aisle Island Bed 40'
Detroit 6V92 with Allison Retarder
Meridian (Boise), Idaho

Re: Entry step/step cover solenoid/norgren valve

Reply #15
Larry,  Thanks for the clarification on how later models combined the two solenoids.  I am not sure about the best way to add a shut-off just for your step slide, but of course adding separate solenoids on both ends of cylinder should work.

Think of naming 3-way pneumatic solenoid ports as A-B-C.  With power off A is connected to B and C is closed.  With 12-volts applied A would be connected to C and B closed. 

Connecting air pressure into the 3-way to C and air pressure out of the 3-way to A.  B is vented to atmosphere. 

When 12-volts is removed, source air pressure is shut off and captive cylinder air pressure is vented out, keeping the cylinder seals relaxed, prolonging cylinder life.

With a 2-way solenoid a cylinder that does not leak will stay under pressure holding the cylinder in retracted or extended positions.

Our coach OEM solenoid is a 4-way, air in, vent, air line to extend end of cylinder and air line to retract  end of cylinder.  When one end of cylinder is under air pressure the other end is open to atmosphere.  The Foretravel solenoid just swaps which end is under pressure and which end is open.

Re: Entry step/step cover solenoid/norgren valve

Reply #16
@JohnFitz

John,

Terrific post!  You obviously have some extensive knowledge of these mysterious valves!  You are now my "GO TO" source if I have any questions about them in the future.  Thanks for sharing what you have learned with the Forum...passing on hard-earned knowledge to others is one of the most important functions of this association!
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Entry step/step cover solenoid/norgren valve

Reply #17

I replaced the failing Norgren step cover valve last year with a new one from Norgren.  (Norgren Webstore - USA )

Part:  Norgren V61R517AA312JB

Total including shipping was about $95.

This just restores the step cover control to its previous functionality.  Haven't put in the air disconnect to reduce air leak from the step cover cylinder, but it's on the list.
Dave and Nancy
1999/2013 U270 36' Xtreme
Motorcade # 16774
2013 Subaru Outback
KD0NIM