1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Topic: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost (Read 3232 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #50 – October 05, 2016, 08:34:59 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – October 05, 2016, 08:09:41 pm

Turns out the connectors were from the ATEC trans to the DDEC engine.

Bob, I think that is the same thing that happened to me. I posted about in reply 14 of this thread.
My transmission wouldn't kick down when stepping on the pedal. Felt like major loss of power.

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #51 – October 20, 2016, 08:39:28 am

Sorry for the delay in resolving this thread. We have not had reliable internet service for some time.

Thanks to everyone for their ideas to fix my coach. After trying to fix things the simple way I finally limped into Central Power Systems in Maryland Heights (St. Louis), MO. They are the two stroke Dealer/Distributor for Detroit Diesel for the area. I don't think I have ever had better service anywhere. The next day they brought in their 6V92 specialist Randy from the Springfield, MO branch to work on my engine. He was fully equipped with the laptop software for the DDEC electronic engine control. Within 10 minutes he determined that two injectors were faulty, one not operating at all and the other sporadically at 30% average. When he pulled the valve covers he found a number of other problems that related back to the head work I had done in NAC in April. The worst of the problems were broken snap rings and valve keepers. After further examination the shop determined that some wrong parts were installed. After reassembly with the right parts the coach is running very well. I called Bernd in NAC and told him what had happened. He told me that those parts were what was sent to him by his supplier and he readily agreed to cover my cost for the repairs. I will take the wrong parts to him when I go back to NAC next month. Bernd has worked on my coach since he was in Lufken, TX and his response to stand behind his work is exactly what I expected of him.

The bottom line is that 6V92's don't run very well on four cylinders. That new injectors cost about $900 each. And for great diesel engine and generator service around St. Louis contact Will at Central Power Systems. They also have branches in Springfield, MO, Kansas City, Wichita and Western Oklahoma.

Man is it nice to go up hills with full power again.

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #52 – October 20, 2016, 09:42:39 am

Great outcome!!!

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #53 – October 20, 2016, 01:22:01 pm

What was the part number on the injectors?

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #54 – October 20, 2016, 01:58:04 pm

Quote from: stump – October 20, 2016, 01:22:01 pm

What was the part number on the injectors?

Quote from: Kent Speers – October 20, 2016, 08:39:28 am

That new injectors cost about $900 each. WRONG!!!

Stump, thanks for asking about the injectors. In looking up the part number, R5234985 I found that the actual price charged for the injector was $534.40, core charge was $250 each but because they were the Detroit Distributor they kept the old injectors and I was not charged for the cores. The $900 I quoted earlier was what the shop had originally quoted me over the phone, including the core. In the end I believe they charged me their fleet prices to help me out. Like I said, they were great to deal with.

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #55 – October 20, 2016, 02:29:48 pm

One additional note, the shop that tried to help me in Central Missouri was Pierson and Sons Trucks in New Florence, MO. Phone 573-835-3381. Alan Pierson is a very experienced Detroit Two Stoke Mechanic. The toy outside of his office door is a 12V Detroit Two Stroke. Wow was that thing loud.

The only reason they couldn't find the problems was that they didn't have the sophisticated electronic equipment and they didn't have time to tear into the engine. They did however spend six hours going over the simple possible causes and the external possibilities like the turbo-pressure sensor. FWIW

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #56 – October 20, 2016, 07:03:40 pm

Kent,

Glad to hear all is well and Bernd reimbursed you for the problems his repairs caused and stood behind his work. What was going on back in April that caused you to have to bring it into his shop? Did he do a diagnostic test on the cylinders/injectors to determine that the head needed to be redone or the injectors were going bad? I'm amazed it ran at all with a couple of bad injectors for that long.

Thanks,
Jerry

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #57 – October 20, 2016, 09:55:24 pm

"Glad to hear all is well and Bernd reimbursed you for the problems his repairs caused and stood behind his work. What was going on back in April that caused you to have to bring it into his shop? Did he do a diagnostic test on the cylinders/injectors to determine that the head needed to be redone or the injectors were going bad? I'm amazed it ran at all with a couple of bad injectors for that long."

YES, could you explain, please !!

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #58 – October 21, 2016, 10:19:17 am

Kent- glad to hear you are back in full power operation now. Nothing more frustrating than having problems and not being able to get them fixed. I am glad Bernd stood behind his work and is making things right for you. Hope you and Peggy enjoy your travels.

Cya down the road

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #59 – October 21, 2016, 10:01:56 pm

Kent, I am happy to see your problem has been resolved and that Bernd will be taking care of the repair costs. I have never dealt with him but if ever in his neighborhood I will not hesitate to call him.
Tony

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #60 – October 22, 2016, 01:08:09 am

Hi Kent!
Was it the DDEC software that solved your problem? And the previous shops did not have it? I ask because a shop I know of told me he hadn't seen a DDEC in the last five years. He looked around and found a Nexiq Pro Link with the DDEC Cartridge. I should have it tomorrow. I'm just curious if you think the first shop you visited had that tool if they would have found your injector problem right away.
My son-in-law just bought a BB Wanderlodge with an 8v92. and I am thinking this setup will allow him to read diagnostic codes, reset them and do injector tests, etc.
Hi to Peggy
Dick

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #61 – October 22, 2016, 07:14:20 am

Yes it will Dick. he will be able to kill each cylinder. clear codes, read codes, see injector response times,etc

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #62 – October 22, 2016, 12:37:00 pm

Dick,
You can also use to it to monitor road speed, mpg, coolant temp, boost psi, trip data, and many other parameters. It also has a trigger function you can program to try and determine what is causing an event. It will store data and you can print it out if you have one. I leave mine plugged in all the time and also use it to set the idle to 1000 rpms when needed. With the ATEC cartridge you can monitor the trans. It's been an excellent tool to have for continuous monitoring of the DDEC and well worth what I paid for it. Every time you use it you're saving shop fees!

Jerry

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #63 – October 23, 2016, 06:51:53 pm

Well, we got the Pro Link, it does say 9000 on the back. It wasn't exactly what I expected in that it is totally self contained with a small screen that you move around using Function and arrow keys. I had thought it would connect to a laptop. At any rate it works fine.
Stump & Jerry, you obviously know a lot more about this tool than we were able to figure out during our first use. It came with zero instructions.
Does anyone have a copy of the User's Manual to share?
I think well worth the $100 I paid for it including shipping.
Thanks Dick

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #64 – October 23, 2016, 08:08:06 pm

Dick. get hold pf Pierce Stewart as I am sure that is the one he has had for a few years.
JohnH

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #65 – October 23, 2016, 10:21:57 pm

Dick,

What version of DDEC is shown on the cartridge? What year Wanderlodge is it?

Do you have the correct interface plug for the DDDL (Detroit Diesel Data Link) under the dash and cable to go with it? My interface plug is a 12 pin. When you plug it in and turn on the ignition it should power up and tell you what version DDEC software you have.

I have the Pro- Link 9000 manual for both DDEC I&II and DDEC II& III if you need a copy.

You can connect a compatible printer or terminal ( DEC VT-100) using the RS232 port on the right side of the reader. It takes a special cable to do that (4P4C handset to RS 232 25 pin). You might possibly be able to connect to a laptop with an RS232 input and a VT-100 terminal emulator but I haven't tried that yet. It's out dated hand held technology, but very reliable. One of our resident old school computer experts might chime in and help us!

Jerry

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #66 – October 24, 2016, 02:08:27 pm

Quote from: coastprt – October 20, 2016, 07:03:40 pm

Kent,

Glad to hear all is well and Bernd reimbursed you for the problems his repairs caused and stood behind his work. What was going on back in April that caused you to have to bring it into his shop? Did he do a diagnostic test on the cylinders/injectors to determine that the head needed to be redone or the injectors were going bad? I'm amazed it ran at all with a couple of bad injectors for that long.

Thanks,
Jerry

Haven't been reimbursed yet but he has committed to do so. I sent him copies of the repair invoices explaining what they found. We agreed that I would bring him the wrong parts when we come back to NAC in November and he will write me a check then. I have had Bernd work on our coach for many years and I trust he will keep his word. If not I certainly will let you know.

I had taken the coach to Bernd back in April for routine maintenance. He noticed that one of the head gaskets was leaking and bulging so I had him replace the head gaskets, and several other PM items and to install new air bags. While the heads were off he did an inspection of the engine and gave it a clean bill of health. It appears that his parts supplier sent him the wrong parts (I call them snap rings but the mechanic in St . Louis call them keepers) that broke and started a cascade of other problems under the valve covers.

Why it ran as good as it did when I picked the coach up from Bernd was because more of the wrong parts broke as I drove it. I did let him know I thought it didn't have as much power as before as soon as we drove it home from NAC. I was to take it back to him in November for him to check it out not knowing about the potential of wrong parts breaking. Had the second injector not dropped out I think I could have made it back to NAC.

The problem wasn't fun but stuff happens. As long as I am reimbursed I am a HAPPY CAMPER.

Hope that answers your questions.

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #67 – October 24, 2016, 07:03:00 pm

Jerry it is the DDEC 1/2 and I would sure appreciate a copy of the manual.
Dick
shanahand65@gmail.com

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #68 – October 24, 2016, 08:55:16 pm

Kent,

Thanks for the explanation as to the original problem. Just a case of bad luck for all concerned. Bernd sounds like an honest kind of guy that appreciates your letting him make things right when he makes a mistake. He could have blamed it on the parts supplier and tried to "pass the buck". He obviously cares more about his reputation than the money involved.

Jerry

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #69 – October 24, 2016, 09:17:15 pm

Quote from: Dick S – October 24, 2016, 07:03:00 pm

Jerry it is the DDEC 1/2 and I would sure appreciate a copy of the manual.
Dick
shanahand65@gmail.com

Dick,

You got it!

The Pro-Link 9000 is a very powerful tool and once you learn how to use it you won't leave home without it. The user guide for the DDEC cartridge will explain all of it's features in detail. I haven't used any of the reprogramming capabilities of it but I have run cylinder cut-out and injector tests. It has a memory and you can even customize your own data list, road trip and test results to print out when needed.

Jerry

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #70 – December 10, 2016, 07:09:46 pm

Many of you wanted me to post the final results of this saga. I finally made it back to NAC last week. I took the coach back to Bernd due to an oil leak and to settle up on the summer problems. I am happy to say Bernd did exactly what he said he would. After I turned over the damaged parts so he could make a claim to his Part Supplier, Bernd gave me a check to cover all out of pocket expenses from the repair in Missouri. There was no arguing over the amount and in fact I still consider him a friend and a very honest man. He also diagnosed and fixed an oil leak at no charge to help ameliorate some of my summer frustrations. Bernd is still my mechanic in NAC,

Regarding how it happened I understand Brad's mechanic's point on some parts but I don't see how one could expect a mechanic to notice a difference of a couple of thousandths in snap rings. The parts house sold them to Bernd as the correct ones but they were not. I trust he will be able to get reimbursed by the parts supplier for the money he gave to me as reimbursement for the additional repairs and damage the wrong parts caused.

I left NAC today for Florida and the coach runs better than ever. We really love the old girl. We are grateful that NAC still has Foretravel and so many good shops to keep our old coaches running and looking like new.

Merry Christmas to all.

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #71 – December 10, 2016, 07:42:16 pm

Everyone makes mistakes. How they back it up is all that matters. Happy to hear it worked out.

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #72 – December 11, 2016, 11:22:31 am

Quote from: Kent Speers – October 24, 2016, 02:08:27 pm

Two quotes from Kent which I endorse completely from all my dealings with Bernd:

...I have had Bernd work on our coach for many years and I trust he will keep his word...
...Bernd gave me a check to cover all out of pocket expenses from the repair in Missouri. There was no arguing over the amount and in fact I still consider him a friend and a very honest man. He also diagnosed and fixed an oil leak at no charge to help ameliorate some of my summer frustrations. Bernd is still my mechanic in NAC...

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #73 – December 11, 2016, 11:29:27 am

In a case like this - it is likely Bernd takes a hit. Another reason why shop keepers hate come backs,

The best parts houses warranty the parts they sell. Generally the parts houses that lead with price, use lower quality aftermarket parts, and are more problematic getting warranty reimbursement. Policy's vary, but in the best case (we use NAPA for a lot of parts at Honest-1, the quality is good, the warranty is as good as it gets in the industry (which I will explain in a bit) and the relative hassle of warranty reimbursement is low. (I say "relative" because even NAPA has a bit of a cumbersome process to get warranty paid.)

On warranty reim bursement the best the parts houses will reimburse via a store credit the shopkeeper about 65% of the labor on the bill and the cost of the parts. So in this case, Bernd will likely get back about 2/3 of the labor on the second shop's ticket and roughly 50% of the parts value of the ticket. He might be able to get a check for this amount, but more than likely it will be a credit against future purchases.

So, in a nutshell, he is out of pocket on the reimbursement for a portion of the parts and labor (granted there was profit in the first repair that was not done correctly) and he could have a fair amount of money tied up as a future credit at his parts supplier. With us at NAPA it wasn't a big deal, lots of parts bought each day from NAPA, so credits were used up almost immediately. May not be the case with Bernd and his supplier.

This is all supposition, but it is how it warms in the car repair business. So, you can see why shop keepers hate "come backs" as much as consumers. When a firm like Bernd's just does the right thing even though it is costing them some $$$, it speaks to the integrity of the ownership.

Yes, it is a pain in the butt to have to take something back, but when thinking about repairs or mistakes, I like to recall the scripture "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". If you have never made a mistake, I guess it is fair to hold others to that expectation. Having made my share, I look at how frequent do you hear about an issue with a shop, and what is the resolution when the crap hits the fan.

My story on MOT is similar. I had them put on 8 airbags. Took it to Bernd's shop, and they punted out two of the fronts were put on incorrectly - the air valves were exposed to damage if the front tires blew, a newer mechanic at MOT had put the air lines back in a way that was more convenient, not knowing the less convenient routing was that way for a reason. MOT was closed (it was Saturday) and Bernd was trying to get me on the road with a transmission seal and other stuff. I asked him to fix the MOT created issue, which he did (his guys actually worked Sunday on a three day weekend to get me going!!!). Bernd and his guys did a very good job on the fuel line replacement, the transmission output shaft seal, 120K valve adjustment, a couple of odd and ends and the re-do of the two front air bag lines.

When I called MOT, they agreed immediately to make it right, offering a credit towards future purchases. When I said I wasn't sure how long it would be before I was back in NAC, they immediately agreed to credit the amount to my credit card. Case closed, another happy outcome from my perspective, great response by MOT and Bernd.

Others may have different experiences and perspectives, I welcome hearing them.

Glad you got it fixed Kent,I am sure the prior owner is happy that the coach is in such good hands and getting so much use.

Re: 1993 6V92 Turbo Wont Boost

Reply #74 – December 11, 2016, 12:12:54 pm

Quote from: coastprt – October 24, 2016, 09:17:15 pm

The Pro-Link 9000 is a very powerful tool and once you learn how to use it you won't leave home without it. The user guide for the DDEC cartridge will explain all of it's features in detail. I haven't used any of the reprogramming capabilities of it but I have run cylinder cut-out and injector tests. It has a memory and you can even customize your own data list, road trip and test results to print out when needed.

Jerry

Jerry owns a print shop in Gulfport and produces a manual better than the OEM supplied with the Pro-Link 9000. As you may have found out, the manual is hard to find and is quite expensive on ebay when available. He is super sharp on both the manual and the 9000 itself.

Connecting the Pro-Link is easy and just requires plugging it in and turning the coach key on. The hardest thing is going under the driver's seat to plug it in to the coach port. It can also be utilized for a 1000 fast idle, something that is not available from the cruise control on our U300s. Any Pro-Link reader (the part you look at) will work but the cartridge that slides into the back is unique for each vehicle. Either a DDEC I-II or a DDEC II-III cartridge will work with our DDEC II 6V-92TA engines. Tough to find the cartridge for a good price but with a bit of persistence, it can be done. If it does not come with the 12 pin GM to 16 pin OBD 2 adapter, here is what it looks like. Available as seen here or in a one piece unit (like I have) and costs from $10 to $60 depending on where you buy it. The under dash port can be moved a couple of inches to make it more convenient to access. Topcartool Obddiy Gm 12pin Obd2 Cable, Gm 12 Pin Obd To 16 Pin Obdii... One piece adapter example at: http://www.diagnosticsuperstore.com/p-26072-nexiq-12-pin-gm-adapter.aspx

The electronic injectors for the U300s are expensive as there are only a couple of places that re-manufacture them in the U.S. The all mechanical injectors are super cheap and I have replace all of them for the price of one electronic injector.

Will try and make a YouTube video of connections and functions but no promises as my list is very long.

Pierce

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