Another (Interior) LED Project

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Another (Interior) LED Project

November 11, 2016, 11:47:23 pm

I'm starting our gradual conversion to (interior) LED illumination. I know there have been lots of these LED projects, and I have benefited from reading about most of them. I thank those who have gone before, and documented their efforts. I am only writing up this report because I am taking a slightly different approach to doing the under-cabinet lights. I hope this will add one more way of "doing it" to the collective wisdom.
It's always nice to have a choice of several means to reach a desired end.

So what's different? Instead of gutting the existing light fixtures and inserting the LED strips, I totally removed them and built my own replacement units. I used the usual strip lights, and combined them with readily available aluminum channels with frosted covers. All the lights are still controlled by the original switches. I may have missed it, but I don't think any other Forum members have reported using this technique under the cabinets (although Roger has mentioned using the channels inside cabinets and in the storage bays). If I'm wrong, I apologize.

In our coach, the under-cabinet fluorescent lights were all made by Thin-Lite. There are 5 "long" light units; 2 in the living room, 1 in the dining area, and 2 in the bedroom. There are 2 shorter units; 1 over the hutch counter and 1 in the bathroom. I am totally replacing all of these units. Since the aluminum channel comes in 1 meter sections, I decided to make my "long" lights 1.5 meters in length. This minimized the number of cuts I had to make, and worked out nicely because the light over the hutch counter is exactly 0.5 meters long. The bathroom light is the only odd length: it is 29" long.

Photos below show the process. Numbered 1-10, left to right, top to bottom.

1. Old "long" light fixture compared to the replacement.

2. Construction steps (from bottom of photo to top): cut the channel, apply double-sided tape, cut LED strip to size, stick LED strip to tape, install the frosted cover.

3. Close-up of wiring. Soldered connection, heat shrink on wires, dab of silicon for extra support.

4. "Blind" end cap on one end.

5. Other end cap with hole for wire.

6. My complete production run of 5 "long" light units - one being tested. Using the old converter/charger out of our coach for 12V power supply.

7. One of the living room light units installed under cabinet with supplied clips - light off.

8. Same light - on. The flash kinda mutes the lighting effect.

9. Light unit on opposite side of living room - taken with available light. Closer, but still doesn't convey how nice they look.

10. Wide shot of living room - available light. Close, but light color still appears more "yellow" than it is "in person".

We are extremely happy with the way these lights look in our coach. I chose WW (3000K) light strips, and we REALLY like the look. Our interior decor is basically many different shades of brown and gold, and the WW LEDs (in OUR opinion) compliment the colors perfectly.

Parts list:

Amazon.com: LE 16.4ft 300 Units SMD 5050 LEDs Flexible LED Strip Lights,...

JVCC DC-WGT-01 Double Coated Window Glazing Tape: 1/16 in. thick x 3/8 in. x...

Amazon.com: LEDwholesalers Aluminum Channel System with Cover, End Caps, and...

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Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #1 – November 12, 2016, 12:18:34 am

Nice job Chuck I like it. Can you put a digital dimmer on them? I did that on my LED halogen replacement lites and they work really good.
JohnH

Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #2 – November 12, 2016, 08:30:50 am

Quote from: John Haygarth – November 12, 2016, 12:18:34 am

Can you put a digital dimmer on them?

Yes, in fact I have a neat little PWM dimmer sitting on my bench ready to go. So far, haven't felt the need for it on any of the lights.

Amazon.com: 12 Volt DC Dimmer for LED, Halogen, Incandescent - RV, Auto,...

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Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #3 – November 12, 2016, 08:36:53 am

Chuck,

Nice job.

How are the 1 meter aluminum channels held together to make the longer fixtures?

Assume the LED light can be cut anywhere in their 16' length and then wire just soldered to ?wire? or ?printed circuit? at the end.

Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #4 – November 12, 2016, 09:01:42 am

Brett,

1. The two sections of aluminum channel are held together in 4 ways. First, the double sided tape spans the break. Second, the LED light strip spans the break. Third, when I installed the frosted covers, I placed the longer section so it spans the break. At this point, since the assembly is very light, it is fairly rigid and can be handled (carefully) without any significant flexing. Finally, when I spaced the mounting clips, I placed one of them so that the break in the channel falls exactly in the center of the 1/2" wide clip.

2. The LED strip can be cut at any of the the "cut points", which occur every 3 LEDs and are marked with little "scissor" icons. See photo #3. You can actually solder the positive and negative power wires to the appropriate copper "dots" anywhere on the length of the strip - it does not have to be on the end. I gleaned this info from a old post by Kenhat - will try to find it and supply a link. Found it:

LED tutorial

The unit I made for the location over the hutch counter takes advantage of this fact, because a "center mount" wire worked best.

Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #5 – November 12, 2016, 09:16:43 am

Nice job, Chuck. It makes a clean looking light system. My thinking is more is always better, there are always dimmers. All of our coaches are a bit different and the best solution for your coach is the one that works for you. This a good one.

I have been using the aluminum channels for quite awhile. All of my bay lighting (6000° K) and all of the inside-the-cabinet lighting in the coach (3000°K) use channels. It make it easier to built, test and install them. There are several sources now and prices have come down some. Some have better (snugger) fitting covers than others but they all work well.

I will be interested in hearing how your dimmer works. I have a couple of these PWM dimmers and while they work they make an low level audible hum. Normally we don't hear them but on a quiet evening we can, at least Susan does.

I gave up on the crimp on connectors that attach to the strips. It only takes a half a minute or so to solder the connections and they are much more reliable. Removing a strip with a bad crimp on connection to fix it takes way more time than soldering it the first time. Wiring strips in parallel means less voltage drop and more stability than wiring the strips in series end to end.

Brett, the strips can be cut where the connection points are located, about every two inches or so. I put a short piece of heat shrink tube over the cut end or the soldered connections, just enough to cover them up.

Some of the channel suppliers include metal mounting clips and wider (3/4") clear plastic mounting clips that can be used at a joint between tow channels.

Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #6 – November 12, 2016, 09:26:56 am

Roger,

You were one of the "guiding lights" that helped me plan this project. I used many of your ideas and tips, including your recommendation for the 3000K LEDs and soldering the connections. I also found many helpful tips in old posts by Pierce, Roland, Kenhat and John H.

I will try the dimmer on one of the lights when I get a chance - will report on how it works. This stuff is all "new" to me - FUN to play with!

I ordered, along with the flat aluminum channel, a pack of "corner" channel. I have several ideas for using this shape, both inside the coach and underneath in the storage bays. More to follow...

Amazon.com: LEDwholesalers Aluminum Channel System with Cover, End Caps, and...

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Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #7 – November 14, 2016, 09:53:49 am

I started working on my "down the middle of the ceiling" lights. These I will do in the conventional manner - gut the housing and install the LED strips. Pretty simple, actually. I am using 3 rows of the WW (3000K) LEDs - we tried one with the DW (6000K) LEDs, and did not care for the way they look (to us). Photos below of my first prototype (work in progress).

Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #8 – November 14, 2016, 09:55:31 am

I have a question for the electrical gurus: is the old ballast assembly from these lights good for anything? I mean, anything other than being a ballast? I am the type of person who hates to throw away perfectly good "stuff", even if I have no immediate use for it.

NO, I'm not a hoarder...at least not in the pathological sense...I hope. Don't ask for the DW's opinion.

Anyway, just wondering if the electrical bits from the ballast could be repurposed into anything useful...you know, like a Buck Rogers ray gun or a mini particle accelerator?

Comments? Suggestions?

Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #9 – November 14, 2016, 10:06:14 am

"I have a question for the electrical gurus: is the old ballast assembly from these lights good for anything? I mean, anything other than being a ballast?" quote from Chuck

If so I have dozens to give also, plus bulb's & end fixtures

Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #10 – November 14, 2016, 10:36:57 am

Is the original fixture powered by 120 VAC, or 12 VDC?

Thanks,

Trent

Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #11 – November 14, 2016, 12:48:13 pm

I found the 3M adhesive on the back of the light strips does not hold well when inside coach temps go up. So, on the ends where the wires connect (and add some weight) I put a drop of Shoe Goo to assist the 3M in holding. I blocked the light up until the Shoe Goo had a chance to cure a bit.

Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #12 – November 14, 2016, 12:51:14 pm

The fluorescent guts are 12 volts. I pulled all of mine out and sent them to someone along with several bulbs.

Chuck, I used five strips in my gutted fixtures. Wire each of the strips in parallel rather than series (end to end). I added a second switch in the fixture itself so that the main switch supplied power to two strips and the second switch. The second switch turns on the other three strips. As I get older there is no such thing as too much light.

I stuck my strips on some thin aluminum sheet and then used double stick tape to hold those in place in the fixtures. Easier to work on and test on the bench. If I was doing more I would use something like Formica instead.

The picture is one I did with four strips. I like to cover cut ends with heat shrink tube for insulation.

I also have four complete fixtures with U shaped bulbs. Free if you need them. You pay shipping.

Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #13 – November 14, 2016, 12:56:06 pm

Many of the cheaper brands of LED strips have fake 3M adhesive backing and work poorly. I use 3/8" x 1/16" double stick glazing tape. It is the best.

JVCC DC-WGT-01 Double Coated Window Glazing Tape: 1/16 in. thick x 3/8 in. x...

Many have found that the LE brand LED strips are of higher quality and have self stick that actually works.

Amazon.com: LE 16.4ft 300 Units SMD 5050 LEDs Flexible LED Strip Lights,...

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Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #14 – November 14, 2016, 01:07:52 pm

Roger, Chuck,

What kind of power draw difference have you experienced between the LED strips and U-shaped bulbs? Obviously that is different per fixture, but any arbitrary example would suffice.

James

Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #15 – November 14, 2016, 01:47:51 pm

Quote from: nitehawk – November 14, 2016, 12:48:13 pm

So, on the ends where the wires connect (and add some weight) I put a drop of Shoe Goo to assist the 3M in holding.

Excellent tip! I have now added a blob of GOOP to the ends of the strips in my prototype. Thanks!

Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #16 – November 14, 2016, 01:53:50 pm

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – November 14, 2016, 12:51:14 pm

Chuck, I used five strips in my gutted fixtures. Wire each of the strips in parallel rather than series (end to end).
I added a second switch in the fixture itself so that the main switch supplied power to two strips and the second switch...

We will try the first light with 3 strips, and see how it works. If it is insufficient, then I will add two more strips. I am following your advice and wiring in parallel, so adding additional strips is easy. Also like the idea of a secondary switch - will use that if I add more strips.

Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #17 – November 14, 2016, 01:58:16 pm

Quote from: Blinded04 – November 14, 2016, 01:07:52 pm

What kind of power draw difference have you experienced between the LED strips and U-shaped bulbs?

All of our (older than yours) Thin-Lite fixtures took the straight fluorescent tubes, but your question is still valid. I am also curious how the old and "updated" fixtures will compare. Haven't had a chance to check, but I will.

There is a large group of members who have made this switch. I am sure some of them (Roger?) have done comparative testing.

Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #18 – November 14, 2016, 05:20:59 pm

Chuck, I'm pretty sure the ballast-in series hooked up to the warp-drive would effect a formidable《 force field 》 for those rodents...

Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #19 – November 14, 2016, 07:09:35 pm

Quote from: Blinded04 – November 14, 2016, 01:07:52 pm

Roger, Chuck,

What kind of power draw difference have you experienced between the LED strips and U-shaped bulbs? Obviously that is different per fixture, but any arbitrary example would suffice.

James

LED lighting is more efficient then incandescent or fluorescent lighting. The light color can be a warm white, more towards yellow (3000 degree K) or daylight white, more towards blue (6000 degree K). Color is a personal choice. I like Warm White inside and Cool (Daylight) white in the bays.

The LE strips mentioned vary in power used by the size of the LED elements. The bigger elements are 5050 (50 mm x 50 mm) use about 4.4 watts per foot and put out 218 lumens (quantity of light) per foot. Smaller elements like the 3538 use less energy and put out less light. it also depends on how many elements per foot.

An 18' long 2 bulb fluorescent fixture put out about 1600 lumens and use 32 watts. 2 - 18" 5050 LED strips would use 13 watts and put out 660 lumens. 4 - 18" strips use 26 watts and put out 1320 lumens. 5 - 18' strips use 33 watts and put out 1650 lumens.

So for fluorescents there is not much power savings, a bit more light but it is a easier light to live with, cooler, no noise and dimmable or adjustable by using 2 of 5 strips for example.

The round puck light in the ceiling use 10 watts. A good replacement LED puck light uses about 3.5 watts, puts out more light and is dimmable. The living room and kitchen puck lights replaced by LED puck lights saves almost 100 watts when they are on. And they are much cooler.

It is a project worth doing. A 5 M (16.4 ft) spool of LED strip light is less than $10.

Amazon.com: LE 16.4ft 300 Units SMD 5050 LEDs Flexible LED Strip Lights,...

Very good direct puck replacements are about $15

Amazon.com: ITC (69231B-3K-DB) 3" Radiance LED Overhead Light/Spring Mount:...

And Chuck is right, they last a long time.

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Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #20 – November 14, 2016, 08:22:13 pm

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – November 14, 2016, 07:09:35 pm

So for fluorescents there is not much power savings, a bit more light but it is a easier light to live with, cooler, no noise and dimmable...

One BIG advantage for us will be the greatly reduced IRRITATION factor. It seems like I was constantly having to replace those d%&# little thin fluorescent tubes. Our under-cabinet lights used the F13T5 (long) and F8T5 (short) bulbs. On our recent 5-week trip, I had to replace 6 of the long tubes, and 2 of the short ones. Even with fresh bulbs, sometimes the lights would work - sometimes they wouldn't. I became proficient at smacking the bottom of the cabinet with my hand to coax a reluctent light into operation. I don't know if our coach was particularly hard on the bulbs for some reason, or if the short bulb life we experienced is typical for that particular size.

Whatever the reason, finally having reliable lights that come on every time will be, to us, priceless!

Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #21 – November 14, 2016, 09:32:42 pm

Chuck, you might want to check voltages at your lights. If the flourescent bulbs are burning out then voltage might be off. LEDs like 12 volts and the better strings can manage a range that is typical in our coaches. Ground paths can be iffy. I notice that turning my water pump on will cause the LR and BR LEDs to blink for a fraction of a second, almost imperceptibly. You can only see it if eveything is dark. Not so with kitchen lights. So there must be some interaction going on that I have not found.

This is an effort that has big payoff in reliability and useful light levels that we are glad we did.

Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #22 – November 17, 2016, 10:24:01 am

I just finished the last of my 4 "down the center of the ceiling" light fixtures. My final design still looks the same as the photos I posted earlier, except I cleaned up the wiring on the outside of the unit, and made it more robust. Someone asked me (in a PM) why I didn't just connect both the positive and negative wires to the same end of each strip. The answer is: I like to make things complicated for myself.

No, the real reason is that I read online (while researching LED light strips) that connecting the power leads to opposite ends of the strip helps make the light output from each LED more uniform. I don't know if this is actually correct or not...perhaps it is only valid in really long strips. In any case, it isn't that hard to route the ground wire along the outside edge of the fixture, so that's what I did.

I also found a old 120V to 12V power transformer in my electrical junk box. I made up a little bench test power supply so I can check the lights before I take them out to the coach. Very handy!

Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #23 – November 20, 2016, 07:12:24 pm

I mentioned earlier that I had purchased some "quarter round" aluminum channels with frosted covers. I've been looking around inside the coach for possible applications. A recent posting by JohnFitz showing his nicely finished "custom" stair well with LED lighting got me to thinking. I decided to try a similar approach on our stairs. I made up 2 light units and stuck them (with double-sided tape) in the vertical orientation on both sides of the door opening. The size of the aluminum channel is a perfect fit in that spot - they do not stick out past the metal door frame. I wired them to operate with the original stair light switch on the wood wall just inside the door. They will be a great help in avoiding trips and falls down the stairs (as is being discussed in another current thread).

Re: Another (Interior) LED Project

Reply #24 – November 20, 2016, 07:14:36 pm

I found another application for the corner lights in the bathroom. I've never liked the "3 bulb" light over the mirror above the sink. It is terrible for shaving because all the light is above your head. All I see is shadows on my face (due, no doubt, to the great number of wrinkles). Still, it is working fine, and fits in with the overall decor, so I hate to rip it out and throw it away. I decided adding a couple small light tubes on each side of the mirror would brighten up things considerably, and allow us to retain the original light fixture. I used the double-stick tape again, to avoid drilling any holes. I think they look pretty good, and they REALLY improve the amount and direction of light. I won't have any trouble shaving with those lights on! They may be a little too bright - time will tell. If so, I can simply install a dimmer.

Working with these LED strips is really great fun. I encourage every member to buy a couple strips and do some experimenting.

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