Re: Isolator Connections Reply #25 – January 09, 2017, 08:10:46 am You also now know that your "cheap digital voltmeters" read about .5 volts lower than actual battery voltage. Good thing to know! Quote Selected
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #26 – January 09, 2017, 08:33:53 am The isolator may or may not be working, BUT YOUR CHARGING SYSTEM CAN NOT WORK CORRECTLY. With the chassis battery connected to the center stud along with the alternator B+, charging will NOT be correct. Depending on where the sense wire is:If on center stud and/or some connection between isolator and chassis battery: house battery will never get full charge. It will receive about .7 VDC LESS than the chassis battery.If on stud with house battery and/or some connection between that stud and the house bank: chassis battery will be OVER-charged by .7 VDC.Said another way, both banks need to be at the same "status"/level, as there is a .7 VDC drop in voltage across the diodes in the battery isolator. Quote Selected 2 Likes
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #27 – January 29, 2017, 09:27:32 am UPDATE!After several applications of Kroil, I was finally able to get the nut off the center stud. I had disconnected the battery from the connecting wire and put a wrench behind the lugs. It fought me the whole way, never getting loose enough to turn by hand. Somehow, the nut must have become cross-threaded. That nut has no desire to go onto the stud. I tried the nut from the adjoining stud and it is a no-go also.The stud appears to be 5/16 x 16 18 (or 24). Will use the proper die on the stud and try to "refresh" the threads. I have a very distant recollection that you are supposed to use the die backwards when trying to clean the threads. Does anyone know about that? I may try to use the proper tap to refresh the threads in the nut, but will probably just use a new one.Any thoughts on how/why this happened, and the best way to try to fix it now?Thanks,Trent Quote Selected
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #28 – January 29, 2017, 10:29:42 am Trent, first try to start the die nut on post with you hand. If not then use the t handle but be very sure you have it lined up right. Turning the die nut around is good if you just want to clean out a slightly damaged thread but yours sound like they are bad..If yu cannot cut the thread clean maybe you can use the next size down ( I think it may be a 3/8 bolt you have but not sure without looking at ours). Anyway that is what I would do if the original is not able to be cleaned upJohnH Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #29 – January 29, 2017, 10:44:13 am Trent, I have used dies to fix threads, but they aren't really optimum for it, and neither are taps the best way to refresh bolt threads as both of these are designed to cut new threads. I have one of these sets that have both male and female thread repairing sets as well as thread files which are used on bolts and studs. In fact, before I got this set, I had often used the thread file first to make it easier to get the die started straight to repair bolts and studs. I would also just toss the nut as it is easily replaceable and the stud is 5/16-18 if coarse threaded and 5/16-24 if fine. Most likely coarse threaded. If the stud happens to be stainless steel, using a die would likely be next to impossible without breaking it loose inside the isolator.DonQuote from: TulsaTrent – January 29, 2017, 09:27:32 amUPDATE!Any thoughts on how/why this happened, and the best way to try to fix it now? Thanks, Trent Quote Selected 3 Likes
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #30 – January 29, 2017, 11:54:28 am Use strong glasses and a small file to clean up the threads. Then chase threads with a die. Install new stainless nuts/washers. Betting all threads will be UNC (coarse thread).Pierce Quote Selected
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #31 – January 29, 2017, 12:59:12 pm I hesitate to use stainless nuts on any thing I might have to take apart. They have a nasty habit of spalling and then they are almost impossible to get off. There are anti-spalling coatings you can use to help prevent this. I use a plated nut after coating the stud and nut with CorrosionX. My Sterling isolator looks like it has big brass nuts. Quote Selected
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #32 – January 29, 2017, 01:42:18 pm I would not use stainless nuts either. I use brass or bronze nuts which are readily available at marine and hardware stores. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #33 – January 29, 2017, 02:02:08 pm Brass or bronze are great for electric connections and will not corrode. I would also continue to try and run a new nut on the stud. Even if its cross threaded it should become easier to turn. Take your time. Quote Selected
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #34 – February 01, 2017, 10:14:04 pm I called PowerLine (Hehr Power Systems) today to ask about disassembling the isolator to replace the center stud. He said it could not be removed the black stuff is part of the manufacturing process and cannot be undone. He said if I tried I would turn it into a brick. He said I should be able to rethread it. I told him I was having problems getting into a position where I could swing a die wrench. He said to just remove it and put it on my workbench. I removed all the cable connections and tried to remove the four (#2 square drive) screws. None of the four showed any interest in leaving. I put Kroil on all four screws, but one application did not do it. I have an impact driver from my motorcycle days. Would that possibly help to loosen them? Thanks, Trent Quote Selected
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #35 – February 01, 2017, 10:19:27 pm Trent, before you go to that extreme do you have one of the little propane torch's, and if so just heat the nuts up while trying to stay clear of the bolt part (studs). This should expand the nut a hair and they will them come off. Before it cools down spray with release stuff and heat again if needed. It will work.JohnH Quote Selected
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #36 – February 01, 2017, 11:18:34 pm John,I already have three naked threaded studs.I am now trying to remove the four small screws that hold my isolator to the "firewall" under the bed. I can then rethread the center stud, reinstall it and the cables, and be a happy camper.Speaking of happy campers, I was at Sam's Club and noticed they had some 15" x 20" x 1/2" cutting boards. They look like they would do a lot better job than the existing cruddy looking metal plates that now hold my isolator, solenoids, relays and miscellaneous stuff under the bed. Would that kind of material be up to the task, or is it too fragile?Trent Quote Selected
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #37 – February 01, 2017, 11:58:28 pm Cutting boards are typically made of a polyethylene plastic (like the marine"lumber", Starboard). The stuff is quite durable and holds screws like nobody's business but softens when heated. I would think that heating in the engine compartment and possible heat disappation by the isolator heat sink might cause it to sag over time. I am going to redo my isolator component gboard with some 3/16" or 1/4" aluminum. That area contains the isolator, two Cole Hersey solinoids, some Bosch relays, and some other assorted stuff. I will be replacing the isolator with a Sterling ProSplit-R Zero Volt Drop Marine Battery Isolator (12V, 250 Amp, 3 Output)Sterling ProSplit-R – Zero Voltage Drop Battery Isolatorand adding several other components to the mix on that board as well as the Sterling 240 Amp alternator to battery charger to the other side of that wall, so there will be a lot of moving of components around. In preparation for the fun I have removed the failing engine compartment insulation. I considered using some Starboard, but I decided on the aluminum instead... won't rust like steel and will stand up to heat as well as act as a heat sink for those electrical components.DonQuote from: TulsaTrent – February 01, 2017, 11:18:34 pmSpeaking of happy campers, I was at Sam's Club and noticed they had some 15" x 20" x 1/2" cutting boards. They look like they would do a lot better job than the existing cruddy looking metal plates that now hold my isolator, solenoids, relays and miscellaneous stuff under the bed. Would that kind of material be up to the task, or is it too fragile? Trent Quote Selected 3 Likes
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #38 – February 02, 2017, 09:08:05 am Quote from: Don & Tys (AKA acousticart) – February 01, 2017, 11:58:28 pmI considered using some Starboard, but I decided on the aluminum instead... won't rust like steel...And knowing the high quality standards of your work, it will be polished to a mirror finish before installation. Quote Selected
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #39 – February 02, 2017, 10:14:23 am I would not hesitate to just break off the screws holding the isolator in place. Worse case is you drill new mounting holes, or better yet just replace the metal panel. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #40 – February 19, 2017, 03:43:12 am FINAL UPDATE!!! I was able to get three of the four screws that attached the isolator to my coach. The head broke off of the fourth one when I tried using a pair of vice grips to remove it. Finally, I was able to take the isolator to my "workbench" (breakfast room table). After careful inspection, I discovered that one of the threads that had been under the nut had broken off. I suspect the reason it was so hard to remove was the broken thread particles were trapped under the nut and were not ready to fly the coop. Some of the threads at the end of the stud were also cruddy. I used a small triangular file to clean the threads near the end and filed the end of it to a slight taper. I was then able to get my die cutter onto it and refresh the threads. I don't mean to gloss over this activity, but it did take me several hours of work to get it done. Afterwards, I could run a new nut easily up and down the stud with my finger tips, I remounted the isolator with three new screws. the broken stud was located on the bottom side and I just used it to help locate the proper position. It provides help in the keeping the isolator from sliding down. The other three screws provide a solid grip. I attached the cables to the proper studs and the Echo charger is working properly. [Okay, okay; I am glossing over the fact that I initially had the echo charger wires on the wrong studs. This led to the green LED to flash slowly and not work properly. When I reversed them (now wired properly) the echo charger showed a steady green LED, indicating proper operation.] My cheap China LED voltmeters show about 13.7 for the coach batteries, and 13.1 for the engine batteries. Thanks for all the advice and suggestions I got from the brain trust, Trent Quote Selected
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #41 – February 23, 2017, 04:53:04 pm EPILOG!!!!! Went out to check the alternator connections to see what they read after several days. The RV is plugged into 50 amp shore power; The Echo Charger is properly connected to the engine and house battery connections at the isolator. The reading on the CCLV (Cheap Chinese LED voltmeters) was 13.41 and 13.47, respectively. The voltage on the sense/(DUVAC) connector using my CHFV (Cheap Harbor Freight Voltmeter) was 13.41; the voltage on the switch connector was zero (+/- noise) using my CHFV. Turned the ignition key to the ON position; got the sound of dash turning on, dinging, etc.. Walked back to the engine compartment and heard a motor running noise as I walked by the side of the transmission. The noise was even louder at the open engine door, but it eventually stopped. The sense connector read about 12.6 and the switch connector about 11.9. Went back to the dash; the CCLV read 12.2 for the engine. Turned the ignition key OFF and within a minute read 12.5 and 13.6. After a few more minutes, the engine battery was 12.9 and the house battery was still 13.6. Scratched my head until it started bleeding and came in to report this to my brain trust. The starter was never engaged, and the lights were off. What the heck caused the engine battery bank (three fairly new red tops) to draw down so much in the ON position? What was the blower-motor-sound back near the engine? I know I will find out more when I crank the engine on and check the readings, but I am reluctant to do that until I am ready to fill the air bags and remove the safety stands. Speaking of which, while warming up the engine, do we want low idle or fast idle? Since I know less about this stuff than most of you, I welcome any suggestions, observations, or advice on what you can determine from today's report. Thank you, Trent Quote Selected
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #42 – February 23, 2017, 05:42:19 pm Trent,With ignition just turned on, the INTAKE MANIFOLD HEATER is on. And the electrical noise was likely the electric fuel pump.That heater grid can pull a lot of amps. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #43 – February 23, 2017, 06:46:55 pm Thanks, Brett! Voltages are back to normal. Trent Quote Selected
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #44 – February 23, 2017, 11:38:20 pm Quote from: wolfe10 – February 23, 2017, 05:42:19 pmTrent,With ignition just turned on, the INTAKE MANIFOLD HEATER is on. And the electrical noise was likely the electric fuel pump.That heater grid can pull a lot of amps.Is the electric fuel pump only on the ISC? I don't seem to have one on my '99 ISM Quote Selected
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #45 – February 23, 2017, 11:52:12 pm yes ISC has that electric pump (which I changed a year ago) Dave metzger got it for me and brad delivered it to me 2yrs ago, wow how time flies.Thanks Dave, love you.JohnH Quote Selected
Re: Isolator Connections Reply #46 – February 25, 2017, 08:32:15 am No your ISM doesn't have an electric fuel pump. No lift pump just the main injection pump sucking fuel from the tank. Quote Selected
Topic: Isolator Connections